New 20T Brake Van

[jjb1970]

Interestingly, the Hornby offering now looks to be the cheaper option. I always thought that both Bachmann and Hornby did a nice version and that both were good but that Hornby was the better model. If you can get the Hornby one for less (and the SRP looks to be significantly less) then the Hornby one would be the one to go for as having the edge both in terms of the model itself and price.

[G-BOAF]

It seems to be representing a through piped version rather than a vac braked van (I can't see the brake cylinder). I thought most of the bauxite vans were actually braked? That is two that Hornby have now done without braking on the van itself...

If they released a vac braked and roller bearing example, I'd buy one as it would be sufficiently different to Bachmann's offering...

[31A]

Actually I think it was the other way round - the majority of BR 'brown' brake vans were just 'piped'.  I also think the Hornby model is slightly better than the Bachmann version, although there's not much in it.  I think the handrails  are slightly finer, for one thing.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Here's a couple of photos of the model in question. Its a slightly paler bauxite than I was expecting, but still very happy with it.

 

 

[Torn-on-the-platform]

A similarly liveried Bachmann equivalent has now hit the shops, costing upwards of £20. Hornby have won the battle here, with a slightly superior yet considerably cheaper model.

[G-BOAF]

If I wanted to turn an unfitted van into a fitted van, any recommendations on a vacuum cylinder casting (resin or white metal)?

 

I've just purchased a CAR very cheaply brand new and am considering a repaint into bauxite as a vac van. This said, were there vacuum fitted roller-bearing vans? Or were all of this batch piped/unfitted?

Edited May 10, 2019 by G-BOAF

[Fat Controller]

Herewith, a link to LMS's site:-

http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_018.htm

Not sure about whether there were roller-bearing-fitted vacuum-braked van, and my copy of Gent's book is hiding.

[G-BOAF]

32 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Herewith, a link to LMS's site:-

http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_018.htm

Not sure about whether there were roller-bearing-fitted vacuum-braked van, and my copy of Gent's book is hiding.

Thanks. Any further info appreciated if your book appears!

 

Were brake vans fitted with normal or 'heavy' vacuum cylinders?

[hmrspaul]

On 10/05/2019 at 16:43, G-BOAF said:

Thanks. Any further info appreciated if your book appears!

 

Were brake vans fitted with normal or 'heavy' vacuum cylinders?

Very few were vacuum braked. Most were through piped.

 

Here is one that does have a cylinder - after much discussion I still don't think we have confirmed this was from new or a later modification. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan506/e2d0fe095    https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan506/e3a019df5   https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan506/e33910307

 

IIRC Gent doesn't clarify information about vacuum braked vans.

 

This link finds a few more with a ZTV TOPS code, although I have my doubts that they all have VB as some have a white base to the brake pipe - which is for a piped wagon; VB wagons have a red base.  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=ztv

 

Paul

Edited May 12, 2019 by hmrspaul
Disturbed by phone, so left link out!

[G-BOAF]

Was this van actually Air Braked (as opposed to piped)?

If so, what sort of gear was fitted. I note that the control pipe is red, but can't tell if the cock is white (piped) or faded red (fitted).

 

Also I see that Chasewater have just restored a vac fitted/air piped van

https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/6053/chasewater-brakevan-dedicated-to-all-bescot-railwaymen-past-and-present/

I

Edited May 11, 2019 by G-BOAF

[Mark Forrest]

7 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Was this van actually Air Braked (as opposed to piped)?

If so, what sort of gear was fitted. I note that the control pipe is red, but can't tell if the cock is white (piped) or faded red (fitted).

 

Also I see that Chasewater have just restored a vac fitted/air piped van

https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/6053/chasewater-brakevan-dedicated-to-all-bescot-railwaymen-past-and-present/

I

Assuming the TOPS code is correct the R in CAR would suggest it is air and vacuum piped

[Mark Saunders]

22 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Was this van actually Air Braked (as opposed to piped)?

If so, what sort of gear was fitted. I note that the control pipe is red, but can't tell if the cock is white (piped) or faded red (fitted).

 

Also I see that Chasewater have just restored a vac fitted/air piped van

https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/6053/chasewater-brakevan-dedicated-to-all-bescot-railwaymen-past-and-present/

I

 

When this was done the White paint on through pipes was not required as I seem to recall was in the mid 1980's it was introduced!

Edited May 11, 2019 by Mark Saunders

[G-BOAF]

14 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

Assuming the TOPS code is correct the R in CAR would suggest it is air and vacuum piped

right, but the legend on the van itself say 'Air Braked' while other bauxite/yellow vans specifically say 'Air Piped'. Hence my question

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

When this was done the White paint on through pipes was not required as I seem to recall was in the mid 1980's it was introduced!

The use of white for the pipes of piped only vehicles was adopted by the Railway Executive in March/April 1952.  A Western Region internal memo dated 21 April 1952 stated -

 

'It has recently been decided by the Railway Executive  ...  ...   the standard method of painting the standpipes of fully fitted coaching and freight stock, and piped only coaching and freight stock, should be in accordance with the following:-

 

Fully fitted  -  standpipe to be painted red

 

Piped only - standpipe to be white 

 

This changed the previous colours quite dramatically as fitted stock changed from black standpipes to red and piped stock changed from red standpipes to white.  A General Instruction revision was not issued on the WR until September 1954 which might be indicative of the change taking some time (and possibly creating confusion in the interim?).

 

The first General Appendix Instruction in respect of the new BR automatic air brake system was issued in March 1968 and applied exactly the same colour coding to brake pipes.  There was a subsequent amendment for piped vehicles which altered the colour of the brake pipe coupling head to red instead of white but the cock remained white as had initially been the case.  Thus the vehicle shown in the picture posted by 'G-BOAF' was actually piped according to the colours of the pipe coupling head and cock.  i haven't bothered to date that change but it was in force by late 1972. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Mark Saunders]

15 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

When this was done the White paint on through pipes was not required as I seem to recall was in the mid 1980's it was introduced!

 

Ignore what I posted It was the removal of cocks on through piped wagons to prevent them being used as the rear vehicle/s by accident that I had in mind but I am sure there was comment about white painting!

[Porcy Mane]

On 19/08/2011 at 17:01, davefrk said:

I've been shown three different photos of the same batch of vans with these buffers on

 

Only three!

You'll not have seen these then.

http://www.sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/aaprint/ash.html   (Scroll down to "ash-62-21")

https://flic.kr/p/bzmKmg

 

Looks like most of the squares were changed out for rounds and Oleo's as the 1970's approached. I've dozens of wet prints I can stick in my pocket for next time.

 

On 19/08/2011 at 17:01, davefrk said:

I can't remember if they had roller bearings or not.

 

They did. 

 

1/506: Lot 3013, all Vac cyl fitted originally.  Almost all ex works phots  I have show square Dowtys up to first shopping. B953646 had 20½" round Dowty's ex works after 1st shopping.  (following accident damage repairs?). Cranked platform handrails on this lot. Early drawbar coupling slot with standard screws. As new vans didn't enter traffic in numerical order and coupling pockets (plus couplings & 24" 20" Dowty's or oleo's) were changed to RIV type randomly between B953550 (possibly earlier) and B953677.

 

Hornby's Oleos look a little anemic to my eyes and have the S type treadplate. I haven't come across a phot of a BV fitted with the S type prior to 1971.

 

The vacuum Cylinder fitted brake vans are exactly as recorded in the Appendix of Don Rowlands book "BR wagons". There is plenty of photographic evidence about to prove this as long as nobody gets confused by phot's taken after BR had decided to remove the cylinders.

 

 

Partway through Lot 3129, end platform handrails reverted to non cranked. 

 

For those bothered about such detail, and wanting a vacuum cylinder fitted prototype, the Hornby roller bearing BV is well suited to use  as a  base for a Lot 2868 vehicle. Most of this lot left Darlington with either 18" spindle buffers and GWR type instanters or 20½ spindles used in conjunction with standard screws with long D link to the top and the standard small drawbar coupling aperture as modelled by Hornby.  e.g.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan506/h2D0FE095#h3e31263e

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan506/h2D0FE095#h3504b04b

 

If you wanted to keep the Hornby Oleos as supplied, a BV in Ex works condition without altering the handrails you are restricted to a late Lot 3129 van but the coupling slot will need changing to a large RIV type. Accurascale sell a good representation of an RIV type coupling & hook.

 

As ever there will always be variations on the above and other differences to trip you up such as the position of the label clip and I'll not mention that cock up that Hornby (and Bachmann) made with the footboards. Oooops

 

P

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Porcy Mane
To sort out links. Then to apologise to Mr. Franks for replying (again!)to a post he made over eight years ago. My PC really doesn't get along with this updated version of RMweb.

[G-BOAF]

Just opened mine.

Loving the interior detail of brake valve and brake handle on these vans. Must be a first for a freight brake.

Now come on Hornby give us another bauxite release.

 

[G-BOAF]

Any reason why the RES van incorrectly comes with plain axle boxes rather than roller bearings?

A search for B954735 van indicates it had roller bearings in RES livery, and also that none of the RES vans had plain bearings.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by G-BOAF

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Any reason why the RES van incorrectly comes with plain axle boxes rather than roller bearings?

 

I guess only Hornby know the answer to that question.