Alternative SatNav usage

[beast66606]

No. You already have your satnav and it's just directed you down 32 miles of country lanes in preference to 32.5 miles along a straight 'A' road

 

I wish - 45 miles down the A roads ...

[Tim Hale]

Sorry to swim against the tide of middle-aged froth but,

 

I am not sure how the 'i can read a map therefore I don't need a SatNav' argument is justifiable. At the very least that means that your attention is shared between driving and map-reading, is that actually safe or even legal or does it require that you stop to consult the map?

 

I don't know where I would be without a SatNav is literally true and I update my system every three years (they're getting cheaper) as new features make driving safer* and reduce the cost of the journey (the latest iteration has an economy option)

 

In less than three weeks I will take another touring holiday into Central Europe, I cannot explain how much the SatNav has made these trips stress-free and consequently more enjoyable.

 

 

Tim

 

*GPS allows me to concentrate on the road rather than being concerned with navigation.

[big jim]

ive got one of those sticky on sat navs which i rarely use, however when i started working in birmingham it was a god send to find my way to moor st for the first time

 

the one in my wifes car however isna cracker, its an atfermarket alpine system (that has dvd player, ipod connections, rear screens etc) that one has built in TMC which is real time traffic reports, if i leave it running in the background while we play the ipod, even without a route set if something happens on the road we are on, or in the area, the screen changes over to the nav screen and advises us on the problem and will ask if we want to find a route round the obstruction, for example it knows that the A49 near whitchrch is shut so wont set a route that way, the first time i drove to work in it spaghetti jn was shut and it rerouted me before i got to the area, cracking piece of kit

 

im about to replace it with a new alpine nav module which can be updated via usb and is about the size of a ciggy packet, the current one iin there s a DVD rom in the boot which is the size of a normal CD player

[jonhall]

I don't understand how this works because my Satnav ETA is constantly updated so I can never arrive before the satnav time, I can't arrive after come to that!

 

So does mine. I've had a few grumbles because it has once tried to make me turn left at a no left turn, and taken me through Nottingham city center rather than bypassing, which should have been quicker, but it usually does OK, and tolerates my general disregard for it if I think I know better...

 

I wouldn't have bought a sat-nav, but the only way to get the ultra-big sunroof on mine is to go for the 'Navigator' spec, which as the name suggests has intergrated sat-nav.

 

Jon

[Derekl]

I got one of these after a frustrating evening in some place north of Manchester trying to find a house and street using a Google maps print out, in the dark, and raining.

 

Fairly useless if you want to travel (say) Leeds to London, since you just go down the M1, but pretty vital for finding the destination address in London. Having said that, it does give an ETA, more or less accurately.

 

The software seems to work on the basis that you travel at 60 mph in 70 zones, down to 25 in 30 zones. In the latter, it is unaware of the existence of traffic lights, so the last bit of the journey, if on busy city streets, will be optimistic. If you can stick to 70 to 75 mph on motorways, you see the ETA dropping slowly. In city traffic, particularly when effected by traffic lights, you see it rise. The one I have (Garmin) doesn't seem to have any software taking account of your driving style. I can't really see the point in trying to race it, but no doubt somebody finds it fun - but then, people do find some odd things to be "fun".

 

I agree with other commentators that it doesn't really give you a feel for where you are, or what is round about you. You are just following the instructions on screen and (sometimes irritatingly) in voice. I have sometimes driven to areas with which I was once familiar, recognised the layout, and thought "Oh that is where we are!"

 

While I prefer a map and a rough idea in what passes for a brain as to where I am in relation to the UK generally, or local attractions, they do have their uses - I can't see that racing them is one of those.

[skipepsi]

The best remark from our aging Sony sat-nav was 'make a U turn now' I was in the outside lane of the M6 at the time.

[Ozexpatriate]

Clearly using the SatNav to play a game of junior rally champion falls under the law of unintended consequences.

 

I'll counter the map afficionados with an experience of mine from several years ago, before the ubiquitous Garmin and Tom Tom hand-helds.

 

I drove a rental car in Paris, armed with a suberb and very detailed fold-out Michelin map. By myself, underground in Paris at speeds approaching 100kph, the map with it's <2 mm high print, was worthless. I can't say how effective a SatNav would have been in the Parisian ring tunnels, but it can't have been worse than the map.

 

My school-boy French is adequate to read the signs but without being able to correlate them with the map, I was flying blind. Despite intending to go to the SW side of Paris, for a short while I ended up headed NW on a tolled autoroute to Normandy, which at least I knew was certainly wrong.

 

Happily I knew my destination was not far from Versailles. Since there were signs to Versailles everywhere, old fashioned highway signage got me where I needed to go.

[petethemole]

That reminds me of a Hungarian gentleman who used to belong to the same military modelling club as me some 30 years ago, long before satnavs. He was driving some other members up the M3 to a show in London. Approaching Fleet Services, somebody said "shall we stop for a cup of tea?". So he did. in the outside lane of the M3! You don't need a satnav to drive with your brain in neutral.

[Adrian Wintle]

I can't say how effective a SatNav would have been in the Parisian ring tunnels, but it can't have been worse than the map.

 

Oh, it might have been. GPS signals tend not to make it into tunnels (and can even be lost under thick wet tree cover for that matter), and the satnav can get confused when the signals reflect off buildings and the like (multi-pathing). Your map isn't going to pop up a 'lost signal' message... That being said, a lot of systems will manage to make an 'educated guess' at your location even if they lose signal for a short period - what would be called 'dead reckoning' in nautical terms.

 

Adrian

[EddieB]

It's August, when the papers are trying to find stories to fill empty space.

 

What's the story here? Does everyone with a SatNav use it to race against the ETA? Do drivers without SatNavs never exceed speed limits?

 

My first time with a SatNav was in a hire car in Germany - a few minutes' tinkering (so it spoke English) and then, for the fun of it, I let it navigate me "blind". I was pretty impressed. More so the following day (Sunday) when I needed to find a petrol station (stay on the main road or drive around town?).

 

I've since bought one which I use mainly when I'm going somewhere new (I'll check the map first, before leaving), but it's also useful for the re-planning feature if I need to take an alternative route to avoid a jam. Also useful as it gives a more accurate speed reading than the car's speedometer. I wouldn't regard it as a substitute for a good set of maps and a bit of advance planning, but a very useful piece of kit. To those who say they'd never need one, when was the last time you took a wrong turning or had to find somewhere to stop and check the map?

 

Probably still to pay for itself in terms of fuel and time saved, but it isn't far off.

 

 

[EddieB]

That reminds me of a Hungarian gentleman who used to belong to the same military modelling club as me some 30 years ago, long before satnavs. He was driving some other members up the M3 to a show in London. Approaching Fleet Services, somebody said "shall we stop for a cup of tea?". So he did. in the outside lane of the M3! You don't need a satnav to drive with your brain in neutral.

 

Scary. Back in Hungary, I think they have a law that you must stop and render assistance where necessary and are liable to prosecution iff you don't. I remember coming across what appeared to be carnage on one of the Hungarian motorways - cars stopped all over the place. There had been an accident (on the opposite carriageway, no less) and so many people had stopped in fear of falling foul of the law, but making the whole scene so much more dangerous.

[James]

Also useful as it gives a more accurate speed reading than the car's speedometer.

That's deliberate though - car speedos always over read. They are not allowed to ever under read for obvious reasons! But rarely are the set up to give a spot on speed. In my car when my speedo says 75mph, GPS reads 70mph.

 

So when someone complains, as I heard a couple of weeks ago, that they got a ticket for just(!) 36mph in a thirty limit, their speedo was probably showing around 40mph! No sympathy from me as a result!

[mcowgill]

My old satnav used to give a fairly pessimistic predicted ETA at the destination, driving normally you would almost always 'beat' it, but then the ETA would become more accurate the nearer you got.

 

My new one is much more intelligent, linking up to realtime data on traffic conditions, current traffic speeds on roads etc, last weekend I did a 550 mile round trip, the ETA it gave on departure was within a couple of minutes the correct arrival time, allowing for the couple of stops made on the way. It has made life so much easier when driving on my own, it knows where the traffic is, offers to send me on a different road if congestion means the alternative is quicker, and I never have to get the map out (or argue with the wife while one of us is reading the map!)

 

One odd thing, and perhaps it's because I've spent so much of my life out walking and reading maps, or trying to find photographic locations with maps, I just can't get on with the '3d' moving view of the world that the satnav gives by default. I have the device in 'map view' mode so it's just an overhead moving map looking vertically down on the landscape. It seems to give me more detail if I need to look at the device and my brain instantly understands what it's looking at.

 

Martin

[Leicester Thumper]

firstly,, I would like to recite a phone call from someone we know a few months back

 

caller: 'Do you have a satnav?'

 

Me: 'yes we do it's called mother...'

 

anyways...

 

I can read maps, so can mother, dad is useless with a bloody map....

 

anyways, you don't need a satnav, and this map reading vs. satnav thing is tosh.

 

If you are driving and require directions, you pull over at the next safest opportunity and consult your map, it isn't rocket science. people whould be able to read maps, bus timetables, simple budgets and all that simple life reigmarol, yet the more people progress, the less they seem to be able to do. hence why the satnav reigns supreme.

 

think about it, 30 years ago what did a HGV driver do? the coach driver do? the family on holiday do? they took a mapbook with them. simple and easy.

 

we have an ordnance survey road atlas from 2003, and considering it is 8 years on, the roads have hardly changed. sometimes the road layouts and routing has changed to that which is printed, but if you have some self initiative and your head screwed on it isn;t to hard to find where you are.

[Ozexpatriate]

caller: 'Do you have a satnav?'

 

Me: 'yes we do it's called mother...'

 

anyways...

 

If you are driving and require directions, you pull over at the next safest opportunity and consult your map, ...

 

30 years ago what did a HGV driver do? the coach driver do? the family on holiday do? they took a mapbook with them.

Sadly, we don't all have our mums to ride as copilots whenever we go beyond our regular haunts. That would be nice.

 

30 years ago London cab drivers had to memorize every street and pass a test before they were given a taxi driving license. Do they still?

 

I don't frequently drive in Britain, but in my collective driving experience (Britain, Europe, US and Australia) I'd say traffic is either much faster or more congested depending where and when you are driving, than it was 30 years ago. This is certainly true where I grew up and there are fewer opportunities today to pull over safely and read the map.

 

In these situations, the sat nav is not only more convenient, but I think safer as well.

[beast66606]

think about it, 30 years ago what did a HGV driver do? the coach driver do? the family on holiday do? they took a mapbook with them. simple and easy.

 

We frequently got lost, simple and easy.

 

we have an ordnance survey road atlas from 2003, and considering it is 8 years on, the roads have hardly changed. sometimes the road layouts and routing has changed to that which is printed, but if you have some self initiative and your head screwed on it isn;t to hard to find where you are.

 

You should try my route to work if you think it's that easy - yes I can read a map but do I want to stop every mile or two ? not when I have a nice lady telling me to "turn left in 400yards, Christmas Road"

[James]

we have an ordnance survey road atlas from 2003, and considering it is 8 years on, the roads have hardly changed. sometimes the road layouts and routing has changed to that which is printed, but if you have some self initiative and your head screwed on it isn;t to hard to find where you are.

I bet they have changed!

 

When I went to Wales about three years ago and we had a map of a similar vintage to yours and we got stuck when we realised it didn't have the M6 Toll Road on it! We had to use the old A6 I think! Bit a of a sod but we did get there!

 

On the other hand finding Neil Rushby's wonderful home from his delightful hand drawn map felt like a real adventure. It was a glorious Welsh spring evening, a powerful car taking Welsh mountain roads in its stride and oddly for me, no mousic, just the engine's soundtrack. Magical and perhaps wouldn't have been the same with Sat Nav...

[Phil Traxson]

we have an ordnance survey road atlas from 2003, and considering it is 8 years on, the roads have hardly changed. sometimes the road layouts and routing has changed to that which is printed, but if you have some self initiative and your head screwed on it isn;t to hard to find where you are.

 

If you keep your eyes open at service stations you can update map books to the latest version for £1.99!

 

regards

 

Another Map User

[Tim Hale]

Gentlemen,

 

Why has this conversation followed the path of so many, two opposing opinions attempting to persuade whoever is reading the thread that their opinion should prevail?

 

Whatever the pros and cons for the argument that you are attempting to win, the outcome will always be the same- two entrenched opinions failing to recognise any merit in each other's submissions.

 

Unfortunately the over-simplistic solution to buy a map and use it fails to recognise that driving is a dynamic activity and therefore reading and driving are mutually incompatible (stopping is not an option in modern traffic) neither is a map-reader an option as the majority of journeys in the UK are solo. In contrast, the SatNav supporters sometimes fail to take cognisance of the cost of the device may well be beyond the means of some whose average journey is no more than 7miles (DoT figures)

 

In short, if you do not want to buy a SatNav and use a map whilst attempting to drive, it is your decision but please be careful and try to avoid West Dorset *

 

For those SatNav users, silently thank the US military for allowing us to use their technology, I have just returned from a presentation on future GPS applications- you ain't seen nothing- yet!

 

 

Tim

 

*because the 'No excuses' campaign will slap you with a fine and points if found driving without due care etc.

[Horsetan]

Not got one and won't buy one. I can read a map, so why bother. OK, I am quite lucky that I can remember routes well, even when I haven't driven them for years, though may get a little thrown by new road once in a while. My philosophy is, if you start out driving in the right general direction, sooner or later you will end up where you intended.

What pees me off is the drivers you see day after day driving to work using their satnav. And the position they sometimes put them. A couple of weeks back I followed one with it stuck in the centre of his field of view and having to look around it to see the road !!!!

 

The only reason I might consider a device is to have Brian Blessed's voice bellowing in the car.

 

However, on the one recent occasion that I did borrow one on a rainy night, I found myself taking my eyes off the road to peer at the screen. That can't be good.

 

....Whatever the pros and cons for the argument that you are attempting to win, the outcome will always be the same- two entrenched opinions failing to recognise any merit in each other's submissions....

 

Just like railway modelling, really..... *kof*

[RedgateModels]

A very measured post Tim, I've "+"sed you

 

Personally, I've stopped using a Sat-nav, I know they are useful to some, but I just found it to be a distraction, a pain to have to keep unplugging etc to stop oiks nicking it and it just sent me the oddest ways sometimes. Problem was, the time it got used most was going on holiday with the caravan - everyone who knows about this thankless task is that roads with white lines down the middle are a priority, so when the sat-nav takes you down some farm track in the middle of nowhere things can get rather heated When my car and laptop got nicked (long story) I got the insurance payout for the Navman, but never bothered to replace it.

 

These days I only thankfully make planned journeys, so google maps and Streetview are used to "fly" the last mile to the destination. I then make a directions sheet with a big black marker and an A4 sheet of paper as a reminder.

 

The RAC Traffic info map thingy on my Android phone is also handy

[Guest]

The RAC Traffic info map thingy on my Android phone is also handy

I've been impressed by Google Navigation on Android.

It's free so satnav essentially costs the price of a car mount and charging lead for you phone. A fiver in my case.

Certainly better than my somewhat dated Route66 box.

[Adrian Wintle]

I've been impressed by Google Navigation on Android.

It's free so satnav essentially costs the price of a car mount and charging lead for you phone. A fiver in my case.

Certainly better than my somewhat dated Route66 box.

 

A downside is that it eats into your data plan to download maps on demand - probably more of a concern over here where data plans are, I gather, relatively expensive (I don't have a data plan, only a voice one - my mobile only got updated to a digital one when they turned off the analogue signals, and it still spends most of its life turned off). It also doesn't work where you don't get cellular coverage (again, probably more of an issue over here).

 

Adrian

[Guest]

A downside is that it eats into your data plan to download maps on demand

I did look into that. When you set up a route it downloads all the maps along the route up front. That's a couple of MB or so. If you do that while on WiFi it doesn't eat into your data plan. If you go too far off route it will need to grab some more maps en route though. I get 1GB (for £12) so it doesn't really make a dent.

 

What you don't want to do is use it for a trip across Europe unless you have a really good roaming plan

 

The demo video from Google looked impressive with some guy shouting 'Navigate to the museum with the King Tut exhibition' into his phone but the voice-Google stuff didn't work quite that well for me. Also there's a nagging suspicion that I'd end up in the sea.

[Tim Hale]

Horsetan wrote

I found myself taking my eyes off the road to peer at the screen. That can't be good.

 

Agreed, either buy a modern easy to read SatNav or visit your optician, preferably both. Would you have been better off taking your eyes off the road and reading a map?

 

Tim