60026to Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Does anyone know if Bachman have used a different/new type of Motor/Gear Train Mechanism on this Loco? Seems quieter and smoother than ALL my already owned Bachmann Diesel Locos. I also notice that there is virtually no overrun/coasting present (on the example I've bought). I thought it might be something to do with the Cab Lights/ Engine Room Lights drawing power, but even after switching the lights off (using the internal switch), the overrun/coasting is not present at all. No complaints or issues - just wondering. Funny that I was having the same thought earier today with the sheer 'quietness of 85026' I fitted a standard Bachmann 21 pinner and it works a treat although the coaches it had in tow looked a little strange (W&S Mk3's). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 So you're suggesting that the average British modeller will use this loco under imaginary wires, just because the idea of erecting something straight forward like Sommerfeldt catenary is too complex? Even though this system is continental it can be made to look very British and two types of contact/messenger wire are available (standard and 0.5mm). To keep costs down one can buy a few rtr masts and scratch build the rest from brass using the SF masts as "templates". If the average modeller (like me) is more adventurous that person can scratch build the entire system to fine scale standards using hard drawn 0.3mm nickel silver wire (under tension) and brass section, as I taught myself to do many years ago with no previous experience. If hoards of average continental modellers can knock up an OLE system from rtr components why can't your average Brit? OLE is becoming more and more evident in the UK as well so it is quite possible that more OLE rolling stock will be produced in 4mm, as the manufacturers run out of diesels to produce. In my experience, the average buyer expects something they can quickly plonk in place on an existing layout without much thought, which is fine if you've built the Hornby no.6 trackplan and can order masts and wires to suit, but less so when realities such as mast spacing and clearances are considered. And not so long ago you'd hear numerous sources claim overhead stock would never sell without catenary from the same manufacturer.... Fortunately, modelling atitudes seem to have matured to the point where a loco can be accepted for what it is, and if having to wait until now means getting one to this standard, then I think that wait has been worthwhile. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hi all, just thought I'd pitch in with where my nice new 85 is at. Don't think I've done anything detail wise that hasn't been covered here by some of the other offerings but I've begun the weathering stage. Still got powders to do yet to bring out bogie and underframe detail but pleased with how its coming along so far. Details that have been added for reference, Air horn covers on bufferbeam, triangle steps to bufferbeams, ETH socket from a Heljan detail pack I had lying around, pipwork in corridor windows, driver painted up with better face proportions and a high vis jacket. The pan has also been tweaked as mentioned earlier to keep the head level at all times. Having seen the pictures I am considering Jims advice on changing the buffers as the heads do look rather thick. Worse on pictures though I think. I'll do my special buffer greasing and see how I feel after that. Anyway heres a few pics. Excuse the quality as they are taken on my phone in poor half 11 light! Cav 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forest2807 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 They are looking very nice Cav..... Is that a trick of the light making the bodyside double arrows take on a red tint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thanks for the positive! Yes its a trick of the light, the arrows are etched and are reflecting the orange wall opposite in my dining room!! The shot looking the other way doesn't have this so appears normal. I am contemplating painting the etched arrows silver rather than leaving the stainless finish as the prototype ones are not shiny in the slightest, especially towards the end of their lives which is when my layout is set. I don't know yet. I may just leave them. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Cav - the weathering really makes it look the part - great job!! Hope this isnt considered off topic but I can't figure out how to do this: "The pan has also been tweaked as mentioned earlier to keep the head level at all times" - I've tried to figure it out from the various posts but am probably being dim - any chance of an idiots guide as to how to do this?! Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Cheers Phil, Im liking the roof weathering in particular. The pan is simple to do. I took mine off of the model to do it though as it makes life easier. Just crack the glue with a twist of the screwdriver to pop it free. The mounts with the insulators on are seperate units and will remain on the model. The issue with how it rides is that Bachmann have designed the pan wrong at the head. The little eye for the wire to fit into is above the head pivots which means as the pan goes down it pushes the head away when it should pull it to keep it level. All I did was move the wire to the longer eye to the side which is used as Jim mentioned to hold the pan down. The wire will need to have its length tweaked a little to get tge pivot right but its easy enough once the pan is off. This then shifts the wire to the opposite side of the pivot and reverses the motion. Of course the pan will no longer lock down but I wont ever need it to so its fine by me. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Looking good Cav. I will use your ETH socket idea. Regarding the pipework in the corridor window I have been looking at mine again with fresh doubts and going back and forth between photos of the real locos wondering if the 1mm wire I have used is slightly too thick - is that pipe really 3 inches in diameter I keep asking myself. I dont think it can be. I might look at using 0.8mm (or even 0.5mm) wire this will not only look a little better but it should sit on a less corner to corner (of the window) position and also it will allow the "pipe" to sit lower in the window too (in the prototypical position) and not cause any refitting problems with the body to the chassis which was my initial concern. Looking at one of my models there is about 1-2mm of space between the 1mm wire and the window glazing so a new wire has room to run over the top of the exhauster for a more authentic look. Will have another go at it and post up a fresh photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Thanks Cav - will have a go when I get home this evening - presumably its easy enough to glue the pan back on? Yes I like the roof weathering too!! Incredible that these start life with pale grey roofs and yet I always assumed they were painted dark grey/brown when it is in fact layers of grime! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg81 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Well my 85 arrived on Saturday, and it is superb! One thing that drew my attention was the pantograph. Are they meant to be permanently raised? Can't figure out how to fix it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 One thing that drew my attention was the pantograph. Are they meant to be permanently raised? Can't figure out how to fix it down. As others have mentioned, it clips into place with a bit of gentle persuasion. I must confess I've been loathe to handle the pan on mine too much in case I break or damage it. It's also set me thinking about an opportunity for the cottage industry after-market. Given the increase in interest, would it be feasible to produce an accurate (in looks and operation) and relatively robust pantograph? I get the distinct impression that in 4mm you can have accurate or robust, but not both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I thing the delightful light sprung nature is fooling you into thinking it isnt robust. The pan is of all metal contruction and has withstood a fair bit of tugging about while I was setting it up. very nice pan imo. Cav 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I get the distinct impression that in 4mm you can have accurate or robust, but not both. Lets not cast any doubts over the Bachmann pan just yet - its just too soon for that. I think the guys who have Bee Lane have a couple of 85s now and if they run their models extensively then this could be a good barometer as to the durability of the pans used under tension with catenary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Does anyone know if Bachman have used a different/new type of Motor/Gear Train Mechanism on this Loco? Seems quieter and smoother than ALL my already owned Bachmann Diesel Locos. I also notice that there is virtually no overrun/coasting present (on the example I've bought)... The view Jim posted of the gear train as seen from thebogie underside looked very much standard. One refinement which should make this loco slightly quieter is pick up through the bearings, rather than by wipers on wheelbacks. But that said the more recent design diesel types I have from Bachmann are very quiet (DP1, class 47) little more than wheels on rails noise at low speed with the addition of motor hum at higher speed. The near absence of coasting might mean that there are no flywheels? Looking elsewhere I was suprised to find no flywheels in the class 15 from Heljan which is my most recent bogie power purchase, but this is not at the expense of running smoothness. Maybe with the general adoption of DCC manufacturers are looking at the potential for cost savings by leaving out components which are now not really necessary; BEMF decoders being more than adequate to the task of providing the smoothing previously obtained mechanically with flywheels? What does the class 85 diagram show? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 What does the class 85 diagram show? Twin flywheels. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by reproducing the scanned image below: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Cav - lovely work there on your pair of fives, in fact seeing what you've done with the 'late period' version is making me want to do one circa 1980, as well as the early blue E3058 I've ordered for the mantlepiece.... sometimes not having a layout does have it's advantages! Time to dig out the 1978 - 82 photos methinks Edit - I take it the roof weathering was a mask off and spray job...? Looks bang on whichever method you used. Edited May 21, 2012 by Rugd1022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 So very much to Bachmann's standard template for centre motor both bogies driven chassis. The lack of coasting observed by Lokomotivfuhrer is then most likely down to some stiffness in the gear towers ( full of grease is one possibility ) and this will likely improve as the loco acquires running time. A BoBo like the class 24/25 chassis (which must be dimensionally pretty similar) will once running freely coast somewhat over a metre from full speed on a nominal 12V DC supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Cav - lovely work there on your pair of fives, in fact seeing what you've done with the 'late period' version is making me want to do one circa 1980, as well as the early blue E3058 I've ordered for the mantlepiece.... sometimes not having a layout does have it's advantages! Time to dig out the 1978 - 82 photos methinks Edit - I take it the roof weathering was a mask off and spray job...? Looks bang on whichever method you used. Thanks for the thumbs up. It is in fact just one loco numbered differently on each side but dont tell anyone shh. At exhibitions only one side of the loco is ever seen so gives me a chance to run two numbers for the price of one. The roof was done in 3 stages. First was a dark brown wash into all of the nooks and crannies to give dirt/false shadow prior to the spray stage. Then the roof was sprayed with a lightish dirt colour using a light coat with a dual action airbrush. Youd struggle to do this with a single action as youd get too much paint on. Then again with the dual action add darker brown around the details. A little whiz around with a thinners soaked paint brush to clean the insulators a bit and youre done. Cav Edited May 21, 2012 by RBE 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Time to dig out the 1978 - 82 photos methinks... I'm going to be basing my 85 on the image below, taken in August 1981. I noted that the Model Rail review suggested an etch is to be produced of the horn grille covers, one of which is clearly visible in this shot. Jim S-W's chopped up cotton bud stem looks pretty convincing though! [Edit for errors} Edited May 21, 2012 by Trevellan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Well my 85 arrived on Saturday, and it is superb! One thing that drew my attention was the pantograph. Are they meant to be permanently raised? Can't figure out how to fix it down. As others have mentioned, it clips into place with a bit of gentle persuasion. I must confess I've been loathe to handle the pan on mine too much in case I break or damage it. Without going too off topic I seem to be having the same problem with my Class 350. I trust 'a bit of gentle persuasion' will work there as well. Edited May 21, 2012 by jonathan452 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) c.1980 - Stoke? by 53A Models, on Flickr Edited December 15, 2012 by Andy Y Image removed due to copyright dispute. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Nice find Mike... and it's definitely Stoke There were still plenty of AC Electrics of various type still running with the '0000' headcodes well into 1980... I guess we'll have to wait for Irwell Press to do 'The Book of the AL1s-6s' for the definitive dates though... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm going to be basing my 85 on the image below, taken in August 1981. I noted that the Model Rail review suggested an etch is to be produced of the horn grille covers, one of which is clearly visible in this shot. Jim S-W's chopped up cotton bud stem looks pretty convincing though! [Edit for errors} Was going to mention it was Jims cotton buds. I did steal his idea for mine though as I was about to cut some brass tube up. The cotton bud was a much easier option. Cav 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 dont think ive seen many pics of rail blue full yellow ends with the original crest rather than the doule arrow one which Bachmann are doing with E3056, but here is one. Stockport, 13th April 1968 by Kingfisher 24, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) 03/03/1981 - Wolverhampton. by 53A Models, on Flickr Edited December 15, 2012 by Andy Y Image removed due to copyright dispute. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now