Small Space

[JohnR]

I need some help designing a layout. I've looked at Carl Arendt's site, and although there has been some inspiration, a lot of the designs there don't have the level of operation or settings I would prefer.

 

I am living in a 1 bedroom flat with my wife, so space is really at a premium. The best I can manage is approx 7 (might squeeze to 8) feet by 18 inches, including a fiddle yard. It would probably have to be a folding layout, with the fiddle yard section (on the left) folding over the scenic section (on the right) when not in use. I want a passenger station, and ideally room for a tank engine and 2 coaches, plus a little bit of freight activity. The idea of a 'bitsa' station has never appealed to me, as I enjoy operation more.

 

The setting should ideally be Southern Region, late 50's/early 60's in the Devon/Cornwall area.

 

Can anyone help?

[Pannier Tank]

Take a look here:

http://www.frankcollins.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Pen_Y_Bont_plan.htm

 

Although the above layout is slightly longer than you have available it shows what can be done in a relatively small area.

[shortliner]

If you are limited to space - as indeed I am - have a look at this [the expanded version further down the page] which has facilities for a small station and a little bit of shunting. You would have enough space to lengthen the centrepiece slightly, and it uses the minimum of turnouts which are the biggest "space-eaters" in restricted space layouts. HIH

[alastairq]

Hi.....whilst maybe a trifle too long....[the ''scenic'' portion fits your dimensions, but there isn't much left for a fiddle yard]...I have always likes a plan by Iain Rice, based upon CJ Freezer's ''Minories'' scheme.

 

This scheme can be found in the book by Iain Rice, ''Designs for Urban Layouts'', published by Atlantic

 

Under the title of ''majoring in Minories'', page 47......Iain Rice has developed the Minores theme by reducing he nimber of platforms.[to one, an island platform]...and creating a small, urban, coal yard, etc.

 

Use of slips compresses the Minories turnout area length..and there is included a run-round loop.

The theme is an outer urban commuter terminus, in steam days..with urban goods facilties.

 

all in roughly 6.5 feet, with from 1 foot to 18 inches of width [variable].

 

the exit tracks can be either singled or doubled..both are feasible with the existing pointwork...and given that Mr Rice envisaged a station building on an upper level, at one end of the platform, the scheme could be converted to a through station.

 

Operation would be, as again Mr Rice envisaged, a slick commuter operation...steam or electric, whatever the builder fancied...with frequent arrivals, prompt engine changes, and away again. with two platforms very busy [he quotes the old GE Jazz services?].....goods being in teh quiet intervals....

 

I have a scan of it..but fear I cannot put it onto this forum due to copywrite issues...[i was to attempt a Templot thing..but have yet to get my head around Templot]

[Dave777]

It appears you need to log into something for that one shortliner...?

[shortliner]

Ah, Sorry! - I thought it could be read without being a member

[shortliner]

How about a variation on this, with a couple of extra sidings http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/page59a/index.html scroll down to Maldon Market Hill (updated in scrapbook 81). you could have a second traverser at the far end and use it as a through station for both passenger and goods

[Karhedron]

Does it have to be 00? You could pack plenty into that space in N gauge (although the lack of proper SR coaches might be a bit of a problem).

[JohnR]

I'm afraid it probably does have to be 00 considering the amount of stock I already have, and indeed is already out there for modelling my preferred area.

 

I have a copy of Iain Rice's book, and the layout 'Majoring in Minories' is nice, the trouble is, I can't see it in the southern region in Devon/Cornwall. Outer suburban surrey or sussex perhaps...

 

The problem with checking Carl Arendt's site is that it is blocked at the IT deprtement here at work, and I don;t have internet at home, so can only check it occaisionally.

[Etched Pixels]

I have a copy of Iain Rice's book, and the layout 'Majoring in Minories' is nice, the trouble is, I can't see it in the southern region in Devon/Cornwall. Outer suburban surrey or sussex perhaps...

 

There are some obvious opportunities to steal "feel" from

 

Padstow

Bodmin General

Bodmin North

Bude (although the real Bude though simple was enormously long so would need a lot of cutting down)

etc

 

All are really too big of themselves but certainly compressible to get the right feel. Depending on era it's also quite easy to justify. If you look at what happened on a lot of big terminus sites most of it got turned into housing and either the station was kept or sometimes even that cut back. It's easy to imagine Bude for example having been trimmed very hard rather than closed and just the

end of the platforms kept with a new building while the rest was built over and the wharf siding removed.

 

There are quite a few potential small/thin layouts. Minories btw isn't neccessarily the best use of space because the fiddle yard eats one end. You can get nicer results in a small space with a minories type design that has the fiddle yard screened with more activities at the front (although in your case you'd need to make them robust so they folded over ok). Another example of doing that is the "Piano Line" design.

 

If you like Cornwall btw search for "St Minions" in the old rmweb - thats an interesting and incredibly short layout with short fiddle each end as well as lots of opportunity to turn it 180degrees so its viewed from the china clay side and extend that in front of the fiddle each end. Only really lets you run short trains but lots of complex activities in what for OO is a ridiculously small space.

 

(for Minories squashed using a double slip see also 'Tinories' on the Carl Arendt site)

 

There are some other good cheats to conside - casettes is one that may help you avoid losing board to fiddle sidings, another is to pick a location which is the "end" of a freight route of some form but a through passenger service with just a railcar or similar so you can hide a tiny fiddle siding at the back somewhere merely one coach long for the "through" DMU service.

 

I think you can get what you want in OO - but you might need to be smart, doing things like vanishing stuff under bridges with the other crossover implied etc..

[JohnR]

There are some obvious opportunities to steal "feel" from

 

Padstow

Bodmin General

Bodmin North

Bude (although the real Bude though simple was enormously long so would need a lot of cutting down)

etc

 

All are really too big of themselves but certainly compressible to get the right feel. Depending on era it's also quite easy to justify. If you look at what happened on a lot of big terminus sites most of it got turned into housing and either the station was kept or sometimes even that cut back. It's easy to imagine Bude for example having been trimmed very hard rather than closed and just the

end of the platforms kept with a new building while the rest was built over and the wharf siding removed.

 

 

My wife is constantly showing me many of the various small, and very well done layouts where this scenario has happened. However, it doesn't work with my preferred period, late 50's/early 60's southern region in Devon/Cornwall. Having a single car unit shuttling back and forth wouldn't hold my interest for long (probably about a week). My preferred option would be for a tank engine to trundle in with its single coach (2 coaches on summer saturdays!), run round, shunt the wagons etc and then move off.

 

There are quite a few potential small/thin layouts. Minories btw isn't neccessarily the best use of space because the fiddle yard eats one end. You can get nicer results in a small space with a minories type design that has the fiddle yard screened with more activities at the front (although in your case you'd need to make them robust so they folded over ok). Another example of doing that is the "Piano Line" design.

 

If you like Cornwall btw search for "St Minions" in the old rmweb - thats an interesting and incredibly short layout with short fiddle each end as well as lots of opportunity to turn it 180degrees so its viewed from the china clay side and extend that in front of the fiddle each end. Only really lets you run short trains but lots of complex activities in what for OO is a ridiculously small space.

 

(for Minories squashed using a double slip see also 'Tinories' on the Carl Arendt site)

 

There are some other good cheats to conside - casettes is one that may help you avoid losing board to fiddle sidings, another is to pick a location which is the "end" of a freight route of some form but a through passenger service with just a railcar or similar so you can hide a tiny fiddle siding at the back somewhere merely one coach long for the "through" DMU service.

 

I think you can get what you want in OO - but you might need to be smart, doing things like vanishing stuff under bridges with the other crossover implied etc..

 

Again, I would prefer not to have to hide half the station the other side of a bridge - the "bitsa" format, whilst making great use of space is not soemthing which appeals. A cassette based fiddle yard is probably a given, considering the space I have available - a ladder of sidings would take up too much length, and a traverser would need too much width.

[Etched Pixels]

My wife is constantly showing me many of the various small, and very well done layouts where this scenario has happened. However, it doesn't work with my preferred period, late 50's/early 60's southern region in Devon/Cornwall. Having a single car unit shuttling back and forth wouldn't hold my interest for long (probably about a week). My preferred option would be for a tank engine to trundle in with its single coach (2 coaches on summer saturdays!), run round, shunt the wagons etc and then move off.

 

In which case definitely take a look at the Piano line design. You might want to add a siding or two to it but it puts everything in the space, and hidings nothing but a fiddle track (and has scenic stuff in front of that even). Only trouble is it doesn't really fit Southern tradition. A two x 57' coach + loco Piano line fits in 3ft6 in N so a OO one should fit in 7ft providing you breathe in.

 

Remember in OO a two coach train even using 57ft stock plus loco is about 2'6" long. If you built a platform 2'6 long with a single straight track into a fiddle siding that alone is 5ft in OO.

[JohnR]

Thats why it seems quite difficult to fit everything in naturally.

[edcayton]

Please can you explain what a "piano line" is ? Also, how do I get to the old forum to look at St Minions? Thanks in advance

 

Ed

[zabdiel]

Using the wonder that is google I found LLanast (a Welsh piano-line plank). Quite a neat track plan.

[shortliner]

A little further thought suggests that a couple of small layouts, designed by Julian Andrews and appearing in Scale Model Trains away back, might solve your problem. One was called Penruan (6'), and the other St Peran(4'6"+storage). Both issues are well out of print - but a PM with your mail address will get you some assistance.

[Etched Pixels]

Please can you explain what a "piano line" is ? Also, how do I get to the old forum to look at St Minions? Thanks in advance

 

Ed

 

The old forum is at

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum

 

then in the search box you can type "St Minions"

 

The URL you want to start with is probably

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25462&hilit=st+minions&start=50

[edcayton]

many thanks for that. I had missed that due to an enforced period away from home and the computer this time last year. Still don't know what a piano line is though!

[Flying Pig]

Still don't know what a piano line is though!

See about half way down this page for a track diagram and some info on the original. It has the advantage of not hiding the part of the runround in the fiddle yard on a short layout, but to be honest, it looks rather improbable to me as a branch terminus. It can work better in other contexts though: as I remember, Allied Marine (Alan Sibley's industrial layout from the 70s) was laid out this way.

[edcayton]

Many thanks.

 

Ed

[JohnR]

I've often thought that a piano line style was best for something in an urban environment - cramped, more likely to have road overbridge etc.

[Dave777]

I remember first seeing that track plan about 12 months ago and instantly storing it away in my brainbox for further investigation. I too found the runround loop arrangement a little unusual for a branchline terminus, but the operating interest (ie, snags) it presented made me want to revisit it at a later date. Urban freight however would seem to be a more fitting location...

 

Surprised the idea of having the fiddleyard lead directly off the runround loop hasn't been used more actually. The constant need to 'complete' the loop before the fiddleyard starts always adds a bit to the length of layouts, and it would seem a perfectly good way to shorten things without resorting to traversers and the like.

[JohnR]

I remember first seeing that track plan about 12 months ago and instantly storing it away in my brainbox for further investigation. I too found the runround loop arrangement a little unusual for a branchline terminus, but the operating interest (ie, snags) it presented made me want to revisit it at a later date. Urban freight however would seem to be a more fitting location...

 

Surprised the idea of having the fiddleyard lead directly off the runround loop hasn't been used more actually. The constant need to 'complete' the loop before the fiddleyard starts always adds a bit to the length of layouts, and it would seem a perfectly good way to shorten things without resorting to traversers and the like.

 

Its the age odl problem of squeezing a quartinto a pint pot. In my case, a need for a run round loop to take 2 coaches. There are various dodges, such as having part of the loop in the fiddle yard or the "piano line", but neither of these are prototypical for the area/time I want to model.

[Flying Pig]

There are various dodges, such as having part of the loop in the fiddle yard or the "piano line", but neither of these are prototypical for the area/time I want to model.

To be fair, the part-loop dodge isn't inherently unprototypical: it's just visually incomplete. Whether you find the arrangement satisfying is another matter and one of personal taste.

 

I think you're going to have to make *some* kind of compromise, though, being as you're in the very common position of not having enough room for what you really want to do (join the club*).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*this one perhaps

[Etched Pixels]

Its the age odl problem of squeezing a quartinto a pint pot. In my case, a need for a run round loop to take 2 coaches. There are various dodges, such as having part of the loop in the fiddle yard or the "piano line", but neither of these are prototypical for the area/time I want to model.

 

I suspect the harsh reality is you either need to find a creative way to get more space (eg a fold up fiddle yard) or you'll have to go down a scale if you are not prepared to compromise.