Perceptions of print

[dibber25]

Chris, I can understand your frustration, but surely your efforts would be better spent on looking at WHY red death (and he's not alone) has this perception rather than shouting at him, when he is merely responding to Andy's OP, which actually asks for "perceptions".

 

Ed

 

Sorry, hadn't realised I'd shouted and certainly didn't intend to. It's just that the 'Model Rail = Modern Image' tag is something which has long caused us a great deal of frustration here and we genuinely don't know how we can convince people that it's not so. The particular irony is that the most fervent modern image modellers tell us we have too much steam coverage!

CHRIS LEIGH

[coachmann]

'Model Rail = Modern Image' tag is something which has long caused us a great deal of frustration here and we genuinely don't know how we can convince people that it's not so. The particular irony is that the most fervent modern image modellers tell us we have too much steam coverage!

This is why all things to all people fails miserably for a lot of modellers young and old. Many other persuits have focussed magazines, like you dont find cricket in a golfers magazine. I know you once said that there isn't a big enough market to support a 'Modern Imgae or D&E magazine, but is this any reason to foist such stuff on those who prefer to read about steam? All the magazines play the same 'all-scales/all-gauges/steam-electric-diesel' game and maybe it is the only way to survive. But has anyone tested the market with a steam-age only modellers magazine covering everything from locos to rolling stock to signalling to architecture? I for one would gladly subscribe and write for just such a magazine if it meant 100% of each copy contained things of interest to me instead of just 15% or whatever. Just a thought.

[dibber25]

 

What's the current circulation of Model Rail? A few years ago it was around the 36,000 issues per month mark if memory serves me. Because whatever was being written then must have been working, perhaps that's an area to look at? Which year/s sold the most and why, what articles where being printed.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

 

Model Rail was not ABC audited until it had full year's monthly issues. You normally sell more of a quarterly than you do of a monthly - a strange phenomenon, I know. The first ABC figure was 30225 if I recall correctly (It was an Adams O2 tank). My (un-achieved) ambition was to be a Merchant Navy.

The ABC figure is actual copies sold, not the print run. The newstrade sells magazines on sale or return and print runs are far higher than the number of copies actually sold - the rest get recycled.

The current ABC figure is 29817 (January-December 2010) as shown on page 3 of the mag. Circulation figures which are not backed by ABC certification should always be taken with a pinch of salt.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Revolution Mike]

That's OK Chris - I can understand your frustration, but I can also see why coachman made his comment. I definitely fall into the camp of modern image modeller that thinks MR has too much steam coverage

 

I don't envy your task. I get the impression that most of the mags are after balance and the centre ground - not at all surprising really from a commercial perspective, though personally I would hope there is room for degrees of specialisation.

 

Cheers, Mike

[dibber25]

. But has anyone tested the market with a steam-age only modellers magazine covering everything from locos to rolling stock to signalling to architecture?

 

One did. It quickly 're-aligned' its content. I wonder what the 'perception' was? Did anyone even notice?

CHRIS LEIGH

[dibber25]

If you really want to see a magazine that reached out to all the people all the time it was MR under Roy Dock and MRC under Mr Leigh

 

I think Roy had moved on by the time I was at the helm of MRC (Mr. Lowery was Editor of Model Railways, by then). I believe we had it easier then, as far as balanced content was concerned. Modern image hadn't really been around long enough to 'pose a threat' to other content. I recall publishing a letter that asked 'Why are there so few BR Blue layouts on the exhibition circuit?' Someone wrote back and said 'if the letter-writer wants BR blue layouts, why doesn't he build one?. I published that letter, too. The writer DID build one - it was Kyle of Tongue and the builder was Steve Flint. No one complained when we featured it in MRC. I did put what I believed to be the very best aspects of MRC into Model Rail and at Model Rail we developed a lot of the ideas that I could never afford to develop at MRC not least, full colour content. But times change and the hobby is very different now from 1987 when MRC closed. Some of the material which was published then would not be acceptable now, and I look back at some of my own efforts from that time and cringe. Of course, literals were with us then, just as they are now - please don't show me my MRC review of Hornby's 1980s 'Coronation' 4-6-0 !!

CHRIS LEIGH

[coachmann]

Funnily enough Chris, I was thinking similar thoughts in bed last night. Magazines were mostly steam orientated and no one gave it much consideration. That said, I remember 'Steve-Stratten' launching his road vehicle supplement (with my Crossley bus article) in MRC, as road vehicles in a railway magazine seemed to go down better than diesels! The articles written by the LMS Society and scale drawings of railway coaches have stood the test of time which, as you pointed out, is more than could be said for some of the models that were reviewed in those far off days.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I remember when I was first getting in to Railway modelling mags in the early 1980s that Model Railway Constructor had the series running on building a layout (Bodmin) and although it was a bit sporadic and seemed to go on for ever It was a series that interested me in finescale modelling, when it started to be printed on poor paper it seemed to loose its way and it didn’t seem to last too long after that.

 

Also Model Railways seemed to have the sort of articles I liked reading I remember the articles by Iain Rice on the GWR 517 plus other inspirational stuff, when it changed its name Your Model Railways and went to a to a less finescale target audience it seemed that readership dropped off and it disappeared soon after. I think the launch of MRJ was a direct response of the chance of direction of Model Railways.

 

I guess MRJ has always done its own thing and is the vision of Paul Karau rather than making sure that the content appeals to the masses, and has never been afraid of devoting the majority of one issue to one article to make sure it covered in depth. I remember Paul said some one complained there was a picture of a lorry on the front cover and the reader said if it happened again he would stop buying it so Paul put a picture of a boat on the cover of a following issue!

 

David

[Stubby47]

But has anyone tested the market with a steam-age only modellers magazine covering everything from locos to rolling stock to signalling to architecture? I for one would gladly subscribe and write for just such a magazine if it meant 100% of each copy contained things of interest to me instead of just 15% or whatever. Just a thought.

Maybe there's space for an MI-Steam magazine, alternate months to an MI-D/E magazine ??? (or a sub-section of MI devoted to Steam ?)

[Re6/6]

Coming late to this and to answer Andy's original question, I've cut down quite sharply on mag purchases and have whittled it down to just the ones that satisfy and interest me.

 

As with others MRJ is a must. I have a subscription for it. I've collected from no 0 onwards, being a 'completist'! I have such mixed views on the quality of it. Sometimes it's absolutely brilliant other times it annoys the hell out of me with nothing in it all that interests me, with the 'look how clever I am' type articles with 'I used the CNC machine in the garage/university' thus producing a beautiful creation that the average readership couldn't hope to manage! Some more colour would be a great improvement and a better photographic style. All that said I just wouldn't want to miss a copy!

 

I also subscribe to Model Rail which IMHO has really improved with the new format an as far as I am concerned is now the best 'general' modelling publication available (notwithstanding that they kindly published our layout recently!) What I like about it is the 'how to' articles and where research is done into materials that I'd never seen before or even heard of. I have most of the issues from the beginning (quarterly 8(?) page supplement) and what with the index that has been prepared by http://www.huddsrailwaymodellers.co.uk/ proves very useful indeed for reference.

 

Regarding the real railway I subscribe to Bylines which rarely disappoints with some interesting and inspirational material.

 

I gave up on RM and BRM some years ago as to my eye they both seem to be stuck in a rut and look tired.

 

I occasionally buy Continental Modeller when I see something interesting, usually the Nürnberg toyfair issue to satisfy my European interests.

 

Buying as many mags as I have over the years, I still have a load of bound MRCs, RMs from the 60s countless others including German and Swiss ones, that I've got to rationalise as the bookshelves are bending under the strain! I think that the Dart Valley magazine Syphon G van will be receiving a visit before long! So the three mentioned above will be still subscribed to and the rest will have to go! After all I can't remember when I last looked at any of the back issues.

[gc4946]

I only regularly buy Model Rail and Railway Modeller but they both complement each other in their writing and presentation styles.

RM has fewer but longer journal articles, it's better written grammatically and has fewer typos, it's better on background prototype information, especially during the steam era, when writing model reviews, but they assume someone having a grasp of the basics and a particular skill level.

Whereas MR has more shorter articles in general, include more practical "how to do" articles that encourage one to have a go, and opportunities for people to showcase their projects on their "Show and tell" pages.

RM is better at listing club and exhibition news.

 

Because of its more practical nature, over the past five years, I've retained more articles from MR than RM.

[37008]

Whilst I don't normally post anything on here (I'm holding off until I've got somthing worthwhile to post!) This topic is of great interest to me as I usually buy most of the monthly model mags to keep me occupied during my travels at work.

 

Firstly, I am a fervent standard gauge D&E era modeller this however does not really influence my choice of magazine as I am just as happy to read quality and inspiring articles on Steam, Narrow gauge prototypes and have found that I have learnt a lot from these (for example I was hooked on a layout in a recent magazine that featured a narrow gauge sand quarry in 7mm, which was completely outside of my normal interests). I therefore find it strange that some modellers will not read certain magazines because of a perceived steam or diesel bias and can't help but think they may be missing out on some great layouts / articles, for me I couldn't care less as long as the articles / layoust are "quality" and not just space fillers.

 

As for my perception of the actual magazines:

 

Model Rail - always a generally good read with at least one article of particular interest. I do however feel that over the last few years the general quality of the layouts and articles featured has declined, also I think the "top 10 ways to ..." Articles and suchlike are a bit gimnmicky and do not have any real substance.

 

Hornby Mag - almost always features a quality layout (maybe layouts which at one time would have been featured in MR?) As a proffesional railwayman I do however find the prototype articles a bit basic and "broad brush" I also question the accuracy of these articles at times. I also find some of the staff layout articles a bit basic, sometimes feeling a bit like filler rather than a quality article.

 

Railway Modeller - always a good read, however too many advertisements and the format is showing its age.

 

BRM - probably my least favourite, I can usually read a whole issue without seeing anything outstanding. I feel BRM needs to really raise its game.

 

MRJ - packed full of inspirational articles (not that I could acheive the standard of most of the models in this mag!) Could however do with a bit of modernisation, including more colour.

 

[Kenton]

Maybe there's space for an MI-Steam magazine, alternate months to an MI-D/E magazine ??? (or a sub-section of MI devoted to Steam ?)

or a sub-section of MI-D/E devoted to something other than bl@@dy Class 37s !

 

I still do not quite understand what is "modern" and think that we all have different opinions exactly where the boundary lies. Is it just a steam vs diesel thing? It certainly isn't for me. It is just that the diesels I am interested in (Industrial and shunters) seem very rarely covered by any of the magazines. Modern in many respects are the abundance of articles and layouts about the large diesels and worse, the MU s of today's railway. On other occasions with my other modeller's hat on anything post nationalisation is ultra-modern with post-grouping being at the periphery of my interest. Most of the mags seem to ignore this period.

 

But part of this I think depends on how you are looking at the contents - if your focus is very narrow then all magazines will be biased against your interest. We see it about the different scales as well as eras and even companies. Too many GWR BLT layouts and nothing in 2mm anyone?

[coachmann]

Good, pass it on!, there are so many railway modellers of all genre's whom are so blinkered to their specific interest that they don't realise theres a whole world of info out there, both analogue and digital that they are missing

Blinkered? Gawd, it's a poor show when folk can't decide what aspect of railway modelling they wish to persue without being labelled blinkered. The idea that we should remain 'general enthusiasts' all our lives might suit some folk, but some of us happened to spit the pips out of the things we weren't interested in early on in life and begin to specialise. Could be why some folk stop buying magazines.

[Andy Y]

 

Unbelievable! as Victor Meldrew would have said. Where do people get these ideas, and why perpetuate them when they are simply WRONG?

Just shows that when you ask for 'perceptions' there's a narrow gap between that and 'misconceptions'. Sorry, I guess the magazine folk aren't really intended to get involved in this particular thread so I'll 'butt out'.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Just to prove that editorial teams cannot please everyone I've just seen the following on Model Rail's facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8541563&l=5e6964ff49&id=176420418206

 

I really hope it's not all steam related. Way too much steam over past few months guys,been pretty disappointing , not sure I'll be renewing my subscription

 

[RedgateModels]

Oh dear, that particular subscriber will be disappointed with my 2-8-2 article then ......

[Buckjumper]

Picking up PMP's point, which ties in with the quote in Andy's post, in the vast majority of places the general infrastructure remained intact for many years post-dieselisation. It's got nothing to do with not being able to decide what you'd like to pursue without being labelled blinkered, but if you're modelling the late 60s, early 70s (and in some places, even later) then much of the civil engineering, the buildings and general form of the trackwork of the steam years was still in place, even if in an altered state for the new form of traction, and a modeller of that period eschewing steam discards a valuable source of verisimilitude.

[Kenton]

...and a modeller of that period eschewing steam discards a valuable source of verisimilitude.

However the opposite most certainly does not apply.

 

Modellers seeing concrete and metal bus shelters, multi indicator boards for signalling, and tower blocks or concrete car parks hardly have any relevance when modelling an era before these were conceived.

[Buckjumper]

Concrete has been a staple of railway superstructure for decades. An article on a well-modelled modern concrete building should be invaluable to many, and not just those of a Southern persuasion.

[Ozexpatriate]

I wanted to hold back any observations on this thread for a while now since I don't get any of the British publications and can't make any authorative statements about any of them.

 

For people that haven't developed a lot of hands on experience, or who are going through the throes of developing that experience, the general purpose magazines (in my case for North American subjects, Model Railroader) are fine. Having said that, axiomatically, you can't please everybody.

 

A common theme expressed by many here suggests what kind of magazine would appeal to people who are neither beginners or let's say 'journeyman hobbyists', but people who have developed areas of expertise?

 

Perhaps they have enough knowledge that they could publish articles (should they want to) in areas where they feel very competent, but still want to read in-depth material about areas where they don't feel as expert.

 

It seems to me that a very big part of what RMweb sets out to do is address precisely this need. The work involved to generate suitable in-depth articles for publication - either on-line or in print, isn't easy. I think this explains the sarcity of this material, except perhaps an impression I've formed about MRJ and which also explains why so many people move away from subscribing to the general purpose magazines as their individual knowledge grows.

[trisonic]

D'oh! I thought this topic was "Perceptions of a Pint"!

 

I'm due for an eye check up.

 

Best, Pete.

[pirouets]

Since this thread started I have been pondering my habit of buying Railway Modeller each month and occasionally other magazines, and i think the conclusion is the one thing the magazine has on a regular basis, that until recently was not on the web is the complete layout article, and Railway Modeller has the most layout content per month, hence why I buy it now.

 

The layout articles feed my imagination and helps me with ideas of what I could achieve, ideas that do not work for me and point me at things to look in to.

 

Whilst I am starting to read articles on how to do smaller things such as build wagons, I am far less likely to part with money for a magazine for that sort of article given what I can find on the web, but it does not mean I do not flick back on a regular basis to see what I do have sitting on a shelf.

[cactustrain]

Two dislikes when it comes to magazines:

• Nauseatingly immodest style of journalism: It’s up to the readers to decide what’s ‘stunning’
  
• Not following up on what was promised the previous month
  

[Will Vale]

I buy Railway Modeller most months, and Continental Modeller every month sight-unseen. Like others have said, I've been very impressed at how they've managed to "stealth" modernise the layouts. I think they maybe use CM to try things out which then get fed to RM if they prove successful. RM has got much better for D&E modellers in the last few years than it was, I think their pro-steam bias was strong to the point of objectionable and they now seem better able to recognise that steam and D&E both have their place. That's never been a problem in CM that I can tell. I'd like to see more narrow-gauge content in RM though!

 

Both magazines have very attractive (IMO) clean page design with enough white space, and since they started using more full bleed photos I think they've more-or-less eliminated the lead Model Rail had in that department. They seem to have more layout articles, and I go back to those (and the prototype ones) quite a bit. Particularly with CM, when I find a new prototype interest I go back through all my issues looking for relevant articles and layouts - very useful.

 

Neither seem to have many in-house "How To" articles although that's changed a bit in RM over the last year. But they do have really good in-depth how-to content from contributors. I think Emmanuel Nouaillier's articles in CM are the sine qua non of that kind of thing - they break down quite advanced techniques (in terms of results) into steps that are easily digested and understood, and are excellently photographed to boot.

 

I can't comment on the review accuracy since I don't know enough about the prototypes, but I like looking at the pictures of new things at least

 

I buy Model Rail occasionally, usually for a layout article I want to read (e.g. Warren Lane recently) or something like Chris Nevard's Pendon pictures, but I find the magazine feels cheap (and yet it's significantly dearer than MR/CM over here in New Zealand) - too much colour and noise in the layouts and big black heading type which give it a vaguely tabloid feel. I want to like it more because it can cover some interesting stuff (e.g. the article on converting a Network Rail 150 using the PHD kit) but it's more of a read through and pass on to someone else job for many issues. Lots of how-to articles in this one but they feel a bit like advertising for particular glues and products sometimes - I don't know if that's intentional, but it can come across that way. I would prefer more layout articles.

 

I used to get Model Railroader in the '80s and 90's and found it incredibly inspirational back then, but recently it just seems dominated by advertising, very light on content. I still skim it when I go to guild meetings because the host club gets it on subscription.

 

I buy the Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette when I'm in the 'States - I'm a big narrow gauge fan and this mag covers both prototype and model quite well. It has more non-US subjects than I expected it to as well - for example Christopher Payne's layouts appear in this one.

 

My favourite mag of all, on the basis on a few issues I bought last year, is RAIL magazine from the Netherlands. It has a similar feel to CM (and they share some content, there are lots of Len de Vries photos in CM) but has very in-depth prototype news and information (it's a real railway/model railway crossover mag) and is full of beautiful prototype photography. They pick some terrific layouts to showcase, go into plenty of detail, and the writing style is warm and engaging. It's also attractively designed and printed on good quality paper. I really should get a subscription.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[2ManySpams]

I wanted to hold back any observations on this thread for a while now since I don't get any of the British publications and can't make any authorative statements about any of them.

 

For people that haven't developed a lot of hands on experience, or who are going through the throes of developing that experience, the general purpose magazines (in my case for North American subjects, Model Railroader) are fine. Having said that, axiomatically, you can't please everybody.

 

A common theme expressed by many here suggests what kind of magazine would appeal to people who are neither beginners or let's say 'journeyman hobbyists', but people who have developed areas of expertise?

 

Perhaps they have enough knowledge that they could publish articles (should they want to) in areas where they feel very competent, but still want to read in-depth material about areas where they don't feel as expert.

 

It seems to me that a very big part of what RMweb sets out to do is address precisely this need. The work involved to generate suitable in-depth articles for publication - either on-line or in print, isn't easy. I think this explains the sarcity of this material, except perhaps an impression I've formed about MRJ and which also explains why so many people move away from subscribing to the general purpose magazines as their individual knowledge grows.

 

Nail hit bang on head.