Starting with DCC

[Crewlisle]

I converted my layout 'Crewlisle' from DC to DCC just over three years ago. How I converted both the layout and the locos (a mixture of new and old Hornby/Bachmann/Airfix/Mainline and even a Wrenn Duchess) to DCC was featured in Model Rail October and November 2008. I use the Lenz LZV100 command box with LH90 hand controllers with the 42 locos fitted with Hornby, Bachmann, ZTC or ESU sound decoders. I have had no problems with these 'cheap and cheerful' decoders. I use Peco Code 100 track and Electrofrog points which are not fitted with polarity switches or modified in anyway with power being fed via the point blades. The main 'track bus' is 32/0.2mm to carry (if required) the full 4.3 amp continuous current of the Lenz transformer with 16/0.2mm wire for the 'droppers' from the track to the 'track bus'. Believe me, it takes a lot more wire than the 'only two wires' DCC advocates talk about!

 

'Crewlisle' will be at Taunton Railex 22 to 23 October where I will be happy to answer any of your queries.

[Matloughe]

Thank you all for your insightful replies.

 

This morning after dealing with a 'First Aid Crisis' and sending the offending adult (who should know better) to Hospital A&E I got sometime to myself, I scrubbed the rails again until they were gleaming and then attempted my spare chip in my T9 again. The short of the matter is the same result happened engine would only crawl backwards at a walking pace and refused to move forwards I then tried the decoder in a M7 as well with the same result. Also the decoder whilst in the M7 chassis gave the characteristic puff of black smoke informing me it had expired.

 

Its a good job that this morning I ordered a TCS Decoder for my EPB and an 8 Pin Digitrax one for a loco of my choice - which I think will go in my Malachite M7 so that I have a 'Branch-Line' engine to play with and get some experience with the decoders before I order more. I hope these will be far more successful then the Hornby example I have just consigned to the dustbin.

 

MudMagnet good sir, you will have a PM shortly. I was considering visiting Taunton Railex so I might pop a long to say "Hi" Crewlisle - I'll be the guy wearing a Green Power ranger t-shirt asking questions. (Hey its my favourite t-shirt!)

 

Thank you all.

~ Gary

[Ravenser]

TCS have their so-called "goof-proof" warranty whereby they will replace a failed decoder within 12 months of purchase

[250BOB]

TCS have their so-called "goof-proof" warranty whereby they will replace a failed decoder within 12 months of purchase

But is this warranty with the UK supplier, or do you have to deal direct with TCS America for warranty issues.?

Bob.

[Matloughe]

I think this is straying from the path slightly from being DCC related. Regardless of what the warranty is my first port of call is the supplier whom I purchased the decoders from. And the TCS warranty was part of what attracted me to the decoders.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Nigelcliffe]

But is this warranty with the UK supplier, or do you have to deal direct with TCS America for warranty issues.?

Bob.

 

With some retailers, the TCS Goof-proof warranty is honoured in the UK - I've used it.

You need to ask them before deciding where to purchase.

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Matloughe]

Really annoyed now.

 

I thought DCC is supposed to be easier then DC? Okay, Rant Over. I Promise.

 

Okay the postie today brought my decoders for the layout and so I've fitted them, a TCS 8-Pin DP2-LL and a TCS 21 pin EU621. Fitted the 8-Pin first into my T9 as that seemed the easiest loco to had to chip first rather then strip out an M7 and faff to get the decoder in. So I place it on the track programme the address as "09" and whoosh! Loco Takes off like a rocket and smashes into the buffers so undeterred I plonked it back on the track and programmed again. This time it won't respond to the control but accelerates, then cuts out then accelerates again - rinse & repeat.

 

So I decide to take the T9 off and instead work on the EPB manage to remove the bodywork and damage the sodding wire at the coach end - thanks Mr Bachmann... Plonk the decoder in programme it... nothing no lights, no movement - seemingly no life however you can hear there is power going to the motor and when you programme the address it moves forwards and backwards a small amount and the lights flicker on and off before going off again.

 

Any suggestions from anyone? Please?

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Oldddudders]

You do seem to have been terribly unlucky - or is there a stage in the process that has been missed? Did the loco really take off during the programming itself? Where was the programming taking place? Does the Select offer a separate programming track option? If so, I recommend you use it at this early stage.

 

Trust me - DCC isn't like this all the time!

[Matloughe]

It's just been one of those days I think.

 

I've read the TCS documentation with the decoders and I seem to be doing everything right. When I first placed the engine on the track it didn't move only after giving it an 'address' did it shoot off now whenever it is placed on the track it whizzes off. However it seems to run perfectly fine on DC power - including with the decoder still in.

 

I have read online that there was an issue with the select when it first came out and TCS Decoders - turns out the Select from the batch I have isn't entirely NRMA compliant and I think this might be the issue at hand here. The underlying fact is my Select is too shoddy to work properly. The issue with the decoders was that even setting a TCS Decoder to a low number (The select only recognises 01-59 for Loco ID) it still wont respond. Which is what I think the issue is, well its what some folks online seem to think anyway.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[smokebox]

- turns out the Select from the batch I have isn't entirely NRMA compliant and I think this might be the issue at hand here. ~ Gary

AFAIK No Select is NMRA compliant

[silverlink]

Gary,

a bit of advice I give anyone who asks me when first starting in DCC is whenever I fit a decoder to a new or used loco for the first time is first make sure the loco runs ok on DC. Provided all is working fit the decoder as per instructions & then (& this will not only protect your new decoder but also tell you if it is compatable with your loco) interrogate the decoder on your programming track. With my Lenz 100 I can check the decoder number which should read 03, this is the normal number on all decoders & as such tells me that the decoder is working. Should it read error 1 or 2 it tells me there is a fault somewhere but at the same time does not damage the decoder. I then put the loco on the track & try it out using 03 as the call up number. If it runs ok I then put it back on the programming track & reprogamme it with its own loco number. Also on the programme track I can read & ajust the settings for all the other functions. Using this system I have saved from destruction quie a few decoders, of course error 1 or 2 means the hard work then begins with trying to find out what is causing the malfunction.

cheers

silverlink

[Matloughe]

Good Morning Silverlink,

 

Yes both locos were cleaned and had been 'run-in' on DC power for sometime, the track scrubbed and then the decoder popped in.

 

The Loco and EMU were programmed on a length of straight track on their own which I plugged the Select into. I'm not entirely sure but I think the T9 did respond to the default address actually being "3" because I have a recollection of being surprised the engine had Acceleration and Deceleration pre-programmed. I think it was after this test I tried to re-number the engine to respond to "9" and this is where things start to get bizzarre. The EPB however didn't do anything no lights or movement except a jolt or two when I changed the address,

 

I was observing the motion of the locomotive it appears that the power being applied to the motor is 'pulsing' and I have noticed that if I do call up "9" and tell the locomotive to go in reverse it literally goes back and forwards within the space of 2 inches I have only done this briefly as I didn't want to destroy the motor or decoder. But even with the decoder in the engine runs fine on conventional DC Power which with these combinations is making me consider that the issue at hand here is really with the Select rather then with the decoders - most odd.

 

Looks like I will be looking for a new control system afterall...

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Nigelcliffe]

Apart from NMRA compliance, the other significant issue with the Select is the lack of a proper programming track output.

 

Standard advice when fitting a decoder is to "test read and writing to it on the programming track". This only works if you have a "proper" programming track output where there is no track power except tiny bursts (a few miliseconds) during programming. The reason for the advice is that a faulty installation will probably report back an error in programming, with no risk to the decoder chip.

 

Some cheaper systems do not have a proper programming track, but instead rely on internal switching to quickly turn off the track power during programming operations. The better of the systems with this design have clear instructions which will advise you when the track power has been turned off, and thus its safe to place the new loco on the track (which is now a programming track). The worst systems, typically sold for trainsets, don't give you clear advice.

 

 

- Nigel

[Donw]

Good Morning Silverlink,

 

Yes both locos were cleaned and had been 'run-in' on DC power for sometime, the track scrubbed and then the decoder popped in.

 

The Loco and EMU were programmed on a length of straight track on their own which I plugged the Select into. I'm not entirely sure but I think the T9 did respond to the default address actually being "3" because I have a recollection of being surprised the engine had Acceleration and Deceleration pre-programmed. I think it was after this test I tried to re-number the engine to respond to "9" and this is where things start to get bizzarre. The EPB however didn't do anything no lights or movement except a jolt or two when I changed the address,

 

I was observing the motion of the locomotive it appears that the power being applied to the motor is 'pulsing' and I have noticed that if I do call up "9" and tell the locomotive to go in reverse it literally goes back and forwards within the space of 2 inches I have only done this briefly as I didn't want to destroy the motor or decoder. But even with the decoder in the engine runs fine on conventional DC Power which with these combinations is making me consider that the issue at hand here is really with the Select rather then with the decoders - most odd.

 

Looks like I will be looking for a new control system afterall...

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

 

In cases like this you need to try your locos with another system perhaps Mudmagnet's offer is one you cannot afford to miss. As things stand you cannot be sure whether its your decoder that are playing up or the select. You need to test your locos on another system. If they work fine its the Select. If they don't work you need one loco set up on another system (with a cheap decoder) and then try that on the Select in case the Select is damaging decoders. I rather agree with Siverlink. I started with a Lens compact and have since upgraded to Lens 100. Iwas able to install decoders and gat things running with the compact with no problems. Admittedly setting CVs what not easy so I didn't bother and had no problems.

Best wishes

Don

[Matloughe]

Success!

 

I am extremely happy now; I've hooked up the new control system a Digitrax Zephyr and extremely please to report the issues with my T9 have gone away. It must've been the select playing up; the locomotive runs very smoothly and silently compared to using the Select where it was uncontrollable and very noisy. I am somewhat baffled by the steps required to programme a decoder and to get a locomotive moving however it has dawned on me how much easier it will be when I am much more familiar with the system.

 

I am now off to make a brew and read the manual much more in depth and hopefully get my 2-EPB operational on DCC.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Nigelcliffe]

There is an unofficial manual for the Zephyr in the US called "Mastering the Digitrax Zephyr" by Loy Spurlock. I think its available as an E-Book. I've not read it (it was unavailable when I needed it, and I don't think I need it now), but the book has a good reputation in the US. It will cover the old model (pre "Xtra"), but the differences between the two are fairly minor - the Xtra gets functions to F28 on the keypad and has 20 slots rather than 10 slots.

 

 

The Zephyr is fairly sensible once you get your head around a few basics. However, the Digitrax manual is moderately hard work: the information is in there, it just takes a bit of time to get to it. The index in the back helps, or if you are into computers, get a copy by download from the Digitrax website and use "search" features in most PDF readers.

 

Unless really strapped for cash, don't bother with the "Jump Port" options for old DC controllers. A Digitrax UT4 is a much superior way of adding additional control knobs.

 

- Nigel

[silverlink]

Gary,

Glad you've got sorted out with a control system. Although I have been singing the praises of Lenz I have a friend who has a massive Digitrax layout & I must admit to been impressed! Had I had a demo of this I may have gone down the Digitrax route with my layout. As it is I do have a few add-ons on my Lenz system which are Digitrax, PM42 isolating modules & Reverse loop module's on my Fleishmann turntables all work well together. Again as I said in an erlier thread if you buy a good system you will benefit from it as most are NMRA compatable. Hope you enjoy using it. Did you know Digitrax have a great internet help area (Digitrax knowlege base) try it

Cheers

Ian (silverlink)

[Oldddudders]

I second the UT4 recommendation, and use a couple in various parts of my layout. Relatively affordable, and Infra-Red ready, too.

 

Anent idiot decoders, it is by no means unknown for a decoder to lose the plot, particularly if there has been a short or similar electrical contretemps. If you can fathom out how to do it, try resetting the decoder - each make has its own method or foibles about how/whether this is possible. Putting a value of 8 into CV8 comes to mind for someone's system, but its years since I needed to do so.

 

As Nigel and Silverlink have gently pointed out, reading as much as possible is very much to be recommended in getting to grips with the finer points of DCC. There are huge areas of its potential that I have never been near even after 14 years, while some others would have leapt straight onto this or that facility that it offers. The more you read, the more you will come to make your own mind up what you want DCC to do for you. As a control system, it is very nearly all things to all men and women. Mastering the bits that you want to use is very pleasing, and enables you to run your railway your way.