Controllers best for sound

[superkev]

Hi

I have a NCE powercab and for what I do im very happy with it apart from one feature which I find truly annoying.

That is that only Functions 0-9 status are displayed in the screen and it requires the enh key to be pressed to diplay but not change higher functions. A return to the original screen is required to change things

With sounds etc extending towards the 20 mark I find this a pain. The way of accessing the highr functions is odd too.

 

I havent looked at controllers for a while but one with a screen that shows more function status along with direct key access like (press 1 the 8 for 18) whould be handy.

There was a table of features somewhere on the net but I cant find it.

Strange that NCE Lenz MRC etc to me never seem to move on with new models and with Hornby catching up fast they had better watch out I think.

Kev

[RedgateModels]

Dynamis is great for sound fitted locos first ten functions directly accessible and you can set each function for each loco latch or toggle depending on how the sound works

Shame about the infra red wireless though

[Nigelcliffe]

The Digitrax DT400/402 have access to Functions F0 to F12 without use of "shift" keys. But the change is marginal compared to other makers offering F0-F10.

 

At the top-end of the price range, Zimo probably does what you ask with its latest throttle. I think a Zimo system is in the same ball-park price range as an ESU ECoS.

 

 

Going to software throttles may help. The smartphone (iPhone etc..) throttles options allow direct access to function keys with labels for each function (ie. it says "horn", "brakes", etc), and show the current state of every function key, allow them to be latching or non-latching, etc...

These show the way forward for throttles, rather than the very high cost of designing hardware throttles which will have very low sales. Currently, with the exception of the ECoS, its necessary to have a PC in the middle of the system to use a smartphone throttle. However, both Lenz and Digitrax have announced interface units which will remove the necessity to run a PC in the middle, both makers have this autumn as release date. (And both makers have a track record of missing release dates for some product announcements by years, so I would exercise caution on the dates).

 

 

- Nigel

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

both makers have this autumn as release date. (And both makers have a track record of missing release dates for some product announcements by years, so I would exercise caution on the dates).

 

And in the case of one of them, taking another few years to sort out the bugs!!

[superkev]

Thanks

As I said with the number functions used are increasing all the time and the manufacturers seem a bit slow off the mark with enhanced versions of there cabs.

Some of the tiny 1 2 and 3 line minimalistic LCD display's even on quite expensive units look positivly ancient.

 

The PDA/Smart phone route looks a tempting option for the quality display alone.

 

Didnt I read somewhere theres some sort of dispute between Lenz and Zimo re some software and the DCC open source standard.

Kev

[Nigelcliffe]

 

Didnt I read somewhere theres some sort of dispute between Lenz and Zimo re some software and the DCC open source standard.

Kev

 

The row is over RailCom.

 

As RailCom has been "next year's great thing" every year of the last decade, and in practise offers very little each year, I don't think its anything for most users to worry about.

 

RailCom is covered by a Lenz patent. In the past, Lenz has discussed RailCom with the NMRA with a view to get it within the NMRA standards. In the past, Lenz has granted no-cost licenses to use RailCom. But, if Lenz can threaten to withdraw the right for another maker to produce stuff with RailCom, then clearly RailCom is not an open standard element.

 

 

- Nigel

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Lenz has granted no-cost licenses to use RailCom. But, if Lenz can threaten to withdraw the right for another maker to produce stuff with RailCom, then clearly RailCom is not an open standard element.

 

 

- Nigel

 

Digitrax LocoNet is only available if you pay a license fee. It seems to work quite well and quite a few around the world have invested in that. CML springs to mind in the UK.

 

Most of the problems with Lenz and RailComm is purely that Lenz is absolutely nowhere sales penetration wise in the States.

[michaelp]

Dynamis is great for sound fitted locos first ten functions directly accessible and you can set each function for each loco latch or toggle depending on how the sound works

Shame about the infra red wireless though

 

I use Dynamis which as you say is great for sound locos, I have to say, I've never had any issues with signal loss with my Dynamis.

[Grovenor]

As RailCom has been "next year's great thing" every year of the last decade, and in practise offers very little each year,

This is IMHO, because no one has yet found any desirable functionality that Railcom can provide. It is a solution looking for a problem.

Regards

Keith

[Ed-farms]

ESU's ECoS is one of the best controllers for loco functions on the market. Each function can be given an icon on the screen so you know what it does as per this shot http://www.hobbytreinen.nl/50200-ECoS-central-station-pi-730.html?invis=2&osCsid=he8evluso9budusi4924qcsa97 and each function can be set to permanent so you have to press to start and press to stop or momentary so you only have to press to start. Although it is pricey at over £500 it is worth it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

In the past, Lenz has discussed RailCom with the NMRA with a view to get it within the NMRA standards.

I'm sure you're behind the drag curve on that one Nigel?

IIRC, after lots of talking, RailCom was adopted as the NMRA standard for Bi-direction communication a couple of years ago.

It's published there in the S&RP's.

 

 

Most of the problems with Lenz and RailComm is purely that Lenz is absolutely nowhere sales penetration wise in the States.

Again you are way off the mark David.

While Lenz is nowhere as big as Digitrax, CVP Easy DCC or NCE in thew USA, they still have a fairly sizeable user base.

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember they may be bigger than MRC in that companies home market.

Of course we're talking about a much larger numbers of DCC users than over here, where Lenz's quite small market share still amounts to quite a lot.

IIRC, the USA is Lenz's main sales market.

Incidentally, their US distributor is American Hobby Distributors, who many of us know in another guise as Tony's Train Exchange (a sister company).

 

 

This is IMHO, because no one has yet found any desirable functionality that Railcom can provide. It is a solution looking for a problem.

That's often the feeling Keith; but I wonder if those who think that are looking down the wrong end of the telescope?

If anything, RailCom is an enabler and many things are possible.

 

For example, many of us agree that 3rd party equipment such as Smartphones and other touch devices may be the future, because they allow enhancements and development of the user interface at an affordable cost.

With ECoS, Lenz and Digitrax, there is no need for a separate computer running software to allow these devices to work with the DCC system. However, for more extended operation, a separate software package is still needed. One of the potential uses of RailCom is that it will allow some more of the functions carried out on a separate software package, to be carried out in the handset (e.g. Tablet PC, iPad or Smartphone). For many, this could allow them access to the operating potential of computer control without the need for going the whole hog with separate computers and complex software packages. Devotees of JMRI, RR&co etc, may disagree, but I can't help thinking there's an element of "going down a blind alley" in that sphere.

 

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

I'm sure you're behind the drag curve on that one Nigel?

IIRC, after lots of talking, RailCom was adopted as the NMRA standard for Bi-direction communication a couple of years ago.

It's published there in the S&RP's.

 

 

I know the difference between a recommendation and a standard, do you ?

 

I also recommend reading Zimo's recent statements on RailCom.

 

- Nigel

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Again you are way off the mark David.

While Lenz is nowhere as big as Digitrax, CVP Easy DCC or NCE in thew USA, they still have a fairly sizeable user base.

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember they may be bigger than MRC in that companies home market.

Of course we're talking about a much larger numbers of DCC users than over here, where Lenz's quite small market share still amounts to quite a lot.

IIRC, the USA is Lenz's main sales market.

Incidentally, their US distributor is American Hobby Distributors, who many of us know in another guise as Tony's Train Exchange (a sister company).

 

To paraphrase Nigel on the post above, I know the difference between sales figures and sales penetration ( of a market ), do you?

[Ron Ron Ron]

I know the difference between a recommendation and a standard, do you ?

Oops! you've got me there Nigel. Blushes all round on my part. It is indeed a RP and not a "S" (just like most of the NMRA S&RP's are RP's).

I hope you didn't take offence at my remark, as I was only pointing out that your comment "In the past, Lenz has discussed RailCom with the NMRA with a view to get it within the NMRA standards..." appears to be out of date by several years.

 

 

As it stands, RailCom is the only NMRA RP for Bi-Di comms adopted so far.

 

 

I also recommend reading Zimo's recent statements on RailCom.

I have indeed been following the "spat" between Zimo and their major "competitors" Lenz and ESU, over RailCom Plus.

Personally, I think it's a great shame that having brought forward this very useful enhancement to RailCom, the party is being spoiled by licensing and contractual issues.

I have a certain sympathy with Zimo's argument, even if there's more than a suggestion of "sour grapes" in their statements, and can see where they're coming from and can only wonder as to the reasons for Lenz's position. Possibly it's to do with Lenz's "reported" disillusionment with the NMRA and a rumoured assertion that they feel certain manufacturers have abused the principles of the open DCC S&RP's. On the other hand, it could just be about commercial advantage within the European market?

p.s. note that Zimo seem to regularly fall out with one organisation or another.

 

 

To paraphrase Nigel on the post above, I know the difference between sales figures and sales penetration ( of a market ), do you?

David, sorry for my somewhat churlish tone. Twas written in haste.

As it happens I do know the difference and as I said, Lenz are nowhere near Digitrax or North Coast market share, but in the past the US was still their largest market.

I also made the mistake of suggesting CVP were bigger which it appears they're not. According to various sources, including Joe Fugate and the N. American Lenz franchise, Lenz come third after Digitrax and NCE who have over two thirds of the market between them.

CVP and MRC said to be behind Lenz.

 

 

 

[M Graff]

I have been tempted by the smartphone throttlees for a long time, but as the support for android and Rocomotion has been virtually nil, I have waited to see what would come.

I recently bought an Acer Iconia tablet (10,2") and found that Rocrail has an app for it

Rocrail is to be compatible with Rocomotion (as Roco has released the source codes), and should now work.

I will try it out in the following week and see how it works.

As I have lots of sound locos, I think the smart-throttle is better than the Multimaus....

The biggest obstacle is to get all ports and codes together....

But if it works, I will be very happy!

[Grovenor]

If anything, RailCom is an enabler and many things are possible.

But not happening, and from my end of the telescope the train does not have any information that I can usefully get from it. Bi-directional communication is only useful if there is information that needs to flow both ways.

Regards

Keith

[M Graff]

But not happening, and from my end of the telescope the train does not have any information that I can usefully get from it. Bi-directional communication is only useful if there is information that needs to flow both ways.

Regards

Keith

Okay, what about self announcing locos then? Isn't that useful?

[buggerlugs]

Hi

I have a NCE powercab and for what I do im very happy with it apart from one feature which I find truly annoying.

That is that only Functions 0-9 status are displayed in the screen and it requires the enh key to be pressed to diplay but not change higher functions. A return to the original screen is required to change things

With sounds etc extending towards the 20 mark I find this a pain. The way of accessing the highr functions is odd too.

 

I havent looked at controllers for a while but one with a screen that shows more function status along with direct key access like (press 1 the 8 for 18) whould be handy.

There was a table of features somewhere on the net but I cant find it.

Strange that NCE Lenz MRC etc to me never seem to move on with new models and with Hornby catching up fast they had better watch out I think.

Kev

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I also have an NCE Powercab & have extended the function control so that F10 to F28 are accessed via the "option" key.

It tells you how to do this on page 18 of the manual. Only downside is that you sometimes have to press the "option" key and the numer of the function you want to access twice. I.E. If you wanted to use F12 you would need to best the "option" key and number two (2) Twice.

It's a bit of a pain at first but you soon get the hang of it. The major downside is that it takes away the "brake" function from the "option" key.

Hope this helps

[cassey jones]

Lenz St100, simple to use, - press one button activates all functions F11 to F20, press it again for for F21 - F30.

Read CV's now available on the main, quick access to change CV,s.

Simplicity.

[John YouChoos]

Interesting comments on various topics in this thread!!

Original question... systems that support lots of function keys...

Cannot vouch for too many, but for entry-level Dynamis is reasonable (although not my cup of tea). Top end, Zimo's latest and CT are nice, and I guess Lenz Set100 with reasonably up-to-date software.

My primary system is a Lenz Set90, which with software version 3.6 gives you access all the way up to F28, but is quite a pain to operate.

The Hornby Elite is also a nightmare button-combination to use, but can do it, just about.

Software throttle look great, if you have a suitable interface.

 

Sort of related, a number of decoder manufacturers offer features that give access to higher function numbers without the need for the keys on the controller. For example, CT allow you to configure the decoder to accept multiple presses of a function key to access later function e.g. F4 pressed twice in quick succession gives you function5, F4 pressed three times in quick succession gives you function6 etc. etc. Ok, pretty dire if you want F28 (actually they don't support going this high anyway), but at least some respite if you don't want to upgrade your controller.

 

Another feature of CT (and this man possibly be true of other manufacturers, although I haven't come across is elsewhere), is the ability to use 'banks' of sound effects. For example, 16 separately callable sound effects, split into 2 banks of 8. The decoder is programmed so that a given FKey switches between the banks... I tend to use F4 for this action, then F5-F12 give different sounds depending upon which bank is currently selected by F4. Neat. So if you only have F0-F12 on your controller this is a God-send. Even on a Bachmann EzCommand, you can get accesss to quite a few of the sounds using this technique. Ok, so it requires the decoder to have been programmed correctly to provide the functions in this manner, but thought it would be useful to share the existence of such a feature!

 

John