IanLister Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 The latest photo's are fantastic, the whole thing just oozes atmosphere!!! The earlier yellow glow photos were fine too - I thought they must have been taken at sunset :-) Ian Thanks Ian. They weren't taken at sunset, just at a point before I adjusted the white balance on the camera.............. :rolleyes: Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Superb progress. How have you done the setts if you don't mind me asking? I'm currently trying a few methods with varying degrees of success. Hi Mark. I'm from Leeds...Armley to be exact, but not for a long time! The setts are scribed, with a needle in a pin vice, into a layer of lightweight filler (Polycell Onefill). Precoloured with acrylic paint, and then colour varied with weathering dyes, followed by ground pastel brushed into the gaps and a drybrushed coat of matte medium to seal it. PM me by all means if you need more info. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc256 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks Ian. Do you let the filler set before scribing? Will have to give it a try and see if I can get results anywhere near the quality of yours. I'm from Alwoodley originally and now living in Hunslet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hello Visible progress on Spittal Yard has slowed a little in the last couple of days, as I've been struggling to find an acceptable way to the get the look I want for the track in the sidings area......old, not brilliantly maintained, and buried in ash and dirt and stuff. I think ballasting the running lines, with a fairly level application of cleaner ash ballast, will actually be easier, but time will tell. Here are some more photos of various bits of the progress to date.....firstly, a shot of the goods yard from the dock road. It's the kind of view I found irresistible as a kid; those big wide entrances used to whisper in my ear to forget about things like trespassing and just sneak in for a look round: The old wooden building next to the entrance was originally the cart shed, with a larger entrance round the corner, but since the putting out to grass of the railway horses it's been commandeered by the yard staff as a mess room. Presumably the cart shed bit is now full of teabags (1958? OK, maybe not....): The fish market on a quiet day....the fleet is obviously at sea: The coble landing in daylight; I used to spend hours as a kid sitting on steps like these watching the boats and trains and world go by: The yard foreman's office, together with various items waiting for a train to call by.........the roof illustrates my mark 2 way of doing roof slates, which is a lot quicker and I believe more authentic-looking than my first attempts on the fish market roof: And finally a shot of the yard showing the 4 ton crane and a bit of the track I've been scratching my head over for the last few days: Exciting times at Spittal Yard today, though.....the yard foreman has just taken delivery of his new car,and 2 more delivery vehicles have been brought in to handle the increasing flow of local goods traffic. Sea View Foundry has just won a big contract with the Forestry Commission; more on this in my next post. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lighting is better which means you can now truly see the sensational colours, detail and atmosphere! Yes, really, you can see the atmosphere! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hello One of the things that attracted me to the concept on which I've based the B, TD and S is the operational potential and variety offered by a historical/hypothetical basis for traffic. Here's an example, based on the 'real' story of Spittal and its history (though I'm starting to believe my version.........): The biggest industry in Spittal in the early 19th c was an ironworks, which closed in 1845 when the owner went bankrupt. The coming of the railway, and in particular the building of the Royal Border Bridge in 1850, changed all this. Thomas Black, who had started a foundry in Swinton in the Borders and then moved to Ford Forge in North Northumberland, won the contract to supply shovels, picks etc to the contractor building the Royal Border. He needed to expand massively to meet this demand, and so moved to Spittal and opened the quaintly named Sea View Works; coal was readily available from Scremerston Pit, and the dunes were considered a useful place to dump the waste (!!!?). Black's Spades and Shovels became well known, the workforce of 80 men and boys producing 600 a day for export throughout the world, and to meet contracts with mines and shipyards and other industries. The iron was imported through Tweed Dock from Germany, and the handles were from local ash. Production shifted to steel, and the business was taken over by A and F Parkes of Birmingham in the early 1900s, but kept the name. Parkes moved to Spittal as the main operational base of the company, which continued to expand, meeting War Dept contracts in both world wars and continuing to supply the coal industry. Forestry and drainage tools were also supplied under contract to the Ministry of Agriculture when Kielder Forest was started. In the real world, Spittal Foundry closed in 1953 when Parkes moved all their production back to Birmingham (Sea View Works remains to this day, as a printing works), but in my version of events it remains, as a classic example of how an improved design for the local railway infrastructure would have provided better support for longer to the local economy. Kielder Dam will be built, and the ECML improvements carried out, with tools from Spittal Foundry, and I may even have one of their spades to dig my garden.........OK, I'll go have a lie down in a dark room . Anyway, here are a couple of photos of packing cases full of picks and shovels (scale 5ft long...that's a whole centimetre!..still easier than making the individual tools though) being loaded from the newly arrived BR flatbed for shipment to the Waverley route and Kielder: I think I'm starting to live in an alternative, and rather miniaturised, reality........ Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hi The fish quay at Spittal sends a large amount of the catch quite long distances as a result of its proximity (3 miles via the branch) to Berwick and the ECML. Vans are taken to Berwick and attached to fast trains to the West Riding, the Midlands and occasionally further afield, as well as serving the Border towns and the Waverley route. The fish market has its own refrigeration plant, and its own water tank to feed it and for the cleaning of what is a very busy area quite a lot of the time. The water tank needs one or two more details and a coat of paint/rust/ gunge, and the platform and storage shed need finishing, but I thought I would post these 3 pics of the work in progress: Val and I are on the 0721 from Berwick tomorrow, to Glasgow for the exhibition; I'm really lucky to share my life with a lady who loves the hobby, railway history and the project I'm involved in. She's my biggest critic! Looking forward to hopefully meeting one or two people from here Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'll be on the WRHA stand in a red shirt Ian. Make yourself known! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hello After a very rewarding trip to the Glasgow exhibition yesterday, today has seen me getting the area outside the fish market a bit further along. The water tank, fuel tanks and store for the refrigeration plant in the fish market are nearly finished, as is the area of ground cover around them, though the weathering of the latter is still wet and not finished yet, and the fish market siding is still work in progress: I have included a close up shot of the store; by comparing the stonework of the face of the store with the face of the wall behind, you can see the difference between a wet toothbrush and a dry one!! I'm currently considering a major change in the plan as a result of the Glasgow visit, and a long thinking session on the train home; I'll update on this when I've got a clear vision for the change, as I'd appreciate some opinions before deciding. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hello This and the next post document a train of thought which is leading me to a change of plan for the layout, and I'm posting the thinking in the hope of receiving some sound and constructive opinions. Apologies to anyone who's reading this just to look at the pictures........ While visiting the Glasgow show last weekend, 2 thoughts were turning over in my mind. Firstly, I started to wish my layout, which is designed to be transportable but fits round 3 walls of a 15' x 8' room, with the viewing/operating area on the inside, was being built in such a way that I could exhibit it should anyone be daft enough to invite. Obviously the U shape would not work. Secondly, the 3 part plan: Spittal Yard, then Tweed Dock, then Tweedmouth station is a bit of a squeeze, and compromises had to be made in the spacing between the 3 elements, making it a bit unrealistic. It's also a little over ambitious, as Tweedmouth would require 4 platforms, a medium sized goods yard and loco facilities to work realistically. I originally thought to include Tweedmouth simply because I wanted to run coaching stock and passenger locos, but the plan is such that these would leave the storage sidings and enter the station almost immediately, only to return the same way and disappear from view.....hardly a decent return on the investment and work involved! So.......is there a way of solving these problems without starting over, which I have no intention of doing? Can I make the layout exhibitable? Can I give Tweed Dock the space it deserves, and create the prototypical ½ mile or so between Spittal and Tweed Dock? Can I make it more buildable (prefer this to less ambitious!) without losing operational potential and interest? (I like playing trains....) The simple answer is to scrap Tweedmouth station, and have Spittal yard on one side with Tweed Dock on the other, and my first thought was to do this, keeping the U shape for home use but building a single extra board about 5' long which would simply be single line running along riverbank, which would allow me to join the 2 elements in a straight line. The 'exhibition' format would actually be more realistic in shape than the 'home' format, with its 180 degree curve. The straight line length, storage sidings-Tweed Dock-Spittal Yard would be 18-20'. Much quicker and easier to finish, and the only real downside being the loss of passenger traffic....Tweedmouth would be 'offscene' to the north. By the time we got to Edinburgh I'd pretty much decided to go down this route. However, I'd failed to take into consideration the views of Spittal's business community........a report of a meeting between Spittal's civic representatives and the NER follows in the next post, and has a major bearing on what I've decided to do, unless any wise and experienced person on here gives me a better plan. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 The following is a continuation of the previous post, and provides the convenient 'fictional history' to allow me to change my plans: In 1902 the conglomeration of 4 fertiliser factories and 2 chemical works on Spittal Point were taken over by the owners of the largest, and became United Chemicals of Spittal. The directors, within 6 months of increasing output as a result of the merger, approached the NER to create an industrial spur onto the point. This would involve extending the line from the end of the goods arrival road, across the road junction at the north end of Spittal Main Street, then curving to the East towards the point....this would provide access to any of Spittal Point's industries which were interested and able to link to it. While the NER were considering this request, they became aware of an increasing demand for a small passenger station in Spittal itself; the successful development of local industry had led to greater affluence and mobility amongst an increasing population, and the holiday accommodation on offer in Spittal was growing apace, with many of the inland Borders towns using Spittal as a holiday and day trip destination, and increasing numbers of visitors coming from the Forth-Clyde area and Tyneside. The dignitaries of Spittal would support the building of railway facilities to provide for this traffic along the west side of Main Street, as long as the visiting trains could be stable at Berwick, reducing the need for sidings for train storage at Spittal, which has limited space available as a result of the steepness of the hillsides leading up from the shore. There was also an increasing demand in the town, both domestic and industrial, for coal from Scremerston Colliery, a couple of miles to the south and close to the ECML. This coal, since the waggonway became defunct, had been slowly and laboriously brought to Spittal by horse and cart..not a satisfactory situation. As the NER directors looked at these demands upon the railway, they realised that there was a simple solution to all of them. If the Spittal line were continued to the south to link with the ECML at Scremerston, all the demands could be met and more. A plan was prepared for submission to Parliament, on the following basis: The goods arrival road at Spittal Yard would become a through line to the south. It would cross the dock road and follow the line of the main street through a single platform station with bay and loop, leaving Spittall to the south before climbing to join the ECML 3 miles to the south, near Scremerston Colliery. This would allow excursion trains from Tyneside to enter Spittal directly, and give access to the south for a stopping service from Berwick to Alnwick via the shore branch; excursion trains from the Borders and north would use the station also, and empty stock would be stabled at Berwick. This line would also allow Scremerston coal directly into Spittal by rail, and access to goods traffic to and from the south. An industrial spur would leave this line immediately after it crossed the dock road and swing to the east onto the point, providing access to the industries on the point. The building of this extension to the branch would satisfy all the demands being made of the NER, and the company's directors considered it would be money well spent.....the plans were placed before the relevant authorities. In terms of the model, my revised plan for Tweed Dock and Spittal Yard only as outlined in the previous post would now extend to the building of the line to the south and the industrial spur. The line to the south would enter storage sidings shortly after passing through Spittal Station. I could run through branchpassenger and terminating excursion traffic, and an increased and more varied range of goods traffic. It would extend the length of the 'straight' format by 7', while still fitting into the space for the 'home' format. The increased requirement would be for buildings and scenery, which appears to be the bit I'm best at and enjoying immensely, so it fits the bill. The extra trackwork required would be much less than the Tweedmouth station plan, and it would be much cheaper and easier to build. I would welcome opinions on this plan before deciding; there are many people reading this thread whose opinions I have already come to regard highly, and their advice is eagerly sought. Oh, and I apologise for what some may see as a longwinded bout of navel-gazing.... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Right, Ian - boiling this pan of marmalade down: we lose Tweedmouth's visual potential, but regain passenger interest in a Silloth-like excursion destination with its principal raison d'etre a somewhat fortified commodities trade. If I've summarized this right in my mind's eye, then I like it very much. I prefer it to the almost incidental inclusion of Tweedmouth, which could probably not be done justice. I think the backstory is bang-on, and given the skills being amply demonstrated so far, I'm looking forward to seeing the new features take form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks for the input 'CHARD. From what I know of Silloth the comparison is a good one. Yes, I lose the medium sized branch terminus, but the plan to squeeze it into space on a riverbank between 2 bridges was always stretching credibility a bit. I'll actually have more variety of passenger stock over the whole length with the new plan; not just excursion traffic but a shuttle service to Berwick and a stopper from Berwick to Alnmouth and Alnwick. I'll be able to do the industrial area more justice; it's a quirky place (see Aerofilms photos of Spittal and tweedmouth from around 1930) and deserves to be modelled. I envisage ICI taking over the United Chemicals concern in around 1935..... I've also worked out that given the extra space for Tweed Dock, I can build it pretty much to scale, which is quite an exciting idea. I'll try and find a way of posting a trackplan when I've redrawn it. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Go for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Ian there is nothing wrong with a U shape, I quite like being able to stand in the middle of the layout and soak up the atmosphere. A home and away set up is a good plan too, the single line bits allow for some sweeping scenery which always looks good in 2mm and as you say can be quick to build. Can't wait to see how the next board turns out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'll try and find a way of posting a trackplan when I've redrawn it. Ian Hi Ian, Sounds good. It's always good to question and re-question what we are doing...and design changes along the way are a natural progression. I think if you were happier with the new solution by the time the train arrived in Edinburgh then that must mean something. I am unfamiliar with the area so a revised track plan of what you are proposing (back of an envelope doodle even) would certainly help on here...and may even crystalise it for you to see it on paper? This is a model that really needs to be exhibited... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hello Further to my posts yesterday, which must have seemed mightily confusing to anyone not familiar with the area (which is nearly everyone......) I have created a couple of quick sketch plans to show the changes. First, the outline plan I've been working to: Next, a similar outline plan to show the new idea. The main differences are: no Tweedmouth station modelled, but through running, greater working variety and the modelling of Spittal Point and station. I'm much happier with it: And lastly, a sketch plan of the area, showing how the B, TD and S (dotted line) fits in to the local area, and the extent of the line depicted by the model: The new plan will be easier, quicker and cheaper to implement, and will be closer to prototype in its depiction of the area. The station at Spittal will probably be modelled on Whittingham on the Alnwick and Cornhill branch. It's a beautiful prototype, a contemporary design by the same architect as the B, TD and S, and it's been well-documented and photographed. And it's only about 15 miles away....... Thanks for the comments and interest...it really does help a lot. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nice simple descriptive sketches Ian - I can see why you are much happier with it. You still get to run passenger stock and retain the 'train in the landscape' feel without it feeling cramped. Bring it on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nice simple descriptive sketches Ian - I can see why you are much happier with it. You still get to run passenger stock and retain the 'train in the landscape' feel without it feeling cramped. Bring it on Quick work, eh? Actually I read your request for a sketch plan just after I finished drawing it. Great minds, etc. Work will commence on the breaching of the wall at the end of the goods arrival road later today, so the through line tracklaying can commence. I'm still going to finish board 1 first though, 'cos I want to play with it....... One great advantage will be the modelling of Tweed Dock to scale, pretty much. It's a really nice place. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just an idea, but how about making the profiles of the two joints between the end 'U' and the two sides the same so that you could set the side parts of the layout facing inwards at home and outwards to exhibit? Or you could just connect the two sides for a shorter, straight layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just an idea, but how about making the profiles of the two joints between the end 'U' and the two sides the same so that you could set the side parts of the layout facing inwards at home and outwards to exhibit? Or you could just connect the two sides for a shorter, straight layout. Thanks for the idea. I'm going to build a straight 5' board with simple single track along the river bank which will replace the end 'U' for exhibition use. I could also set it up like that in the hall or even outside...on the railway bridge in the garden maybe...that'd make a good photo! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I like the look of the new plan Ian. From local knowledge, I'd say Spittal station could be up behind Middle Street. Could be a fair old climb up to the main line with the junction up near the bridge at the end of Cow Road. Perfectly plausible though in my opinion. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I like the look of the new plan Ian. From local knowledge, I'd say Spittal station could be up behind Middle Street. Could be a fair old climb up to the main line with the junction up near the bridge at the end of Cow Road. Perfectly plausible though in my opinion. Dave. Ah, the joy of conversing with someone who actually knows the place!! I've been using the 1899 OS map (1;2500) to plan, Dave, and at that time Middle St would appear to have been a bit of a jumble of old and not particularly significant properties...ideal for a railway baron to bulldoze through, in fact. So the station will follow the line of Middle St, parallel to Spittal Main St; otherwise I'd have to knock down several pubs, god forbid!! And then there's the smugglers and the local mafia to consider........The junction near Cow Road Crossing sounds like a good idea; I had thought a little further south to ease the gradient. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hello....an update but no more pics just yet, I'm afraid. We've been busy this last week helping my daughter relocate to her new job/new flat/new life in a beautiful part of North Yorks...that keeps me away from the layout till about Sunday evening,but she's worth it . I've spent a lot of time planning and researching to see if my proposed change to make the layout through-running with a station at Spittal are viable in terms of prototype realism, operational interest and practical buildiing issues. It is going to happen, and will, I believe, take the layout to a new dimension both operationally abd visually, and I'm really excited by it. I'll post a trackplan and some operational details in due course. I've been concentrating my efforts, in an on/off kind of way due to the activities above, along the quayside. The time-consuming business of creating the ground layer in the docks area is proceeding, and I've started building a boat building and repair yard at the opposite end of the quay to the fish market. There was one in this area, about 200 yds further north, but it gradually faded away as the economy of the area dwindled, leaving the small shipyard in Berwick and the slipway at Tweed Dock to support the floating population. In my version of history, it's all a bit busier, and the Spittal boatbuilders and fixers have moved down the river a little to Spittal and built a small yard. From the modelling point of view it's a pretty complicated thing to recreate, and is stretching my skills a little...or maybe a lot. I had a major disaster early in the process, as a result of a mistake I won't be making again: I went to add a little PVA to part of the quay wall near the entry to the goods yard, and the faulty top flew off the bottle, depositing a pool of PVA about a foot across on the end of the layout. The turnout at the yard entry disappeared completely under the flood, and the landscaping opposite the coal yard entry was drowned in a sticky sea of white. It took me a day and a half to clear it up; it's weird, but the feeling of shock and loss when I saw it spreading, and thought of the hours spent building it (it was the first turnout on the layout), made me realise just how important this rather new hobby has become!! Not quite like someone stealing your children, but......... It's sorted now, new H and S procedures have been introduced and the manager of the local DIY store who sold me the faulty glue bottle has been invited to visit and have a look, following the conversation I had with him when I took the bottle back and discovered he is a local railway fan! When the boatyard is finished I'll post some pics, but it might be another day or two...... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 Glad you rescued it from the PVA incident Ian...been there myself a few times too...do I ever learn Look forward to see the new trackplan and next movements on the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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