New 20T Brake Van

[D605Eagle]

Going by the pictures I've seen of this model, the couplings look like the stick out excessively. Is this true or is it just the pictures that are making it look like they are?

[Bernard Lamb]

Going by the pictures I've seen of this model, the couplings look like the stick out excessively. Is this true or is it just the pictures that are making it look like they are?

They do.

See post 45 then post 47..

Bernard

[hmrspaul]

Thanks Ian, interesting to know about the roller bearing / buffer juxtapositions. I've been trying to piece together the story from Gent's book, also Don Rowlands 'The first half million' and May 1983 'Constructor' - it appears Lot 2868 (Faverdale 1956) could have had the combination modelled, although there is a contradiction between the sources as to whether 'fitted' or 'un'.

 

 

I agree that this batch - 2868 appear to be roller bearing with side web spindle buffers. They are in http://paulbartlett....m/brbrakevan506 The ones I have are consistently lacking brake pipes and are unfitted. Several, such as http://PaulBartlett....an506/e3a66ade5 show that there was a V hanger for a brake cylinder. Many are also in freight stock red - perhaps too many to have been unfitted and repainted in the period after c1965 when there was only one colour for BR wagons.

 

We should also recollect that BR was building wagons - such as some minerals and tipplers - with the internal V hangers for brake cylinders, but without vacuum cylinders or other rigging. Some of the tipplers were retrospectively Vacuum braked later in their lives.

 

Paul Bartlett

Edited August 29, 2011 by hmrspaul

[Pennine MC]

 

... this batch - 2868 ... The ones I have are consistently lacking brake pipes and are unfitted. ...Many are also in freight stock red - perhaps too many to have been unfitted and repainted in the period after c1965 when there was only one colour for BR wagons.

 

I doubt it will ever be proven definitively but to me, this together with examples such as B951410 in Eric Gent's work, suggests a certain circumstantial evidence that not all unfitted vans were originally turned out in grey.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

You're welcome, Downer - it worked very well on the BY, and also the Horsebox. I can't claim any originality as I read it on here (although I may have invented the wire peg - I think glue was suggested) - in fact I think it may have had something to do with Ian (Pennine). I aim to get the corners of the 'loop' part of the coupling level with the buffers, but you may need to experiment a bit depending on how sharp your curves are. I'm not sure it'll be possible to get the couplings that short on this brake van, though!

When cropping pockets and couplers short, I use an old pair of light snips, and usually there is enough crushing action to make the coupler a tight enough fit in the pocket even though it now lacks the little latches at the end of the legs. Extra crushing from pliers may eliminate the need for any adhesive or the wire peg, although I am definitely going to use that idea in one or two locations.

[31A]

Thanks for the information, Paul and Ian. I've worked out that I can concoct a suitable number for a van from this batch (953128) by combining elements from two Modelmasters sheets, and won't worry too much that it's brown when it potentially could have been grey!

 

Thanks also for the coupling modification suggestion, 34B/D, I might give it a try-it sounds simpler than what I've been doing.

[D605Eagle]

They do.

See post 45 then post 47..

Bernard

Sorry, I missed those posts! I should stop skim reading......

[Jenny Emily]

I bought one of these in Olive green a couple of days ago. I put it on the track next to one of my Bachmann models and to the untrained eye that does not know the prototypes inside and out, they look pretty similar. There are a couple of differences (I like the suggestion of a surface texture to the weights at either end). I also like the better underframe detail, which was something that the Shark had too. But other than that I wouldn't say that there is a huge amount in it. As a model it is very good. One big minus though is the steam roller tread on those wheels. The Bachmann wheels look much finer, but the Hornby ones have a tread that makes the face look deeply recessed. Once noticed, it is a detraction that I will probably cure by replacing the wheels. However, on a model at such a price compared to the competition, it seems a bad point that I have to pay to change the wheels too.

 

However, it fails on price. I think Hornby are on a hiding to nothing trying to go head to head with Bachmann when they cannot match prices too. When the Bachmann ones can be had for around the £8 mark, I don't see enough improvement to justify even the discounted £12 I paid for a Hornby example. The model shows (as did the Shark before it) that Hornby can produce some exceptionally good models. However I am left wondering if we will see heavy discounting of this model in time to shift unsold stock (already the box shifters seem to be discounting it a lot).

[davefrk]

Hi all, picked up two vans on Saturday from our local emporium in Glasgow. D&F Models are doing them for £13.00 and with no postage it worked out cheaper than the discounters in my book, support your local model shop I say.... I like the Hornby van even without the brake pull rods, they'll be fitted later. Is it worth the extra monies? Yes I think so but I won't be chucking out the Bachmann vans, (see later).

So, I set about trying different buffers on to see how they looked. The finished vans will have the Square Dowty and the round Dowty, if I do get another van It might get the early Oleo fitted, my late 58 layout is just on the introduction of the Oleos so the van would have to be ex-works.... My Bachmann vans have been getting repainted into grey anyway so I'll continue that process which actually disguises the 'heavy' planking. Here's some photos, I'm sure you can work out what the buffers are.

 

 

And of course the original spindle buffers.

 

 

I've found that the Hornby buffers have a fault with the ribs, it should only be the top one that is stopped short (see photo further up the thread), they are also soft plastic and the heads break away easily so I would replace them anyway. I'm working on vac pipes which would suit these vans, soon...

 

Hope that's food for thought.

Dave Franks

[iak]

Expect some business over the coming weekend Dave....

[Pennine MC]

 

So, I set about trying different buffers on to see how they looked. The finished vans will have the Square Dowty and the round Dowty, if I do get another van It might get the early Oleo fitted, my late 58 layout is just on the introduction of the Oleos so the van would have to be ex-works....

 

 

Those look nice Dave, I'm pleased to see you're doing the 2ft Dowtys as well

 

I succumbed to my second one at the weekend, at £10.50 it'd have been rude not to. The same trader also had some olive vans, which did have the correct combo of Oleos with roller bearings, not plate boxes as in the pic linked earlier.

[steveb860]

I purchased this rather colourful Air piped version today at the show at Steam. In need of a damn good toneing down when I find some time

 

 

And with the Bachmann/Modelzone edition (which has had some of the weathering removed with T cut

 

 

Edited September 11, 2011 by steveb860

[Pennine MC]

Thanks for those Stephen, I think that side-by-side shows just how closely matched the two models are (and there's a comparison of a couple of nice inoffensive brown ones on Windcutter, for anyone distracted by all that yellow )

 

I do like the finesse of the extra brake pipes, the olive one has something similar.

[Mark C]

....not only that but the CAR has a representation of the brake handle and gauge(?) as well as the handbrake wheel - which I have only just realised is present on all three (it's difficult to see in the gloom...)...!!

 

Mark

[The Stationmaster]

....not only that but the CAR has a representation of the brake handle and gauge(?) as well as the handbrake wheel - which I have only just realised is present on all three (it's difficult to see in the gloom...)...!!

Mark

Impressive - but none of them have either a nice red hot stove or all the newspaper that used to get shoved in the cracks around the doors and windows to try and keep the draughts out. More seriously I note the safety rail on the Hornby one has not been painted white and of course none of them should be running around in trains with the safety rails left down (presumably not modelled that way as it would be more difficult to tool?)

Edited September 13, 2011 by The Stationmaster

[Pete Piszczek]

More seriously I note the safety rail on the Hornby one has been painted white and of course none of them should be running around in trains with the safety rails left down (presumably not modelled that way as it would be more difficult to tool?)

 

I have a O gauge brake van that has very nice cast brass safety rails that can be installed up or down. I've often wondered if this sort of item is available in 4mm scale. It would be easy enough to shave off the down one on RTR models and install them up. Some card would probably work, but an etched bit would be even nicer.

[Guest stuartp]

Just a word of warning to those who want a roller bearing fitted version - check the axleboxes before you buy. I picked up my bauxite one today and it has plain axleboxes as per the olive green one. I suspect a batch of chassis has got mixed up somewhere on the production line, either that or there are two bauxite versions but I can't find any reference to that.

 

It's not a problem because you can never have too many brake vans, I'll just have to get a roller bearing one from the next model shop I wander into. Oh dear, how sad..

[Daddyman]

All the bauxite vans I saw in Oxford (7 in total) had plain axle box covers, yet bear the same number as the photo with rollers on the last page. Must be as the last poster surmises - a mix up.

More worrying is that both shops in Oxford have been told by Hornby (or at least the Hornby list) to sell them at £18! At one shop (a toy shop) I pointed out that Hornby's website listed the RRP as £13.99, but they wouldn't be moved so I took my money elsewhere (a model shop), told them the same and they promptly rang Hornby and got confirmation that the RRP was £13.99 and charged me that.

The moral of the story: insist!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I picked up a plain bearing Bauxite version with spindle buffers too, but its what i required

 

David

[darren01]

Hi

Rails of Sheffield have dropped them down to £11.95 now....

[deltic79]

The Signal Box were selling them for £9.99 each at Model Rail Live. Picked up one each of the Railfreight and Olive ones. Lots of the traders there had stock with different chassis on the the olive and bauxite ones so it looks like there's plenty of each type out there and that shops aren't being sent just one type. It seems that the factory has well and truly mixed them all up.

[craigwelsh]

The Signal Box were selling them for £9.99 each at Model Rail Live. Picked up one each of the Railfreight and Olive ones. Lots of the traders there had stock with different chassis on the the olive and bauxite ones so it looks like there's plenty of each type out there and that shops aren't being sent just one type. It seems that the factory has well and truly mixed them all up.

Now that is a price that makes them slightly more worthwhile over the Bachmann.

 

Mind with Sharks cropping up up for £8.99 now compared to what they were when they came out I can still wait a while to see some in the flesh to pickup cheap..

[andyman7]

Fenwicks in Canterbury had them for £18, well no point arguing with them as they are a department store so I passed. Tried Modelzone in Holborn today. Firstly he said they didn't have them. I got him to check the stock, 2 in stock. He still couldn't find them, eventually I found them for him. Prrice £17.99! I said that the RRP had been revised downwards but the guy said the system was down so he couldn't check. So then I asked if would price match - 'yes, no problem' - wait, no Railway Modellers on the counter, no internet, he shrugged his shoulders. No sale. This is getting ridiculous!

[Torn-on-the-platform]

I noticed today that Rails have taken delivery of a batch of a couple of different liveries for this brake van. One is the BR brown version.

 

Bachmann differentiate their wagon liveries between early and late. Hornby don't make this differentiation and I can't differentiate between the two myself, so please could someone in the know have a look and tell me which era this model fits into?

 

The model in question: http://www.Hornby.com/br-20-ton-brake-van-1.html

 

£14.99 RRP - not too bad!

 

Thanks in advance.

[31A]

Looks like the livery that was applied from the earliest days of BR up to 1964 (I think, of the top of my head) when the 'boxed in' lettering style was introduced.  I think the regional branding was abandoned fairly early on in the BR period?  Having said that, obviously they weren't all repainted overnight.  Good to see a re-run of this steam / transition era staple in a useful livery!