Losing it.

[Raffles]

Generally, I am a reasonable kind of individual who is more likely to have an "Oh well..." moment than fly off the handle but today, I appear to have had my limits breached...

 

Driving across town to my mum's to collect my daughter, I had something thrown at my car whilst approaching a roundabout. Unusually for me, I threw the car into reverse and appeared from the car like a coiled spring and took strong verbal umbrage with the bunch of kids (ages ranging from about 10-12 to 5 or so). The eldest appeared to have launched said projectile so I went vented at her (as the ringleader) but I was stunned to end up getting told off by the (I'm guessing) five year old for swearing amongst other simply facetious remarks.

 

Suffice to say that I got sworn at more than I swore at them but I am left wondering...

 

Were I that age and a 37 year old bloke appeared from his car looking oh so angry and started on me, I would have run a mile but no... they all stood their ground and chipped in.Now, I don't question whether I was right or wrong (I KNOW I'm right ) but has anyone else done much the same? Please don't ask to bring back National Service, hanging, corporal punishment etc as there are online petitions for such a thing.

 

MODS - I appreciate that this fall under the category of "the state of society etc etc" so if it is felt that it serves no purpose or can only lead to no good then please act accordingly but, as I am sure you appreciate, sometimes you just need to gauge your reaction against that of others who may have been faced with a similar circumstance. I feel like reporting my own thread just to be sure... (I wonder if I'll be the first to do so? )

[Leicester Thumper]

my mum did the same.

 

I used to cycle to my college 6 miles away everyday but during heavy snow and ice, mum thought it would be better me going in the car with her.

 

one morning the other winter she dropped me off at college and caustiously set off home. the college i went to had a 11-14 school next door, and they were all making their way to the school. mum was driving down the road and a group of five kids threw several snowballs at my mums windscreen. as we know this is a particularly dangerous act, and with little .... gits shall we say, likely to put rocks and stone in the middle, no wonder my mum was so shocked and enraged.

 

she did an emergency stop, slammed the car into reverse and ran out the car after the kids shouting who knows what whilst they bolted across the local golf course (public right of way runs right through the middle)

 

i only know all of this because my classmate who was running late, saw the whole proceedings taking place, needless to say i said 'you wure it was my mother?' as she seldom reacts like that...

[Guest Max Stafford]

Matt, I feel like that every single day so don't worry, you're not alone - it's a perfectly natural reaction! It's worth remembering though that most of these kids, particularly the boys don't have father figures or credible male role models to teach them the right way to behave.

 

 

Dave.

[melmerby]

Problem is these days the kids have all the rights but no responsibilities and some of them know that and take advantage.

Even the parents of said brats defend them to the hilt even when they are clearly in the wrong.

Try telling them off for wrong doing and you are likely to get abused or worse by the parent.

 

A while back my wife and myself were about to leave a coffee shop and as we got from the table up a woman with two in tow dived in and she told the kids to sit down. We hadn't completely left the table and my wife still had a bag on the floor which one of the brats stood all over. My wife was concerned about the bag as it contained a piece of crystal glass she had just paid £275 for and instinctively shouted to the kid "don't stand on that bag" to which she instantly got a tirade of abuse from the mother who told her "How dare you tell off my child" There then followed a tirade of abuse towards me when I tried to intervene, pointing out what the child had done.

 

The woman looked quite respectable, not from one of the sink estates so we were rather shocked by what happened.

It seems the current batch of brats are completely untouchable.

 

Keith

[Raffles]

LT - Good on your mum but I guess the difference here is that they ran. This bunch just stood their ground and dished it back out at me. I would have preferred that they ran.

 

Dave - Thanks for that. I should imagine you see far more of this than I do so if you feel the way I did most days and still keep pushing you're the better man than I. More of ten than not, I would walk/look the other way but today - today was too much. The one thought in my head was don't, DON'T raise a hand to this vermin. At that point, you've lost. Badly.

 

Keith - I think that;s the crux of my problem. It's the fireproof nature of some of today's youth. Often displayed by those that walk out in front of your car and look you dead in the eye, almost daring you to run them down. No-one's indestructible but that concept seems to have passed them by. Pro tem.

 

I never thought I would become the archetypal "grumpy old man" at 37 but here I am. Welcome to the new world...

[Trainshed Terry]

Bring National service, that would teach these youngsters discipline.

 

Terry

[petethemole]

By the time they're of military age anti=social behaviour (at least) is ingrained, if they're allowed to run wild from an early age. You'd have to call up 10 year olds!

[The Stationmaster]

Matt, I feel like that every single day so don't worry, you're not alone - it's a perfectly natural reaction! It's worth remembering though that most of these kids, particularly the boys don't have father figures or credible male role models to teach them the right way to behave.

Dave.

 

Does that mean that women are unable to discipline children? I think not because a large chunk of what any child learns about social behaviour comes before the age of 5 and they spend most of that time with their mother - be there a father around or not. When my two were small I only saw them in daylight for much of the year at weekends and often only saw them very briefly when I arrived home on weekday evenings but their social behaviour is perfectly ok, and was largely taught to them by their mother. This business about 'male role models' is, i often suspect, just another excuse rolled out to explain away rubbish parenting by women who simply aren't up to the role but are happy to take the benefits which go with it (although i appreciate that their inadequacies are often the result of the way they were brought up too).

[brossard]

I remember an episode of Yes Prime Minister where the PM approached CGS with the idea that national service be brought back to alleviate unemployment. He went positively pale at the thought of his beautiful volunteer army being sullied by the yobs referred to above.

 

Society is to blame of course. It comes from decades of coddling children and trying to bargain with creatures with no frontal lobe. Kids today have no fear of consequences because there aren't any. If you clout them you'll be staying at HM's pleasure before you know it.

 

Shocking to think these "people" will be governing us in the not too distant future. Stay tuned for death panels and "Soylent Green".

 

Vent over.

 

John

[Raffles]

Kids today have no fear of consequences because there aren't any. If you clout them you'll be staying at HM's pleasure before you know it.

 

That sums up my thinking right now very well.

[Leicester Thumper]

Does that mean that women are unable to discipline children? I think not because a large chunk of what any child learns about social behaviour comes before the age of 5 and they spend most of that time with their mother - be there a father around or not. When my two were small I only saw them in daylight for much of the year at weekends and often only saw them very briefly when I arrived home on weekday evenings but their social behaviour is perfectly ok, and was largely taught to them by their mother. This business about 'male role models' is, i often suspect, just another excuse rolled out to explain away rubbish parenting by women who simply aren't up to the role but are happy to take the benefits which go with it (although i appreciate that their inadequacies are often the result of the way they were brought up too).

 

Hear hear, Mike.

 

Leicester has about 6 main housing estates and i clearly see everyday examples of bad parenting....

 

although not quite the same, I was in the local morrisons with mother getting our fresh british steak for dinner (We do like their steak!!!) and we saw two acts of bad parenting.

 

first one was near the fruit and veg isles. Two parents of average type with the two youngsters in tow. Now the kids wanted to be really helpful and get mummy's items for her, the mother had not clocked on to this and then the kids were putting said items into trolley when there was that item already in the trolley, she then turns around and shouts at the children for 'being annoying and attention seeking' by trying to help!!! is it me or are some parents backwards minded. If it were my kids I would ask them to go get certain items to be helpful. instead she turned two smiling kids into shivering wrecks.

 

the second one was a rampant three year old running about the place whilst mummy didn't care and was two isle away, this rampant little git ran straight into my bad knee which i injured in a cycling accident and then damn me if he didn't proceed to push my mum out the way!!! in mind my mum is 45 and has a compressed spinal cord and sometimes struggles to move.... needless to say i wasn't happy!

 

I didn't need to tell the mother off the kid had done something to someone else, and then there was a massive argument between the mother and another woman over her being a 'c*** parent and not deserving kids'

 

some things leave me amazed....

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Matt,

You are definately not alone as I very often feel that way..........BUT: I've heard and read of too many stories where someone in just your situation has been not merely sworn back at but beaten up, stabbed and/or killed - so I would grit my teeth and carry on. Not very heroic but I have a wife and she don't want to be a widow!

And why?

I believe it's not just since the end of national service, ending of capital punishment etc - it's this 'thing' in our society where no-one is taught self discipline, morals or taking responsibility any more.

It's also not just chavs from estates that behave in this way, you know! I've certainly come across many an apparently welltodo parent behaving in this lacksadaisical manner. A lot of the problem is because parents can't be bothered to 'bring up' their children anymore - they simply dump them in front of the TV.

More than this, the media is partly to blame with their taking up stories of those that shout the loudest, getting all the attention. The fact that these people are wrong, ignorant or plain stupid (or even criminal) is never allowed to get in the all important business of selling papers (no 'news'!). The other people I blame are the shyster laywers for protecting these 'people' whenever they are caught doing wrong - big paychecks for them!

All of this, of course encourages other scum to try it and get away with it. Which becomes self propogating.

I hate to say it but I believe it all originates from 'liberalism' in the sixties and seventies, where it sounded good at the time but has far reaching consequences for us and our children and theirs.

What's the answer?

I don't know but if the state stopped giving so many free handouts to all and sundry - those who have kids just to get more dole money, a council house etc. etc. - that would be a start!

Cheers,

John E.

 

P.S. Anyone who calls me a ruthless dictator will be shot!

[Pennine MC]

 

Keith - I think that;s the crux of my problem. It's the fireproof nature of some of today's youth. Often displayed by those that walk out in front of your car and look you dead in the eye, almost daring you to run them down. No-one's indestructible but that concept seems to have passed them by. Pro tem.

 

Funnily enough I told this story the other day at work, but this isnt particularly a modern thing. Even thirty years ago, a taxi driver of my acquaintance ran into a young bloke (I must stress this wasnt a child, it was somebody old enough to know better) in Hull town centre on either a Friday or Saturday night. He summed it up as 'oh, he was one of these clever b*stards who just walked out in front of me, so I hit him'. I think what he actually did was not to charge into him unabated as such, but maybe to not brake quite as quickly as he could have. Whilst I'd obviously never condone it, I could certainly understand his exasperation, and the bit that gets me is that the cockiness of these characters apparently seems to override basic self-preservation instincts.

 

I never thought I would become the archetypal "grumpy old man" at 37 but here I am. Welcome to the new world...

 

No, I think I started well before 37

[Edwin_m]

There's some interesting psychology in here. In a car you tend to feel insulated from the outside and safe from the perils of the world. A minority of drivers (I'm not implying that includes anyone mentioned on this thread) feel so invulnerable that their character seems to change completely and they become much more aggressive. When that security is threatened by someone challenging the "right" to drive unhindered then it can provoke reactions that are out of character - the root cause of road rage in my opinion. While the stone/snowball throwers are clearly out of order, you could argue that the pedestrian in Hull had as much right to cross the road as the driver had to drive along it.

[Kenton]

you could argue that the pedestrian in Hull had as much right to cross the road as the driver had to drive along it.

So you are saying a pedestrian has every right to step out into the road where motorised vehicles generally have the right of way and the motorist is always in the wrong?

 

Perhaps that might be the attitude of the "problem" youth who's world revolves only about themselves. I have always been brought up to believe that the pavement is the preserve of the pedestrian where motor vehicles are not allowed to go, where as stepping out into the road of a motor vehicle equates to suicidal unless you are on a designated pedestrian crossing.

 

As for the OP - I think you were lucky the "5" year old did not produce a machete and attack you. All too many are so hyper on drugs. But it is always the fault of the parents. Most are second/third generation failures who themselves have been badly raised. Parenting skill are predominently passed down by our own parents and if their attitude is simple live and let live there is no hope for following generations.

[edcayton]

I don't think that any of us are fault-free drivers (or pedestrians/cyclists either), and that it beholves us all to allow for other people's mistakes-hence the excellent hazard perception part of the driving test. I would suggest that nearly all collisions are the result of either more than one person's mistake or someone not allowing for someone else's mistake. My father used to talk about removing the mote (whatever that is) in your own eye first.

 

Ed

[edcayton]

On parenting, I think the fact that my kids have turned out OK is probably more luck than judgement on my part.

 

BTW I also tend to have more sympathy for the parents of the, for example Norway madman or the Bulger killers than for the victims. The victims have the "luxury" of having someone to blame, the criminal's parents also lose a child and will spend the rest of their lives blaming themselves.

 

Ed

[multiprinter]

So you are saying a pedestrian has every right to step out into the road where motorised vehicles generally have the right of way and the motorist is always in the wrong?

 

 

That seems to be how the law regards it anyway.

[trisonic]

Everyone "loses it" from time to time - it's often not very helpful but may make you feel better for a short time.

 

By the way people have been complaining of dangerous, insolent, groups of children (and blaming their parents) since the 19th century. I'm not sure conscription is any answer, viz "riots" between conscripted soldiers and "Teddy Boys" in the early fifties in Brentwood, Essex - though I bet you won't find details anywhere.........

 

Best, Pete.

[edcayton]

B..... students! Always fighting and marching. Put'em in the Army, that'll stop 'em fighting and marching!

 

Ed

[Baby Deltic]

I'm gonna tell it how I see it. Violent computer games, violent gangster ©rap giving kids the idea that violence and gang culture are acceptable, and lazy benefit seeking parents who don't care about their kids, but care about the money they get for sitting on their backsides infront of the TV blowing smoke at the ceiling.

[Edwin_m]

So you are saying a pedestrian has every right to step out into the road where motorised vehicles generally have the right of way and the motorist is always in the wrong?

 

Not quite. Regardless of who has right of way or whose fault any accident might be, the pedestrian is unlikely to do any damage to the driver but the driver could do quite a lot of damage to the pedestrian. Motorists have a general duty of care to those more vulnerable than themselves.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858

[oggy1953]

I'm afraid it is a sad state that society is in, very little disipline is taught and the result is what the OP has stated, just look at the footage of Tottenham last night, mostly young kids, Bring back the birch ( am i allowed to say that ?) If not sorry.

[newbryford]

I don't think that any of us are fault-free drivers (or pedestrians/cyclists either), and that it beholves us all to allow for other people's mistakes-hence the excellent hazard perception part of the driving test.

 

I've never heard it described as "excellent" before......

 

Driving instructors that had already qualified before the introduction of the video test had to go and sit it - and obviously obtain a higher pass mark than "new" drivers. 57/75 as opposed to 44/75.

Many were failing it because they saw every (or almost every) potential hazard and clicked accordingly. The system considered that they were clicking too much and scored a zero for each clip.

 

The hazard test is only for developing hazards and promotes a "reactive" style of driving. As mentioned in the thread on Gatso red lights elsewhere, drivers should be thinking ahead - proactively - with "what might happen" at the forefront.

 

In my eyes, the hazard perception test is a video game - if it moves, shoot it - twice.

 

Having said that, I can't suggest an alternative for new drivers as they haven't got the experience to think ahead. Especially as many of them are taking the theory test within the first few weeks of beginning to learn to drive. Some even take it before they go on the road.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Guest Max Stafford]

"This business about 'male role models' is, i often suspect, just another excuse rolled out to explain away rubbish parenting by women who simply aren't up to the role but are happy to take the benefits which go with it (although i appreciate that their inadequacies are often the result of the way they were brought up too)".

 

Mike, I'll give you a point for that part as I agree strongly from what I witness with my own eyes.

 

However, I will stick to the lack of decent men to look up to for so many of our young lads.

I frequently see men in their 20s these days walking down the street with one hand down the front of their trousers (looking for inspiration?), talking at shouting volume in what passes for normal conversation and generally carrying on in ways that would have been unthinkable for a 20 year old even 30 years ago - when I was a kid, it was only the slightly backward one from down the street who had his hand down his strides and even he seemed to grow out of it before he was ten.

 

You can see it even in 'grown men' approaching their 30s these days in the utterly brain dead and immature way they drink and conduct themselves whilst doing so.

 

I'm sorry folks but after 20 years in this game I just don't like people and when I'm not there, I like to go where there are as few as possible.

 

I'm going to retire to an isolated corner of the border country where I hope to avoid all human contact except that which is on my own terms.

 

Dave.