Riverside Museum

[Stewart]

Visited the new Riverside museum on a very rainy Monday this week.

 

Started the day by getting the underground to Byres Road and walking down to a pleasant early lunch in the University Café. Continued my approach on foot via the site of Tesco’s cultural vandalism that was the demolition of Patrick Central station building last year, down Ferry Lane and under the Expressway to the concourse of the new museum.

 

The museum is easily accessible of foot from the subway stations at Byres Road, Partick and Kelvin Hall. There is also a No.100 bus, which runs from George Square, which drops you off at the museum (we got this bus back to George Square).

 

I would start by suggesting that anyone who seriously/studiously wants to take in this new attraction waits until the schools go back in late August. That’s not an anti-children rant – I was there with three adults and three children between 7 and 11. It’s just that the museum was mobbed and I doubt that anyone could give it a fair assessment in that melee.

 

I plan to go back for a more sober assessment but I’ll give you my reflections thus far.

 

On first impressions I like the building. I am an architect (thought I’d best confess) and like the wave image evoking the meeting of the Kelvin and Clyde, the wonderful framed views of the river from the interior, the zinc roof and even the top-lit Corian pigs ear stair handrails (wish I could afford them on my buildings!).

 

But I found the green interior colour oppressive – it was something of a relief to enter one of the white painted staircases! For me the buildings biggest failing is the lack of a formal entrance space. You enter through the glazed façade and seem to be immediately confronted with the back end of a tram. The space fairly assaults the senses, maybe its intentional but on the day I visited it was a typically Glaswegian bank holiday and hordes of drookit families were taking off their jackets and trying to work out where the coatroom was. All of this was taking place just inside the main door in what is the main museum space. It seemed that a calmer space, which would allow for jacket removal, cloakroom/bag drop, getting your guide and the like before then going through to the “wow†space was missing.

 

Much of the display info boards are electronic a bit like I-pads where you touch the screen to access info and images. These are great but when the museum is mobbed as it was on Monday there was constantly people hovering for their turn at a board/screen.

 

Wall of Cars – I can’t decide on this. I like the overall image of the wall of cars and the visual screens where you can choose to see more details of each care are great. But can’t help but feel a bit of a sense of loss for the proximity that you could get to the cars in the Kelvin Hall.

 

Ship model conveyor belt – I really liked this. Again touch screens let you access additional views and details. What didn’t make sense was why there were ship models downstairs as well; QE2 (?) and the Queen Mary seem placed in a somewhat arbitrary manner downstairs in what is an already overcrowded main hall. Maybe it’s because so much of the upper level is taken up by a coffee shop, which is additional to the ground floor café?

 

Main Hall – someone writing in the letters page of a recent Herald newspaper suggested the Main Hall looked a bit like a very shiny Steptoe’s Yard when viewed from the walkway bridge overhead. I found it hard to disagree. Individual exhibits are nicely displayed but overall it lacks the simple cohesiveness of the Kelvin Hall where all the locos were displayed together, all the trams were together, etc. Looking at the South African loco and the NBR Glen I couldn’t help wondering where the Jones Goods and the Caley loco were but don’t worry you’ll bump into them around the corner! Again the sheer volume of exhibits on display assault the senses.

 

Street Re-creation – I thought this was great particularly the café, the Mitre Bar and the subway station/ cars.

 

The shop looks and feels like an afterthought.

 

Overall it’s something of a mixed bag – both building and exhibits. I think it will repay further visits when you can hear yourself think. The Kelvin Hall was like a well-loved old Uncle of a museum. I didn’t expect the same love affair from Riverside on our first date but I am willing to give her a second date.

 

On our second outing I’d like to arrive by boat. There is a new Govan Ferry from the opposite bank or I fancy making use of the free parking at Braehead and taking the riverboat from Braehead to the new pontoon at the new museum.

 

Wait until September and give it a try avoiding Bank Holidays!

 

Stewart Glendinning

 

Ps Entry to the museum is FREE! Thank You Glasgow City Council!!!!

[ardbealach]

If you want to see a proper railway museum - go to the SRPS Museum at Bo'ness. GNSR 49 is there along with MR Compound 1000 and stuff you can touch and get up close to, all decently laid out with some kind of logic. If only 103, 123 and Glen Douglas were there with 49 "The So'jer"!

[pH]

I visited here yesterday. I managed to spend 2 hours in it without much difficulty, but I have to say that, overall, I was disappointed. Of the reports others have written, I agree most with 'Scotcent' in post#4 above. I think the main thing was that I was going to it expecting to see a transport museum and remembering the Kelvin Hall and Coplawhill museums, whereas it is a more general "Museum".

 

Some of the gimmicks are pointless - do you really need to see the Parsonage dinghy rocking? I thought the arrangement of the 'car wall' was awful - the information plaques are on the bottom of the wall, from where all you can see of the cars on the top row is the undercarriage. So you have to read what the cars are, then step back several yards to see them. The bike display is equally awkward. The overall arrangment of exhibits seems pretty haphazard - locos in 3 different areas, trams scattered about, ships generally close together but with odd 'outliers'. But that may be seen to be more acceptable to general museum visitors, rather than those with fairly specific interests. And I was surprised that there is only one bus in the place - surely they have kept more than that?

 

Positive things - I do like the building from the outside, the fact that it's free is great, and it did seem to be drawing a lot of visitors. If the 'target audience' is the general public, rather than those with narrower interests, then it is a success.

 

Incidentally, has anyone else noticed that the buses in the mural in the underpass beneath the Clydeside Expressway are shown as left-hand drive?

[darrel]

i have been going to the transport museum for over 35 years since i was in my pram.

i went to the new museum the week it opened I walked out in disgust and will never be back. my letters of complaint were met with standard letters.

it has been a waste of money that has made a great museum rubbish

[Mac]

i have been going to the transport museum for over 35 years since i was in my pram.

i went to the new museum the week it opened I walked out in disgust and will never be back. my letters of complaint were met with standard letters.

it has been a waste of money that has made a great museum rubbish

 

Darrel.

 

I don't rate the museum very highly, but not to the same extent as you.

If you don't mind; could you list some of the points you made in your letters?

 

Mac.

[darrel]

here is the letter I sent them in full

 

I have been going to the museum of transport ever since I was a wee boy. In fact one

of my first words was “eeum” I always enjoyed my visits. When I first saw the

plans for the new museum I thought it looked awful I emailed the museum and told

them of my concerns. They didn't bother to reply back.

I visited the new museum for the first time today and it was worse, much worse than

I had first thought. Things are not exhibited as a museum piece they are exhibited

as an art work. There are cars 40 foot up a wall where it is impossible to see them

ship models 15 foot up in a case where you can only see the bottom of them,. Bikes

upside down hanging from the roof,. A steam loco sticking out a wall impossible to

photograph. What utter stupidity.

There are a lot of important exhibits no longer on display several locomotives,

buses, trams and underground cars. The old underground station in the Kelvin hall

was fantastic the new one is utter rubbish.

Ship models on a conveyor belt like a maritime version of the generation game

honestly which moron came up with that? The new street scene yes you can go inside

the shops but it doesn't look as good as the old street scene.

There are a lot of exhibits that have nothing at all to do with transport what is a

zebra doing there? Yet there are many transport exhibits no longer there the model

of the blue train for example.

Hundreds of millions spent to have the same floor space with loads of exhibits no

longer on display. And the ones that are on display are displayed badly. If the

building had not been built as such an odd shape they could have increased their

floor space.

I am so angry and annoyed that they have taken a great museum and made it into

something so terrible. Much worse than what it was before. In fact it is the worst

museum I have ever been to.

I have made hundreds of visits since I was young but I will never be back again.

Whoever is responsible for this complete shambles and waste of money should be

sacked I could have done a better job for half the price.

[Mac]

Excellent letter Darrel.

Totally agree with you.

 

I had to laugh at your comment about the maritime version of 'The Generation Game'.

Next time I'm there I'll be expecting Bruce Forsyth to jump out!

 

I do plan on giving the place another chance as I want to see what it's like when the crowds

of school kids aren't there. I also want to see what their archive facilities are like.

 

Thanks for posting .

 

Mac.

[darrel]

i'm not sure they have a archive on site however there is the Glasgow museums resource center at nitshill. you can make an appointment and its free. i had a look at some of the stuff there a few months ago they have a huge room full of ship models many of which have never been on display. which makes the new riverside museum all the more frustrating since it has less on display than before.when they should have had more on display.

[Mac]

i'm not sure they have a archive on site however there is the Glasgow museums resource center at nitshill. you can make an appointment and its free. i had a look at some of the stuff there a few months ago they have a huge room full of ship models many of which have never been on display. which makes the new riverside museum all the more frustrating since it has less on display than before.when they should have had more on display.

 

Thanks for the info' about Resource Centre.

 

Mac.

[Mac]

Saw this review of Riverside (August)...

 

 

Visited the new transport museum today, and I'm sorry to report that its not as good as the hype would suggest.

 

Firstly, the exhibits are scattered seemingly at random with no obvious themed areas, like in the old museum.

The actual design of the building makes finding your way round quite difficult, due to its odd shape.

 

Signage is very poor. I had to refer to the map to find the stairs to the upper level. And its even worse when looking at exhibits on the "motorbike wall" for example, as all the information is on a single sign at the end of the display, rather than having individual signs for each exhibit. Same goes for the car wall. On the top shelf of which the cars are very difficult to see.

 

The Clyde room has been replaced by a moving display of ship models which made me dizzy! And again, you have to wait for the ship to pass a TV screen to read about it.

 

Then my biggest moan, the "missing" exhibits.

 

While there are a few new exhibits like the South African steam locomotive and Robbie Coltrane's Jeep, there are a few old favourites that have disappeared, including the carriage from the Royal train and the ex-SSEB fireless loco.

I was hoping that the new museum would be bigger and would allow more exhibits to be displayed, but when you average out the losses and gains, I don't think the new museum has any more than the old one. And there's still no Stonefield!

 

And the men's loos only have one cubicle each and the cafe is far too small. Which wouldn't be so bad on a dry day, as there are several burger vans in the grounds. But it was raining outside today, so I didn't fancy dining al fresco.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what he means by "there's no Stonefield"... but after looking at images of the old museum, I can see the marked difference in how the ship models and vehicles were displayed.

 

Mac.

[davefrk]

Saw this review of Riverside (August)...

 

 

Snipped

I'm not sure what he means by "there's no Stonefield"... but after looking at images of the old museum, I can see the marked difference in how the ship models and vehicles were displayed.

 

Mac.

 

Hi Mac, I think the poster was referring to the 'Stonefield' truck, Glasgow Museums have one in store but I don't think it's ever been on display. They were a type of Scottish built all wheel drive 4x4 or 6x6 truck that were/are used as airport fire tenders and rescue vehicles etc. Last time I saw it the drive train was all in pieces so it couldn't move.... The Royal saloon referred to was on loan from the NRM and was returned and then sent to the Severn Valley Railway for display. I can't possibly comment on the style of the new museum as I was involved with the conservation of some of the larger objects but ''it's not a transport museum it's an art gallery'' has been said so many times by so many people.......

 

Regards,

Dave Frk.

[66C]

HI Dave

 

The Stonefield has certainly been on display - I think though it was back in the days of the original Transport Museum at the Tramway.

 

A look on Google will reveal plenty of information.

 

Regards.

[Western Scottish]

Also missing is a Coronation tram , which is as significant to Glasgow Transport history as the Blue Trains were. Its a slap in the face for people who struggled to preserve the tram or keep it from the scrap man for the last 49-50 years that it is not displayed.

 

I concurr that what we have is some sort of trendy gallery and not a Transport Museum as such. However it could be that this is what Joe Public wants rather than something that goes into the nth degree in history. As a transport enthusiast it does rather seem to be a shame though.

[bahram]

Living a short distance away I thought it was time for a visit and I agree thoroughly with "Lochty No More" all the so-called artists/designers have made a total pigs ear (and that's polite) of it, they did the same to Summerlee and ruined a good Museum. By the way if anyone wants a good laugh, or even strange looks from the Museum staff, try asking what happened to the model railway that used to be at the original Transport Museum at what is now called the Tramway Theatre. The layout was, I believe, was donated by a modeller's widow from the borders, and the layout was of Carlisle Station. Originally 3-rail the stock was mostly scratch built of pre-grouping stock, many of us on the AMRSS Committee, under the guidance of the late Billy McMillan, converted 2 running lines to 2 rail this would be back in the late 70s.

[Mac]

Also missing is a Coronation tram , which is as significant to Glasgow Transport history as the Blue Trains were. Its a slap in the face for people who struggled to preserve the tram or keep it from the scrap man for the last 49-50 years that it is not displayed.

 

I concurr that what we have is some sort of trendy gallery and not a Transport Museum as such. However it could be that this is what Joe Public wants rather than something that goes into the nth degree in history. As a transport enthusiast it does rather seem to be a shame though.

 

There's something that appears like a Coronation Tram(I think) in the main entrance area, though the old collection had a couple of trams that look similar.

 

Unfortunately; the new venue appears to be too small to house the original collection of transport vehicles.

That would account for cars being mounted half way up the walls.

[Stewart]

My old architectural professors at the GSA use to espouse the theory of architectural form following function. A theory first coined by the American architect Louis Sullivan in the late 19thC.

 

Sadly at Riverside the function – display of the transport collection – has been shoehorned into a building where the form has been dictated by an albeit poetic response to the site where the Kelvin and Clyde rivers meet.

 

The architect Zaha Hadid often comes across in interviews as a talented if somewhat domineering individual. I can just imagine the client presentation of what was to be delivered to the great and good of Glasgow City Council and the assembled cooncilors being too feart to point out to the good lady architect that said museum is a few 100 square feet short of what they require for their cars and trams!

 

It may yet grow on us I hope.

 

As an aside Ms Hadid has just won the Royal Institute of Architecture’s Stirling Prize for the best building of 2011 for a new school in London. Maybe there’s some temporary classroom out the back to accommodate the kids they couldn’t fit in the school!

 

http://www.architecture.com/Awards/RIBAStirlingPrize/RIBAStirlingPrize2011/EvelynGraceAcademy/EvelynGraceAcademyrunningtrack.aspx

 

Regards,

 

Stewart

[davefrk]

Quote:- As an aside Ms Hadid has just won the Royal Institute of Architecture’s Stirling Prize for the best building of 2011 for a new school in London. Maybe there’s some temporary classroom out the back to accommodate the kids they couldn’t fit in the school!>

Nice one Stewart, ....... On the tv program about the new museum one of the proud cooncilors said there were more objects on display

than in the old museum, Aye,okay, but most of them are either up on the wall or in their boxes in the model shop.... There's certainly less of the big objects on show, e.g. Steam rollers, traction engines, lorries, buses, trams, certain cars and not forgetting loads of horse drawn objects.

 

Dave.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

We had a second visit last week, it was a lot quieter than the first, the tram outlined in the pic is the one in the new museum I'd say?

(see also pic on page 1 this thread)

 

Only really got family photos unsuitable for going on the www

 

We did find a better place to look at the rotating ship models which we didnt find on the first visit.

- its the inability to get close up to the cars and bikes

- yes the positioning of the GWSR tank is odd to say the least

- you would be very disappointed if you wanted to look at a certain car, or bike which then turned out to be about 50 ft up on the wall!

but think I made that point the first time!

[Western Scottish]

Indeed, the one outlined in the pic is a "Cunarder" tram from after the war . The tram behind is the "Coronation", which was actually a much more significant step forward in tram design for the period. My main point was it was thought worthwhile saving for the original two Transport Museums , why not the third?

[david12345]

I managed to finally get in the museum 2 Saturdays ago. My biggest gripe was the tiny car park, with a constant queue of traffic circling for that elusive space and then you need to contend with 4 traffic wardens prowling around dishing out tickets, seems to be an easy shift for them. With all the waste land surrounding you would have thought the car park could have been made larger, as all the roads surrounding have double yellow lines, you need to park there. I know that I am being "encouraged" by our esteemed leaders in Glasgow City Chaambers and Edinburgh to use the public transport but after 20 years in the industry and with 2 under 5`s their encourangement falls on deaf ears.

 

The museum was enjoyable for the kids but it seemed overwhelmed and cramped for myself and my views are similar to previous posters.

 

To much on an iconic design and forgetting that it is a shelter for what is inside, I suspect the exhibits will still be around long after the building is gone.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

They must be doing something right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-22587979

[ian@stenochs]

They must be doing something right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-22587979

Hi,  

No one I know, who has visited the Riverside, has had a very positive response to the layout of the exhibits. It is impossible to closely examine most of what is on show and the 'extra' illustrations available are no substitute to a close look at the real thing.   I rather think that the award was made by the 'Arty types' rather than anyone with a technical interest in transport.

 

Regards,

 

Ian.

[asa]

Ians right there,the main concern was it had to be "iconic" it's the same with everything nowadays including squinty bridges!The function of the building does'nt seem to matter so long as it's iconic,and that means buckets on floors to catch the rain from leaky roofs.

[scotcent]

The  real  tragedy  is  that  because  they  spent  £47m  on  it  there's  not  the  slightest  prospect  of  any  better  museum  being  built  in  my  lifetime --- or  my  childrens'.

 

Allan  F