Cliff Williams Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Production Deltic - L H Loveless & Co Exciting times ahead for the Loveless Deltic in O gauge -production has commenced! With delivery due around Telford 2013 we are fast approaching a closing date for specific customer requests. 100 Deltics are being produced spread across the following eras: all green, green with small yellow panel, green with large yellow end, D9xxx BR blue, 9xxx BR Blue, TOPS BR Blue, refurbished BR Blue, FP white window surrounds, preservation BR Blue. 100 models have been ordered made up of specific customer requests and models for stock, so please act now as the closing date is looming very very fast for specific requests! Once the deadline is passed prospective buyers will have to choose from the unallocated stock and eras chosen by Lawrie. Delivery looks to be on target for September 2013. http://www.loveless....ion_deltic.html Edit 07/07/2012: new sound system for the Loveless Deltic, go to post 22 for full details.(video features DJH Deltic test mule for DCC sound)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0G7f6Zqp5055 022 Royal Scots Grey – first sample with detail changes to be made.Featuring correct bogies, plated over small cab window, no sand box fillers, correctly positioned traction motor air intake grilles, detailed fuel tanks, working sprung bogies, lights and many more features still to be decided on.We will be producing models spanning all eras so please reserve early (no deposit required) to ensure we have your model that you would like as finely detailed as we can make it!D9009 Alycidon – first sample with detail changes to be made.Featuring correct cast bogies, no sandbox fillers, correctly positioned traction motor air intake grilles, detailed fuel tanks, working sprung bogies, lights and many more features still to be decided on.We will be producing models spanning all eras so please reserve early (no deposit required) to ensure we have your model that you would like as finely detailed as we can make it!L H Loveless invite your input so we can make these locos as accurate as possible, we are thankful for the assistance from members of The Deltic Preservation Society but would be delighted to hear what you would like to see on these models.Featuring all axle drive system and superb detailing we aim to build on the success of our Prototype Deltic which won Model of the Year 2009.Lawrie looks forward to seeing you at Warley - I am not able to be there myself this time.The models will be available for DC or DCC sound operation and will have full lighting, on DCC I intend to add some nice touches.I have refined the installation of SWD DCC sound for Lawrie in his Prototype Deltic, gaining benefits from the Loveless brass Deltic body over a resin or plastic body, with extensive testing of many techniques.Over the coming months we hope to take Deltic DCC sound reproduction forward so the models are superb in every way.Edit: here are some pictures of the Prototype Deltic that Lawrie produced which won Model of the Year 2009 - last few remain of this model now.Bookmark this http://www.loveless....ion_deltic.html to follow progress as Lawrie progresses towards completion of this new project in 2012. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 They certainly look like Deltics to me Cliff, really capture the shape well. As you are asking for info on these models I take it that someone has nicked the crests and rear arrow on 55022? Also 55022 in preservation only has one windy wiper per window. It also runs on fabricated bogies not cast. D9009 seems to have lost its battery vents. Are those totems a bit large? I can't find any pictures of it with dominos in the headcode box. Is the ETH correctly represented on this as in preservation it's tucked down on the bufferbeam. I fully appreciate that these are pre production models that have no doubt been hurried along for Warley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 and the price is expected to be ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi Brian I have edited the original post to show the Prototype Deltic which has the fabricated bogies under it, this shows that Lawrie has now produced both types of bogie. When the first sample of the Prototype Deltic arrived it was in brass and many changes took place between the brass sample and the model you see above, by having the Production Deltic delivered painted helps with the process of refinement in particular for the two tone green as applied to D9009. The totems on the green Deltic are oversized and will be rectified, the blue Deltic has only been transferred up on one end due to time constraints. When Lawrie produced his O Gauge LNER A1s and A3s he ended up with multiple specification drawings for each model and each era so that unique and specific details could be incorporated into each loco, he wants to do exactly the same for the Production Deltics. We have time and do not intend to rush the models, hopefully aiming for a delivery fourth quarter 2012, but this depends on getting it right, rather than delivering a Deltic which has errors. One thing that is very apparent is the tumblehome which is present on this model, which follows through to prototypical width fuel tanks! The exhaust ports themselves are a minefield, highlighted by a Deltic Preservation Society member over the last few weeks while discussing the first samples as they were produced. There are differences between the GA drawings and the locos as built, which if observed will have you position grilles in the wrong place and throw off the livery application, so the reason why you see a green D9009 is as much checking positions as anything else. Detail differences for models like wiper blades, bogies etc will be noted and incorporated into the specification drawings for each Deltic produced. We know there are many important aspects to these wonderful machines and we want to make sure they are correct with external input welcomed. With this input along with the massive Deltic Preservation Society factfiles they should turn out to be fine models. If you have a detail that you think should be incorporated into your Loveless Deltic then do get in touch with Lawrie (or me!) two tone green - the Production Deltic has been on the price list at £2000 for a while and barring unforeseen circumstances hope to bring them at this price, or thereabouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks, looking forward to seeing the completed model when released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 For specifics of different locos, it might be worth getting hold of a copy of Ian Strange's Deltic DeMythology. Looking at the photos at the beginning of this thread... there seems something odd about the body side windows (position?) or relationship to cant grill louvres... can't tell what, maybe just the image. I'm sure it's been well checked.. and I'm sure that Brian Hansonw ill be looking and commenting too... I'll let him be the judge. Cant quite tell from the photos... does the cab roof taper from cab rear to cab front... as it should, and which the Heljan one fails to do? Finally, the cover over the coolant header tank.. between the fan grills has the rectangular extension on both sides - down A and B side.. not just down the B side.. today 22 has the dual extensions at the No. 2 end only.. so over engine No. 2. The photo of 22 looks a little off in the roof centre panel. The original boiler exhaust.. shown with cover, was different on 22... it was one of two to have the exhaust surround removed and the flush hole plated over (9006 was the other one). Other variants were on 20 and 21 which didn't have the original exhaust so there was no hole to plate over... 55010 possibly got 20's roof in 1980.. appearing without the blanked exhaust port. I'm not quite sure why the image of Alycidon has the fuel tank guage on the wrong tank... it would be on the tank to the left when viewed on each side.. not the right as shown here. The battery louvres, as mentioned by Brian D, above, were added to D9009 by May 1966 (according to Ian Strange's book)... so could depict a 1962-1964 "look".. especially as it has the rounded upper and lower yellow warning panel which it had from mid '62, lossing it to a rounded upper/squared off lower corners panel in the mid '60's. No Dominoes then and ETH/ETS was added to 9009 in 1970... BUT, 9009 got the cast bogies 17th Oct 1965... so you'd be tied to a late 1965 depiction. However... the buffers look to be the later type, and 9009 didn't get these until May 1973.. not long before he [Alyicdon's a he... only Meld is a "she"] became 55009. Before that, the buffers were the same as those used on class 84s. 4-digit reporting code required.. obviously (not domino)... and the lavatory wastepipe at the no. 2 end should be there on the bufferbeam... brake pipes woudl be straight left to right, not kinked as later. So... I do not agree that this is a depiction of 9009 as preserved.. but close to how she'd looked in late 65.. with some tweeking. The fuel tanks look better than Bachmann and Heljan's attempts... will they have the revised vents for the modified fuel tanks (late 1960s)? ok.. so I'm being pedantic here.. but it'll be good to get it right, wouldn't it. All the above infor is from Ian's book... as I mentioned, it's worth having a copty of if these machines interest you. Ian can be contacted at ian@ac2litre.com if a copy is desired. Finally... is there any chance of improving the view through the bodyside windows... so an impression of a pair of D18-25Bs would be superb. This is a good start.. I hope that the result will live up to the expectation presented by DP1... Goodluck. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Here are some more pictures of the first samples produced. Lawrie is gathering together all the different specifications for each model to be produced, pricing and pre-order options will be published shortly, with a view to delivery September 2012 at Telford Guildex. Input from the Deltic Preservation Society and individuals has been greatly appreciated which will help make this Deltic as accurate as possible. We will get them up on http://www.loveless....ion_deltic.html in due course, but here is a sneak RMweb preview! For specifics of different locos, it might be worth getting hold of a copy of Ian Strange's Deltic DeMythology So... I do not agree that this is a depiction of 9009 as preserved.. but close to how she'd looked in late 65.. with some tweeking............. This is a good start.. I hope that the result will live up to the expectation presented by DP1... Goodluck. Jon Thanks Jon for taking the time to give so much information, it is input like this that will help refine the Loveless Deltics into a faithful reproduction. It is worth stressing again that the samples pictured above have been made to make sure the fundamental basics are right that have been left wanting like: traction motor air intake grill positions, tumblehome, window positions bogie sizes, mechanical drive testing. Positions of details on these first samples are precisely that - first samples! Normally first samples arrive in brass, but it is better to preview the locos wearing a coat of paint which is what has happened here, in the case of the BR Green one the transfer below D9009 is too large and was fitted at short notice to get the models ready for Warley show in a very short time frame, the correct size will be fitted on the finished models. The detail information will be put together for the specification sheets for each model that has sufficient interest to be produced. Thank you all who have given information so far and we have uncovered a couple of differences between the GA drawing and the real thing, which is why we have seen traction motor air intake grilles too low, throwing out the light green positioning on recent attempts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Cliff, Happy to help, especially if it helps get the model closer to perfection. Can't help but notice that the bonnet top horns' position looks too far forward of where it should be. If it's as good as DP1 and the rest of the LHL models, I expect that these will get addressed.... but so far no one seems to have been able to capture the true shape of these machines accurately. So.., good luck. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 A topical shot of Alycidon almost at the end of its days on BR hauling the 13.05 Liverpool-York through Greenfield on 24th December 1981..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Thanks Jon. Lawrie has the book Deltic Demythology and had it last time we met but I did not pay much attention to the front page, only diving in to look at some of the info. Amazing info in there, no doubt our small team will be wearing it thin as we progress through this project. We have surveyed all the preserved examples now, I have done a few myself gaining wonderful pics and the loco's owners are extremely helpful too. Individuals are very forthcoming too, it all helps and is gratefully received. So all being well we will get the Deltic so many of us would like. Thanks for photo Coachmann! If anybody has prototype pictures that give gems of information and that they feel would help please do post them here, or PM me and I will reply with a direct email address. I have forwarded Jon's Flickr link on to Lawrie and the team, thanks to Brian Hanson! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 We have surveyed all the preserved examples now, I have done a few myself gaining wonderful pics and the loco's owners are extremely helpful too. Individuals are very forthcoming too, it all helps and is gratefully received. Cliff, that sounds like the right approach to me.. and yes they are helpful. Good luck J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Research to incorporate different detailing goes on. I have experimented with recreating the rubber gasket window seals: And using a DJH Deltic on my workbench I am able to show that we can apply rubber gasket effects to the windows: We have all agreed that this is a MUST! A simple detailing, but if we can add the rubber seals to all the cab windows it will be another nice little touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The models look ok but I think the prototype looks the best - are the production deltics really suited to brass? There is no way these are worth £2k approx - too many shape errors. I think it's over to Pete Waterman to produce the definitive deltic, Heljan couldn't do it and neither can L H Loveless, not a bad try though. The prototype is worth £1800 ish but I'm sort of pleased these have turned out like this so I won't need to buy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 There is no way these are worth £2k approx - too many shape errors. Could you possibly go into detail there? I don't see how the production deltics can be any less suitable than DP1 in brass if the latter shape can be done. Its the only material really suitable for the quantities being done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think the prototype deltic works really well, maybe because the sides are straight even the nose has straightforward curves the join line with the top of the nose makes a natural break etc. The production deltics have many curves and like one chap said many have tried to capture the shape but don't quite do it. I suppose it's each to their own but having worked with deltics you get to be familiar with the simplest of details and your eye is drawn straight to something which doesn't look right. Forgive me for rivet counting I am not - but for that money I really was expecting something to make me stand back. My main areas are. . 1. Cab windows look wrong the top edge is too deep and the break in the middle is too wide - the look of the windows is made up of a rubber seal a metal surround then onto the main body then notice the overlay line above, the distance on the model might be correct I don't know but the details described aren't there. 2. Engine room windows look too heavy around the frames, rivet detail far too heavy here. I think it makes them look in the wrong proportions. 3. Ditto around the traction motor blower intakes. 4. Exhauster access door on the nose too high up and too shallow. 5. Headcode box looks too far down the nose - the distance from the top of the nose to the top of the top of the box looks to throw the proportions of the nose out - like the Bachmann model. 6. Lifting points on the roof are way over emphasised. They are actually much smaller. I won't go into roundel sizes lack of buffer beam detail, sand boxes as these look to be prototypes models. Please take my criticisms positively they are meant that way - if Mr. Loveless can match the prototype deltic he's onto a winner but more tweaks needed for me to purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thanks for going into that detail. My concern with your earlier post was that it would have fallen foul of forum rules for lacking constructive criticism. With that post people can at least have an idea what your opinion is based on and why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Cliff, Are these of any help ? 55022 Bury 07-07-07 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hi chaps, I'm not going to say who or why or even where, but i do know that 1 interested party has recently laser scanned a production deltic for some reason or other! However when you find out who, it might be an idea to ask to get hold of the laser scanning done, which might help? cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Has Christmas just come early for ECML fans :D Now I like the Farish Deltic and I like the ***** Deltic, but which is better - FIGHT!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 You can see the samples at York Model Railway Show - Lawrie has had confirmation that he has space at the show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 The Loveless DP1 with new sound in action at Telford Guildex broke cover at Telford Guildex http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_quQD4gPL6M&feature=plcp See and hear an original DP1 running a special on Dainton Bank at Telford Guildex 2012 - with thanks to the owners and operators of Dainton Bank for allowing us to run DP1. The authentic sounds used were recorded by Cliff and Bryan on "Royal Scots Grey", by kind co-operation with Martin Walker and East Lancashire Railway. This Saturday (possibly Sunday too) you will be able to hear the Loveless Production Deltic sample and DP1 at Bury Station as part of the East Lancs Railway Deltic Gathering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 This Saturday (possibly Sunday too) you will be able to hear the Loveless Production Deltic sample and DP1 at Bury Station as part of the East Lancs Railway Deltic Gathering. Might be interesting to compare with a real one alongside... although I don't think you'd be hear anything once KOYLI starts up (seemingly the loudest of the lot) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nice models. I'll stick with my Lima deltics, at least they sound realistic, no DCC needed !!!!!!!!!!!! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nige Paine was telling me about KOYLI being really noisy and not having been load bank tested for a very long time, so it will be interesting to hear how loud it is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hi Cliff, Nice to meet you yesterday at the Deltic Gathering on the ELR. Impressive, very impressive. Pete Waterman move over. Your Just Like The Real Thing title should be given to the guys at Loveless and their Deltic. The sound justifies the same title as well and had many a person running around the platforms looking for the sixth Deltic. Yes, including me. Interesting chat about decoders, speakers, instalation & sound projects Cliff. Was a good way to spend an hour and I think I may well have convinced my other half its what I want for Christmas. Will be in touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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