The Old Road - a Hampshire byway

[NWJ]

Have you thought about how high to have the layout? My old one was 4'6" from the floor and I think the new one will go to 5ft. This will mean standing on a "hop-up" to work on it, but will give me eye-level viewing from standing or my high stool. This helps to mask the sharp curves and the narrow 00 track.

 

Ed

I remember seeing a model railway called "Tupdale" by Andy MacMillan which was probably taking up a space not much larger than you have. Although it is set way out of your chosen area ("Up North" in Settle and Carlisle territory) this link takes you to a few photos which show how Andy managed to disguise some extremely sharp curves so that they appeared to be less sharp. The photo of the "view along the goods yard", 3rd row, 3rd from left shows what I mean as the main line snakes through a full 180degree curve from the station area at the left hand side to the goods yard on the right around a courve of about the same radius as you are thinking about. Certainly the photo of the mock up on the floor helps to visualise the concept.

I am inclined to agree with Belgian's comment about the distance between stations though, especially after looking at the mock up. There are very few examples in reality where two stations are so close together and I also wonder whether this will detract from the running in the long run? Why do you not want to just model one complete station in more detail adding scope for sidings for shunting stock. As the owner of a roundy-roundy, I do find that this light relief is sometimes quite therapeutic, but I also appreciate the pleasue of just watching the trains go round too!

Neil

 

Forgot to add the link to the photos: http://www.countrysidemodels.co.uk/gallery_tupdale/tupdalemain.htm#tuppickbox

[westerner]

I must agree with Neil. One station with sidings for shunting. My layout Wencombe is in a room with much the same area [slightly larger in fact (11ft 6ins by 8ft)] and although the platforms look long they will only take a 4-6-0 + 4 Mk1s. Also be aware of how much fiddling you want do do in your fiddleyard or do you want it as a storage yard ala American layouts where there is hardly any stock manipulation.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Thank you chaps, I have been thinking about your comments over the evening and come up with an alternative plan. I'm still not 100% happy with it but it is a starting point I guess.

 

And yes, Tupdale is inspirational in many ways and shows what can be done in the same space. It does make full use of underneath storage sidings and gradients though. To be honest, I immediately ruled out having any gradients or under-board storage sidings but maybe I shouldn't have been so rash in my decision.

 

For now here is the latest version but it certainly won't be the last!

I am thinking that I should start a topic in layout planning to help me on my way. Any help I can get with the trackplan would be valuable, especially if it makes it well designed and better in the long run.

 

 

The main difference with this plan is the change in format from a U to an elongated oval. This means I have had to include a duck under/removable board. Also note that the mainline (the Old Road) runs as a separate line as per the prototype and so the single line section is kept to the Salisbury branch.

 

Over to you...

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Following from my previous post I've drawn a slight variation which I think fits a bit better.

Hopefully the following sketches are clear enough - I'm not known for drawing neat sketches!

I've drawn one as a plan view and one as the 3D version of it.

 

 

 

You'll notice that I have reversed the two junctions around so the main 'Old Road' mainline station is at the bottom left not top. Oh, and before I go, there is one other point I have not even begun to think about. At the moment there is no fiddle yard and I haven't thought of how I could store trains and locomotives. If you have an idea about this let me know as I haven't really given it much thought because I got rather carried away with designing the scenic section!

[NWJ]

Jam

 

It is interesting to see how your thoughts are evolving on this one. I agree with you that the latest plan is probably more workable than its predecessor but I still feel that you are not going to get much in the way of operational interest from Breamore syou tation. Having said that, I don't know where your personal interest lies in railway modelling - if you are more interested in developing the scenery side of things then this would be a great one to work on, especially if it is the local station that you referred to in an earlier post - field visits and the ability to research are much easier on the doorstep.

The plan also works on a second level of just being able to watch the trains go around - again, this may be your own desire and, to that extent, this plan will offer what you want with the scope to route trains around the circuit via Breamore. However, if you are seeking to gain more than this, you may need to develop ideas further. Think about the traffic movements you envisage and whether these are possible and, more importantly, stimulating in as much as providing you with the right level of operating interest that you are seeking from this layout.

I agree that the storage/fiddle yard is an issue - I was wonderig if you were going to utilise the outdoor loops for this. I knew of one layout, a monster of an O gauge set up, where all the trains were stored in the loops that were built outside of the shed which housed the modelled station section. It wasn't ideal, but it did work and there was not often any trouble with this set up. You have mmoted the idea of the outside loop, so perhaps this is an idea worth exploring. However, personally I would rather have the more traditional idea of the FY on one side and the station on the other unless you decide to incorprate gradients, which I seem to recall that you were not keen on.

Anyway, watching this with interest.

Neil

[artizen]

Is the shed built yet? Perhaps when it is built you could incorporate the fiddle yard on the outside of the wall (on the left of the plan) and leave part of the cladding off so you can see and reach into the yard from the operating position? Of course this would mean building a roof and sides over the fiddle yard or the whole shed will be unliveable in winter. Just a thought and one I would entertain in my over-engineered way of doing things if ever I built a shed.

[Donw]

Storage sdings fiddleyards always seem to use up space where you could have something scenic. If you put them underneath access is poor. If you have a station one side and a fiddle yard the other you only have half the scenic space. So the first question is are you a builder of layouts, a builder of locos or an operator? Most probably a bit of each which suggests compromise. Secondly you mention a N gauge layout in the shed, I wonder why you haven't been keen to use that? It might give you clues to what you really want. It is surprising but a plan that looks too simple can often make a great layout whereas a complicated plan may just be too much trouble especially if you are pushing curve limits have underestimated pointwork lengths and end up with trains that look too short. Cyril Freezer designed a few plans for shed with an outside storage box. However when I considered using one I found he had underestimated the gradients so do check carefully.

Don

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Hi Neil,

 

I think my first plan was very ambitious/hopeful and that in reality you would struggle to get it in the space required, however, I'm glad my latest plan is starting to make more sense. I agree that operational interest is not that great in the above plan, and as you say, I chose Breamore because of its locality. I do love developing the scenery, but equally I would like to get some decent operating interest out of this layout too. One of my main aims was to be able to watch the trains go around on lazy days where I can be sat in the shed and work on some modelling or just relaxing.

 

Like I said, I hadn't thought about having any kind of fiddle yard up until now, and I can see the advantages and problems of having storage loops outside - particularly with regards to weather. I do one to keep most if not all of the space inside the shed for the scenic section if possible. I should point out that I currently do not own much stock - perhaps why I didn't think about having a fiddle yard?

 

Hi Ian,

 

No, the shed is not yet built (that will probably be the subject of another topic when I get round to starting it). It will be purpose designed and built by my dad and I and hence why I wanted to get the plan sorted before I started the shed construction. You do make an interesting point about having a hole where the outside loop will be and putting a small roof over this. I'll give this some more thought.

 

Hi Don,

 

I'm both a builder of layouts and an operator (but not a loco builder!). Therefore compromise (that dreaded word amongst modellers!) is almost certainly necessary. There are a number of reasons why the N gauge layout never gets used;

 

1) The current shed is not insulated and has no electrics.

2) It is filled with sheets of wood and other gardening detritus that SWMBO leaves in there.

3) There is very little security.

4) The shed leaks and the door is warped.

5) I don't have any N gauge stock (anymore)!

 

Therefore if I am to learn my lesson, I must therefore tackle these things before the new shed is completed.

 

I will be back in about 20 mins to post a rough plan of the garden and the space available to help you all visualise the space a bit better.

Thanks for all your comments so far, keep them coming!

[SouthernRegionSteam]

As promised:

 

[artizen]

if it's like this country, not only do you need permission to build the shed from the council, but you pay handsomely for the privilege in fees and charges as well. So if you are going to spend money, why not extend the shed to the left? Or is there a notional setback from the boundary for buildings? Either way, putting the fiddle yard in a box attached to the outside wall might be possible as long as you can still reach into it from inside the operating well.

 

To be perfectly honest (who me?) it looks more and more like N scale is more feasible if you want to keep everything inside the room. Working in a tiny scale like that is not my cup of tea though which is why my signature refers to such large scale dioramas!

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I agree N gauge would be easier, but I'll see what I can get away with in OO for the moment. I am unsure about the regulations of building outbuildings in my area but will double check with dad as he'll know more than me. I know we didn't have to for the shed on the right of the plan. I think the height of the shed is a governing factor too. I'm not sure I would be able to extend the shed to the left because as far as I know there is a manhole cover leading to the septic tank around the back of the existing shed so we would need access on the left hand side.

[spamcan61]

Chapter and verse for England on planning & building regs:-

 

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/

[mobi323]

Hello there! Well it's been a long time coming but it is finally coming to fruition - a roundy-roundy shed layout based on the old Hampshire byways. Recently TWMBO gave permission for a new shed to be constructed to house my railway needs - thus they settle on a 10ft x 8ft space where a current shed stands at the bottom of the garden. Typically I immediately saw railway potential for a branch line. And the location just had to be my local line (now long gone) with the nearest station around a mile away and beautifully preserved to this day. Now the scene is set I need a plan. The photo below shows the current plan I've been thinking about. Originally I had planned for it to be a double track roundy roundy but as the prototype was a single track I am leaning towards that instead. I should point out that I have no idea whether the plan will fit in the space at all. You will also note that I am thinking about having a small section of the layout going outside the longest side of the shed. It was either this or have a multi-level layout, and I know which I'd rather have! The below photo shows a possible visualisation of the shed. So this is my first proper big layout and I will need a lot of help and guidance along the way (hint hint!). Vital stats: Size: 10ft x 8ft Gauge: OO gauge Configuration: roundy roundy, perhaps with outside loop Location: Southern Railway, Hampshire, 'the other S&DJR', The New Forest. Now onto you! Cheers, Jam

You have great plans and plenty of room to make a terrific layout.

Keep the photographs and plans coming.

[mobi323]

Hello there! Well it's been a long time coming but it is finally coming to fruition - a roundy-roundy shed layout based on the old Hampshire byways. Recently TWMBO gave permission for a new shed to be constructed to house my railway needs - thus they settle on a 10ft x 8ft space where a current shed stands at the bottom of the garden. Typically I immediately saw railway potential for a branch line. And the location just had to be my local line (now long gone) with the nearest station around a mile away and beautifully preserved to this day. Now the scene is set I need a plan. The photo below shows the current plan I've been thinking about. Originally I had planned for it to be a double track roundy roundy but as the prototype was a single track I am leaning towards that instead. I should point out that I have no idea whether the plan will fit in the space at all. You will also note that I am thinking about having a small section of the layout going outside the longest side of the shed. It was either this or have a multi-level layout, and I know which I'd rather have! The below photo shows a possible visualisation of the shed. So this is my first proper big layout and I will need a lot of help and guidance along the way (hint hint!). Vital stats: Size: 10ft x 8ft Gauge: OO gauge Configuration: roundy roundy, perhaps with outside loop Location: Southern Railway, Hampshire, 'the other S&DJR', The New Forest. Now onto you! Cheers, Jam

TWMBO???? SWMBO I understand but I cannot think of TWMBO.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

TWMBO???? SWMBO I understand but I cannot think of TWMBO.

 

Ah yes, TWMBO - otherwise known as They Who Must Be Obeyed (i.e. my parents!)

And thanks for the comments - i'll try and update as much as possible.

 

And whilst I am here, I have just acquired a book on the S&DJR and a book of SR track diagrams from the Salisbury area - now things can really start to hot up!

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Using the two old roof panels from my old shed, some old track and what buildings were left of my childhood model railway I layed out a rough plan of the layout. The thing that struck me immediately is that it is not as big as I thought it was! Of course, this always happens in railway modelling and the inevitable C word (compromise) rears its ugly head!

 

 

If only I had another 4 feet in length it would be ideal. I really do want to keep both mainline and branch line stations but I also want a lot of scope for scenery. The question is fitting it all in...

 

And one other thing I might add, I am not sure whether to have the junction on the left of the photo for the branch line leading to the right or to the left (or both maybe?). [i hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain!].

[SouthernRegionSteam]

An alternative version. Junction swapped to bottom (again), tunnel moved to bottom and a mill added as well as more sidings. Any thoughts or improvements?

 

[Guest Belgian]

OK, comments:

 

If you are going to have outside storage sidings, why not go out of the ends rather than the side? (By "ends" I mean top and bottom of your plan). That way the extreme curves on the main line will be out of sight. Of course, it depends on how much space you have each end outside the shed.

 

By the way, have you got an exhibition coming up in Woodgreen soon?

 

JE

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Hi JE,

 

I had not thought about putting the loop out of the ends of the shed rather than the sides. I do have enough room and it would seem a logical step - thank you for that pointer.

 

And yes, there is an exhibition in Woodgreen very soon - a week tomorrow (10th and 11th). I should really put some details up. It's run by Reg and Mary from the village and is a biannual exhibition.

[spamcan61]

I'd be tempted to have external loops top and bottom, connected by Ringwood/ alderbury junction on one side and straight lines underneath Breamore on the other; that gets rid of any visible sharp radii on the main line.

[edcayton]

 

Ah yes, TWMBO - otherwise known as They Who Must Be Obeyed (i.e. my parents!)

And thanks for the comments - i'll try and update as much as possible.

 

 

 

And there was me thinking you had two wives.

 

Ed

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I'd be tempted to have external loops top and bottom, connected by Ringwood/ alderbury junction on one side and straight lines underneath Breamore on the other; that gets rid of any visible sharp radii on the main line.

 

So you suggest effectively a two tier layout with the main line and fiddleyard beneath Breamore. Have I understood that correctly?

 

And there was me thinking you had two wives.

 

Oh God no!

[spamcan61]

yeah, I'm saying two tier on the Breamore side, with the main line underneath Breamore, looping back to Ringwood.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

It is certainly an idea worth exploring, thank you.

I'll have to decided whether I want to have two tiered layout or not but it may be worth it.

If I did, what kind of distances would be involved - i.e. height between tiers, length of incline, severity of incline etc.

Thanks for your help so far.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I have attached a list of some of the locomotives seen on the S&DJR using only the book of the same name by Nigel Bray as the only source. Obviously in future I will add any more that surface in other sources. I have also written up and added the 1938 July timetable for weekdays and weekends. I can only assume they classed Saturdays as weekdays! I haven't yet worked out all the freight trains but this will eventually come to fruition - hopefully tomorrow.

 

 

 

Not much more planning has been going on yet and I haven't been able to get the materials for the shed with dad which is a pain because I'm eager to get on with it. I'm yet to finalise the plan for many reasons but mostly because of indecision. I am still unsure whether to have it on two tiers or not...

 

I'm not sure whether to operate the layout to a timetable as I think it may be a little restrictive but we'll see what happens. I was hoping to do some sketches today but I didn't get round to it - not sure why as I've had all day!