Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Back in this thread (about German modellers running US on Fremo specs in N) it gradually got around to discussion of running similar events (albeit in HO) over here, and Jon and Nick suggested at the end I create a thread about our group, our module standards and our experiences so far.....so you can blame them. Background: I'm part of the Rock Springs group, the group has it's roots in a modular model railroad group based in Feniton many years back, the Rock Springs group was formed when several members split away and built a large exhibition layout called Rock Springs, and whilst that was a nice layout, which (mostly) worked well and (mostly) did what it was meant to do it was very large to move and store, it was very limited operationally, it wasn't wired ideally for DCC, it had a couple of visual issues, and there was very little we could do about the problems we had with it without lots of very heavy rebuilding work. When we lost access to the site we used to store the layout we decided we needed something smaller, easier to move and store, but still capable of the same main line railroading vibe we had with Rock Springs and Rock Springs was sold. (Rock Springs AZ) After drawing lots of plans the chosen layout was RS Tower, depicting a flat crossing between two lines in a small midwest town, lots of local industries to give more operating capability, on a smaller layout with smaller boards that would be easier to store and carry. The wrap-around fiddle yard means that whilst the layout length is 8' shorter than RS Tower the shortest through train we can now run is around 8' longer! RS tower made it's show debut in 2008... RS Tower - lots of scenery work done since this was taken (2009?) - you can't take this shot anymore as there's a signal gantry in the way! RS Tower also had 'expansion capability' built in, based on Freemo concepts with a modular joint at either end. With some judicious distilling of the US-based 'Freemo' and German-based 'Fremo-US' specs we arrived at a module specification which attempted to make modules as simple as humanly possible to build - the theory is the less complicated the specs are, the less chance there will be that you can stuff it up...(speaking personally there!) Once the RS Tower layout was up and running it wasn't long before our first module arrived, Neil Rogers' Oakdale is 8' long, it represents a handful of industries on an out of town 'business park' - the module can be used with another module as staging to form a small layout which can attend shows on it's own, as well as being part of larger setups. Since then various folk in our group have built 18 modules, plus there are a few more under construction - (In addition since it has modular ends RS Tower is also a freemo module!!) - at the Exeter show in 2011 we debuted our largest layout yet with 90' of run added to the end of RS Tower. (2x images of the setup at Exeter used with permission of Brian Moore) The module spec is open source and out there for anyone to use, a handful of folk across the country are already using it, and there is a proposal at present that the NMRA-BR adopts the standard (except with the addition of a built-in throttle bus) as an official module specification. That probably brings things up to date.... The discussion in the previous thread was centred around the potential for running a purely modular meet at the TVNAM venue, but as most modules in existence are based across the South/South West of the UK running something further North would be rather dependant on folk actually building some modules! I know we have some folk interested in this already... More thoughts to follow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I like the concept that the modules are narrower than the standard Freemo 24" modules. One concept that I have often wondered about is has anybody considered making even narrower "running" modules that would be 6-9" wide with just a single track, possibly with no legs, purely to add running distance between the wider "station" modules? If you had a dozen 12 ft stations that each had a 6 ft running module between them the total run would go from 144 ft to 216 ft, an increase of over a scale mile of run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Rogers Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 we've done a module 12inch wide! http://rstowerfreemo.wordpress.com/the-modules/sterling-yard/ Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 I've droppped some photo's into the first post to liven it up a bit. The width thing (curvature as well) was mostly just a practicality Dave, most folk over here have smaller cars so fixing it at 2' wide would have meant it would have been much harder to carry, at 18" you can get two boards next to each other between the wheel arches of most cars so you can potentially get 4 boards into even a fairly modest car. Ref the width the standard is only for the ends of a module, so if you wanted to build something long and thin you could...likewise if somebody really wants 2' for industry or scenery they can build it that wide, it only needs to be the 18" at the ends. One of the new ones under construction is likely to be 2' wide as the person behind it wants a depot with a 'main st' behind it... Sterling (the original Dale Yard!) is a bit of a special case, it was only ever meant to be a bit of staging for when Oakdale went to shows on it's own, it's been 'retired' several times, but we keep finding places where it's useful... As I said, more to follow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 One of the things that becomes very important on this side of the pond is the concept of "running" a train. Using the operating rules to negoiate your way across the railroad. I have operated on railroads occupying an entire outbuilding at least 30x40 ft on 2-3 levels of decks where except for a couple cars being set out by passenger trains there is zero switching. The entire operation is focused on getting the trains over the railroad. From that mindset, the idea of having a way to lengthen the run to make the railroad easier to operate by timetable & train order or by track warrants has a certain appeal to us Yanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The more you talk Freemo, the more I'm tempted. Trouble is, with two small children I haven't the time, money or space for the idea I have in mind! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Since I'm partly to blame for this thread, I'd better chip in. It always surprises me that Freemo is more popular over here. For fans of something like the Somerset & Dorset it seems like a superb opportuntiy to model a line, in the US style, as opposed to simply modeling a station, which is the most common approach over here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Dave, I totally agree, a couple of the modules being constructed in our group at the moment are just plain track. I've noted there are other groups working in similar standards that go so far as to require that builders should provide plain track modules as well as their 'town' - whilst I like the thought behind it (that we need to increase the run) on the other hand I wouldn't be happy with the concept of forcing folk to build particular things - one of the things I really like best about this approach to modelling is that as well as being inherently collaborative it doesn't have to be a huge 'step' before you can get involved. My experience from our group suggests that as groups develop and mature then plain track modules seem to appear as folk realise their usefulness...and if that happens organically then there's no need to put peoples backs up. Back to that small-ish step with Tim's comments - i'm noting your "for the idea that I had in mind" very well here, i'm not sure what you were thinking of for a module (i'm as guilty as anyone at thinking bigger than is practical - i've a bit of a shortlist of ones i'd love to have a go at 'one day' - i'd love to do the NS crossing of the Mississippi at Hannibal MO, a nice multi-span bridge with a lift section, a flat crossing over the BNSF line along the riverbank and then a tunnel through the river bluffs....Mmmm!!) But at the other extreme getting involved with modular modelling could be as simple/cheap as just building (say) a 3'x18" board featuring plain track through some scenery, usable as a photo backdrop or similar at home, or as part of a home layout - it would probably be small enough to store on top of a wardrobe for example - in terms of cost the biggest would be the wood for the board and legs, layout wise it would be one length of flextrack, maybe £10's worth of electrical connections to do the joints plus whatever you choose to do for scenery, and of course you've no deadline to meet for it's completion so the cost could be spread out over as long as you like. In fact taking extreme to the extreme there would be no need to even buy a loco, or even a freightcar, to get involved if you wanted to seriously keep it cheap...just turn up, be willing, play nice and have a good time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Since I'm partly to blame for this thread, I'd better chip in. It always surprises me that Freemo is more popular over here. For fans of something like the Somerset & Dorset it seems like a superb opportuntiy to model a line, in the US style, as opposed to simply modeling a station, which is the most common approach over here. Of course I meant "...Freemo is not more popular..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thought I'd better chip in, particularly as I'm one of those that are, "oop 'int frozen North" - well, Staffordshire. I know that I haven't produced my first piece of American layout, yet, I only saw the correct path on 11th June at TVNAM, but I am a fan of the Freemo idea, the more that I read about it, the more "hooked" I am. My first offering is to be an interchange siding, and will be mainly track and turnouts on a flat single-level surface. There will be some buildings, for the industrial line section, and the Team-Track, but at the moment, that's the only scenery that I intend to install, because I don't feel too confident sculpting rocks, cliffs and forests, etc. A single track through the middle of the scene is envisaged, [2 off, 4 foot by 18 inch sections], the whole thing to be built to Freemo spec. When it's to be used as a stand-alone model, then an extension can be fixed to each end - each extension is a single into a wye, terminating in a dual track, simply to provide a bit of extra length to fill the space in my shed. If part of a single track Freemo model, then just the two baseboards are used, if part of a dual track, then the two extensions will provide the transition between my Freemo and the adjacent one. I'm limited to 4 feet long on the longest sections, to fit it into the "Blue Frog", my Kangoo van. Hope that all makes sense, and I'll let you know how it progresses.... So far, the baseboards have been purchased, plus the timber for the framing, some buildings are ordered via "The Hobby Goblin", and hopefully, I hope to have a wood sawing, cutting, and bashing session, tomorrow. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Thought I'd better chip in, particularly as I'm one of those that are, "oop 'int frozen North" - well, Staffordshire. John Nay, Lad - Tha's in't Tropics - ¼ mile from the Far North Line away oop 'ere in't 'ighlands 'n' further north than Moscow in Russia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I was 'involved' in something similar in HO....20 years ago, nearly...with NMRA British region...more specifically, the Calder Northern lot. Basically, 4 foot and multiples for modules, fixed board bolting dimensions, fixed board height, and fixed double track running lines. The rest was up to the individual. There were corner modules, but I cannot recall the geometry offhand. To get people started/interested, for a small fee 4x2 foot boards, legs, bolts and electrical connectors were offered.....for nottalottadosh.[boards were 3inch by 1inch frame, half inch chip on top] no excuse then, buy the foundations ready-made, simply model on top. Is that top photo really N gauge??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Shortliner - that's not a very Highland accent; it's more like one of my sons-in-law, and he's from "Joosburry" - sorry, Dewsbury. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I was 'involved' in something similar in HO....20 years ago, nearly...with NMRA British region...more specifically, the Calder Northern lot. Basically, 4 foot and multiples for modules, fixed board bolting dimensions, fixed board height, and fixed double track running lines. The rest was up to the individual. There were corner modules, but I cannot recall the geometry offhand. To get people started/interested, for a small fee 4x2 foot boards, legs, bolts and electrical connectors were offered.....for nottalottadosh.[boards were 3inch by 1inch frame, half inch chip on top] no excuse then, buy the foundations ready-made, simply model on top. Is that top photo really N gauge??? I think where the Freemo concept scores is the lack of prescription. No fixed module dimensions, just height, end plates and electrical connections. The rest is up to you. I like the idea of starter kits though. I wonder how much it would cost to commission one of the ready made baseboard producers to tool up a standard RS Freemo endplate and legs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I've cut, hacked, drilled, screwed, nailed, sawn, and sworn at some wood today, and I've created two of my four baseboards - the two short ones, that is - they need a good sanding now, and a bit of filler, paint, then a bit of spit and polish. I've run out of wood now, so I'll get some more tomorrow - I'll have to see if B & Q stock straight wood, because yesterday's stuff was twisted, one baseboard is sitting in the shed, in the clasp of a sash cramp. I stopped getting timber from "Wicke's" because most of their stuff seems to be rejects from a propellor factory, now the twisty wood syndrome seems to have struck elsewhere! Anyway, in spite of that, a question, if I may, please? My two Athearn loco's are much heavier than my British stuff, and have a much better grip - does this mean that they are likely to generate more noise - or put another way, should I lay cork down first, and lay the track on top of that? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Well, remember the module standard assumes 1/8th inch roadbed under the track - I use cork or woodland scenics foam (the latter is more readily available these days). I think Martyn and the RS Tower guys use 1/8th inch balsa sheet. On the other hand, all of my American stock is far quieter than any UK loco I've ever had, including brand new Bachmann and Hornby, so you needn't worry about sound deadening too much. Go with whatever suits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 OK John, thanks for that information. I'd not thought of Balsa wood, probably because I'm not a user of it, in fact, it's probably 30 years since I bought some, and I think that was when I was making something for a dolls house for one of my girls. I'm aware that cork is a bit tricky to get hold of nowadays, so I'll give the Balsa a try on the two end sections, and if it's effective, then I'll use it for the main boards. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Must admit - I don't bother! "Heresey!! " they cried - and one of the VERY first things you learn is that Straight Planed timber is the exception rather than the rule! I ususlly get strange looks from staff and customers in my local B&Q supershed when I take all the bits out of the rack, lay them on the floor, and check all four sides of each until I find ones that are straight enough to be worth taking away - it then sits indoors for a month to "adjust" itself. Tops are MDF offcuts from said supershed, also checked before buying - and assembly is with Everbuild Lumberjack 30 minute wood glue (Gorilla equivalent, but cheaper and much more for the money from your local trade supplier)- with everything clamped - no nails or screws anywhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 ...I'd not thought of Balsa wood, probably because I'm not a user of it, ... Same here - but like you I'm going to give it a try. I like the thought that it will take a screw for soldering rail ends, for example Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 hi guys...with all those straight-wood issues, why not make the framing from plywood strips,separated with odd-wood blocks, glued together? Would be much lighter too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Wow, you go away for the weekend and the thread takes off... Same here - but like you I'm going to give it a try. I like the thought that it will take a screw for soldering rail ends, for example I think we have it screwed through the balsa into the board end/board top, the balsa helps but it isn't that strong on it's own, probably better than foam or cork though. We changed to Balsa when cork started to get hard to get hold of, one of the things that I really like is if you have spurs or other track at 'ground' level it's really easy to sand into a nice slope down off the deep ballast of the main lines - Alpha has this, the effect is quite subtle but nice - balsa also adds virtually nothing to the board weight which is a bonus! I quiite like the idea of an 'off the peg' end plate though... Is that top photo really N gauge??? All the shots i've posted are HO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I've gone for mdf strips for the sides, because it's straight. I had a 4 foot by 3 foot sheet sliced into 4 foot by 96mm strips at "B & Q", and I can cut shorter pieces off for ends, and then I can square them off with my elderly "Black and Decker" router. 96mm was chosen because it gives sufficient depth to clear the Bluepoint operators that I shall install, and the saw operator could get 5 at 96mm and one just a bit wider - apparently some company ruling about not cutting pieces narrower than a certain amount. Perhaps frightened that it will take off like a rocket and fly all round their superstore like an unguided missile - honestly, some people have no sense of adventure at all! I'm no carpenter, but I've had a go at putting one baseboard together without nails or screws, because I understand that mdf isn't too receptive to those. Cabling will be "zip-tied" to a series of thin wooden dowels housed inside the baseboard, to try to keep everything tidy - I've seen other peoples wiring under baseboards and as a former electrician, I could envisage my old boss spinning in his grave, ["No No, not like that, old mate!"] My efforts are presently lounging on the shed floor with two sides and one end in position, and clamps sticking out all round. I made the two end sections before the weekend, but they have the twisty wooden sides, so flushed with todays efforts, [i'm quite slow], I might change them for mdf, provided everything hangs together OK. Tomorrow is a working day for me, but I might be able to do a bit more during the later afternoon. As a certain actor say's "I'll be back!" John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Sometime in the spring - quite possibly on the 3rd March (that's not confirmed yet but I will do so ASAP!) - we'll be having a modular day/running/test session in Exeter. Our ulterior motive to this one is to give a live test to various newbuild modules before the summer (in June we are reprising our bonkers setup from Exeter this year and I suspect we will have even more layout there than last year - we also have a more modest setup due to be at TVNAM!) The meet will be open to anyone interested in coming along and having a look at or talking about the Freemo with more an 'open house' feel than at a show. If you're working on a module and want to bring it let us know in advance and we can probably build it into the setup - not sure exactly how we're funding the hall yet but it *may* be that there is a small charge to each person bringing a module (or modules) Further news: The NMRA-BR i'm told have a "final draft" written to their version of the standards, which are slightly different but fundamentally compatible with ours - i'm told that gets voted on this month hopefully. If I get a confirmation that it's passed i'll post the details and the spec here. More modules keep appearing too - the "Western Union" (Plymouth) NMRA group has 3 members who are also working on modules now...largely based on 'well I had these boards lying around and....' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 We're gradually firming up the info for the March Modular Meet on the 3rd March - the first modular meet organised by the RS Tower group and featuring a mix of Freemo modules from within our group and from the Western Union group down in Plymouth...if folk are interested in the modules it's a good opportunity to come and have a look and see them in action. Here's what we know so far.... Location: The Salvation Army Exeter Corps Friars Gate Exeter Postcode - EX2 4AZ You need to use the basement/rear entrance which is round the corner in Lucky Lane. **WARNING** Parking isn't easy at this venue - the best bet is to use Cathedral and Quay car park which is modern, has CCTV, is very close and is well signed, if you go right up to the very top deck before parking there is level foot access out onto Western Way then round the corner to the venue - about 2 minutes walk. There is some on-street parking in the vicinity but that's not free either and I think there is a time limit which prevents all-day parking. If you're bringing something relatively big and heavy like a module then we reccomend unloading in Lucky Lane at the venue before going to park your car. Cathedral & Quay car park details here: http://www.exeter.go...?articleid=1429 It's also walkable (less than 15 minutes) from Exeter Central station (served by SWT and FGW Exmouth branch trains) if folk wanted to come by rail instead. As a timescale we plan to be open from 9am to start setting up - a rough plan for the day assuming things go well would be: * 9am-12 - Setup (although if we're working before 12 then that's great!) * 12-1pm - Lunch break * 1-4pm - Running * 4-5pm Break down and remove modules * 5-5.30 tidy and clear venue Cost - to cover the cost of the hall hire we plan to charge £5 each for those attending. Catering - Free tea/coffee is available, plus biscuits and maybe a few other nibbles. For lunch we may arrange a run to the chip shop - if there is interest in that let us know. Otherwise there are lots of local amenities - there is a wide variety of food available within a 10min walk. Restaurants and a pub down on the quay, there's a Wetherspoons, another pub, KFC, Shauls and Warrens Bakers (pasties etc) all on South St, an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet and McDonalds/Burger King on the high st. If you want to bring a packed lunch that's also an option. Modules - Current plan involves 9 or 10 modules plus endscenes, it'll be around 80' of linear layout working in a "shortline cluster" kind of arrangement - one yard serving three branches. Neil has sent a plan out to the RS Tower group already, it may need to shuffle a bit to fit the venue but the final version should be similar in concept. If you're bringing a module don't forget to bring clamps and track bus jumpers for an additional board joint to join your module to the next one! Era - It's most likely to look generally post-1980 but it will be very flexible for this one, bring whatever you like but keep in mind that there are no turning facilities suitable for steam loco's or single-ended diesels anywhere on the planned layout. Stock - If you're bringing a module with industries please bring enough cars to cover switching your industries between 2 and 3 times before repeating - If you think you might have a shortage of any car type in particular please let us know in advance and between us i'm sure we can cover it! Similarly if you're not bringing a module and have a car you specifically want to run i'm sure we can find a space for it. Loco's - Due to the layout design we won't need or want huge numbers of loco's on the layout at once - my suggestion for the time being is for people to only have one, or one set of freight loco's on the layout at a time (feel free to bring as many loco's with you as you like, but you'll need to swap them out) - to avoid it becoming overcrowded. Loco sets will be used in switching service so will need to have working kadees at both ends of the set and obviously be DCC fitted. Passenger - We have the capability of running a couple of push-pull passenger trains, Neil and I can cover those but let us know if folk want to bring their own and we'll make sure we leave space for them. Power - We'll have 3 power districts in use to test some techniques we plan to implement for the Exeter show - we should have a programming track plus a sprog/laptop with second programming track available if needed also. And I think that's it for now - if anyone has any specific questions let us know and we'll try and answer it. If folk are bringing other-halfs then Exeter has excellent shops and the city centre is only 10 minutes walk from the venue, so giving them a day out at the same time is not impossible - the quay is even closer with interesting antiquey type shops if you're into that kind of thing. There's a couple of local model shops too, although no US specialists in town... Please pass info on to anyone who you think will be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Lewis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That Exeter meet sounds interesting, is it going to become a regular thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.