Heljan Class 16

[keefer]

don't know if it helps or not, but the Ian Allan 'british railways headcodes' from 1961 has a section specifically for 'cross-london headlamp/disc' codes

 

top + left buffer = willesden to shepherd's bush

                            brent and herne hill via barnes

 

top + left + right buffers = all trains to chelsea dock

                                         freight trains between st. pancras and poplar via south tottenham

                                         brent and hither green via barnes, factory jct. and nunhead

 

the full list shows that a headcode could mean different services (due to the volume of cross-london services/destinations), i.e some headcodes were 'repeated for several goods yards at some distance from each other'.

Edited September 20, 2013 by keefer

[SRman]

I found another in Fleet Survey #4 - a class 24 D5065 in 1962 from the GNR passing through Crystal Palace LL with a top disc, one over the left buffer and one in the centre. Haresnape describes this as Norwood Junction via the widened lines, Snow Hill curve and Tulse Hill, whereas the top + left buffer on a class 15 was described as Norwood Junction via the West London Line.

I am using left and right to refer to as we look at the face of the locomotive, in the cases I am describing.

 

EDIT: fixed up a typo in the book title. Full title and details here. British Rail Fleet Survey: 4 Production Diesel-Electrics Types 1-3, Brian Haresnape 1983, Ian Allan Publishing. Number 1 in this series also has the prototype batch of class 15s and the class 16s, which never had any more produced after the initial 10.

Edited September 21, 2013 by SRman

[keefer]

i wonder if the cross-london codes changed sometime in 1961, as none of your examples match what's in the book.

those ones seem more general in description whereas the ones you've found seem a bit more specific route-wise

 

there certainly aren't any specific ER codes mentioned for services onto the SR

[SRman]

I'm sure the codes have changed periodically.

 

Most of the photos I have found with any detail of the headcodes and routes involved have been dated as 1962. As with everything where human beings are involved, there is room for error, even from the most reliable of sources. As information is hard to find, especially from here in Australia, I can only take the word of the author/owner of any published photos. 

[keefer]

apologies SRman, i hope i haven't come across as trying to debunk your thinking!

 

like you say, there often isn't enough definite info out there, so often we have to work with what's available.

 

i think i would go with your photo captions as being ok - i had forgotten i had the headcodes book (found it while looking for something else and didn't even realise the were separate cross-london codes) and thought there might have been something useful there. the fact that the descriptions don't match suggests that the codes did change around 1962 especially as you have a few different examples to go by. 

 

cracking layout btw - LU, SR and ER diesels together, certainly an excuse for variety!

[SRman]

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you either, Keefer. I am agreeing with you, at least in part. I think. There is a bit of conflict in the scant information available.

I also looked at the SEMG headcode pages which seem, from what I can see, to go only from SR days with the latest one that I can find being from 1944 onwards.

I am still wondering how many class 16s found their way to Hither Green. I'm sure the odd 15 got there but the NBL locos were noted for being unreliable (as has been said a few times earlier in this topic). Just because one had the Hither Green headcode doesn't mean it actually got there!!

 

Quite a few of the photos that I did find were either at Crystal Palace LL or at Clapham Junction: both ideal locations for a bit of inter-regional train spotting. 

There were other locos such as class 25s and Westerns on these freights too but they had four-character headcodes (such as 1O71) ... still my excuse for owning models of such beasts on my predominantly BR(S)/SR layout!! I must get myself a Warship too, especially as they belong on the south western main lines in the later 1960s.

 

Sorry all, rambling here and taking us a little off topic!

 

Thanks for the compliments too, Keefer.

Edited September 21, 2013 by SRman

[SRman]

To get us back on track (a pun??) here are a couple of quick videos of the Heljan class 16 taken on my phone camera. The first is just of the 16 on a representation of a transfer freight, the second includes the same train with a Dapol track cleaning car in vacuum cleaner mode, after I had painted some more of the third and fourth rail installations and disturbed a little of the ballast. It is followed by an LT CO/CP stock train.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by SRman

[Izzy]

Having just had some fun (!) converting a Heljan W&M railbus - acquired secondhand recently -  to both DCC and P4 for a little shunting plank I have built I wondered if anyone had been able to convert a class 16 to P4. Although there is a PDF on the alan gibson workshop website for re-wheeling one to EM from the photos it seems that there isn't really the clearance/width between the bogie frames for P4 wheelsets.

 

Has anyone tried it or know the internal bogie measurements please?

 

Thanks,

 

Izzy

[SRman]

I can't check the 16 right now (I'm at work, it's at home!), but most, if not all, Heljan bogie diesels have separately fitted sideframes that simply pull off their spigots. That means you could easily gain a millimetre or two by adding spacers. That may affect the bogie swing but if you are going P4, I would assume the curves won't be all that severe.

[Izzy]

I can't check the 16 right now (I'm at work, it's at home!), but most, if not all, Heljan bogie diesels have separately fitted sideframes that simply pull off their spigots. That means you could easily gain a millimetre or two by adding spacers. That may affect the bogie swing but if you are going P4, I would assume the curves won't be all that severe.

 

Ah, thanks, that's very useful. After posting the message I did find a thread by Captain Kernow - blog I think - detailing altering a Heljan DPU128 to P4 and using spacer washers was mentioned as an easier option, but not having handled any Heljan diesels I wasn't sure of the basic construction and how this applied.

 

It's only for a 5' long shunting plank with A5 points being the smallest used (about 36" I think), and I thought one might be 'different' to a 15 and feasible perhaps on an Essex area minor branch with a bit of a stretch.

 

Izzy

[SRman]

OK. I have now been able to examine my class 16, and the bogie frames are a little different to the usual Heljan ones. They still 'unplug' easily but the sideframes are integral with the base and end transoms. It appears to me that they would still be relatively easy to modify for width, but it would take a little more work than simply using spacers as for most other Heljan diesels.

[Izzy]

Thanks once again for taking the time and trouble to have a look. Much appreciated. Following this info I took a look on Howes site, should have probably done this in the first place if I had half a brain, and discovered quite a range of spare parts for these at present, many of the separate moulding sprues as for other Heljan models, and there are two for the bogies. These help to show how they assemble and could be useful as spares if I decide to take the plunge and get a 16 since I would guess they are glued together rather than just plug assembly, which would actually be ideal for my needs.

 

Seems quite feasible if I can source some suitable 8-spoke 3'7" P4 wheels somewhere as the Heljan wheel profile is on the coarse side (well those in the W&M railbus anyway)and not really suitable for conversion/re-profiling for either EM or P4. The Gibson PDF EM conversion uses 10 spoke and I'm not sure how different this would look, or if it would actually be noticable.

 

Very tempting though.......

 

Izzy

[stovepipe]

I recently acquired one of these models, which I'm really happy with. However there were no owners instructions included. Would anyone know where I could get a copy, or perhaps someone would be kind enough to send me a pdf copy? Thanks.

[Fat Controller]

I recently acquired one of these models, which I'm really happy with. However there were no owners instructions included. Would anyone know where I could get a copy, or perhaps someone would be kind enough to send me a pdf copy? Thanks.

Howes of Oxford are the importers, and carry some spares. Drop them an E-mail at :- railways@howesmodels.co.uk

[Swindon 123]

I recently acquired one of these models, which I'm really happy with. However there were no owners instructions included. Would anyone know where I could get a copy, or perhaps someone would be kind enough to send me a pdf copy? Thanks.

Stovepipe. I have a set scanned if you would like to drop me a PM you can have a copy.

 

Paul J.

[stovepipe]

PM sent.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I finally got irritated by the 'cab interior' surfficiently to take action, and unclipped it (flex the cab ends apart slightly). Have had a hack at it so just the two 'driving desks' are left on view clipped in each side of the cab, but that would leave the bogie gear tower and sundry wiring on view, now there is no moulding extending across the cab interior. Folded up a small piece of black paper which can sit right down on the geartower top, with little upward flaps at the end  to conceal the wiring. That's adequate for operational purposes seen from three feet, no great lump of 'floor' at bottom of window level announcing itself, just a discreetly dark interior.

 

Should I represent the cab walls? We'll see if this lack supplies enough motivational force to do something about it after another three years....

[John Tomlinson]

Having picked up a Hatton's sale item this week, I took it apart today to see how it worked. (It did work before and thankfully still does!).

 

Worth pointing out that contrary to the instructions, there's absolutely no need to remove the cab from the body to get inside to inspect the mechanism. Apologies if this has already been noted in the previous 20 pages.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

Further to my last post, after running for a while I felt the loco to be a tad sluggish, and not quite as smooth at slow speed as many of my Heljan  paragons. It also seemed to be getting a bit hot, and being a #1603 D8407 GFYP, I was wary from previous posts that it might fail.

 

So yesterday I stripped the gear towers down for a closer look. The model will have been in store at Hattons for a while, being one of the first batch, and having taken all the cogs and worm assemblies out I wiped away the old white grease. Experience with a "Ribble Cement" Clayton some years ago suggested the grease could well be part of the problem, and so it seems to have proved on the basis of running this morning after re-assembly, the loco now seems a good bit more free running and definitely is more responsive to the controller. I couldn't find any obvious flaws in the gear cogs, or flash particularly on the insides of the casings, but some of the cogs did have small moulding pips on the sides that may have slightly snagged on rotation. I've trimmed these off anyway. The gear train has been lightly lubricated with silicon grease bought from Hobby Holidays, and does seem smoother at slow speeds now. It also seems not to have warmed up after several minutes continual running.

 

On balance I conclude that the old white grease was the main problem, and anyone finding sluggish or hot running on an older model may wish to take note.

 

John.

Edited September 10, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[NIK]

Hi,

 

I bought a Heljan Class 16 this week as a possible donor chassis for narrow bodied DEMUs - the Hastings and Tadpole units.

 

I ran it in on my Gaugemaster rolling road and it was getting warm. I used my infrared thermometer and a spot above the cab gear tower got up to 39 degrees C.

 

I tried the loco on my test track (third radius curves) on DC and at 12 volts it was doing 62 scale mph - so spot on for a class 16.

 

However it was hesitant to start and would then surge forward as though it was overcoming friction.

 

Also it would only do 43 scale mph with five Bachmann Mk1 coaches.

 

I took the cover off the bottom of the cab end gear tower expecting to find thick grease and instead found no grease on the gears.

 

As a temporary experiment I put some electrolube on all the gears of the loco and the gear tower top bearing.

 

The Class 16 would then haul two Mk1s at 69 scale mph and 5 mk1s at 57 mph (on the flat).

 

However I disturbed the pickups and the class 16s running was very patchy after that so it was difficult to tell whether any improvements were due to pickups cleaning up or the friction getting less as the mechanism warmed up.

 

 

For my immediate application the results are a mixed bag. I want to use the Tadpoles and Hastings units on a mainline exhibition layout where the units have to be able to do a reasonable speed straight out of the fiddle yard - no laps to warm up/clean up.

The 3 pole motor is possibly a bit retrograde.

The lower top speeds under modest loads worries me as I would like the units to be able to tackle the 1 in 40 gradient on one spur of a club layout without slowing down too much.

I'm slightly worried about the pickups - I may have to make up a pickup coach that feeds locos under test to see what the mechanism can do with good pickups.

 

 

Other data: loco pull test 61 grammes @12V DC. 360 grammes weight of loco. Current (after running in) during slip tests: Forward 0.44Amps, Reverse 0.42Amps @ 12V DC.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

The pick-ups are a bit fickle, and difficult to adjust properly other than by removing the bogie sideframes. These are mated to cross pieces, and can be glued, so the mateing plugs to the sideframes then break off. Moreover, when you put the sideframes back, the design makes it very easy to bend the pick-up strips, something therefore of a Catch-22!

 

One thing I forgot to mention was that I put a drop of fine oil on each end of the motor, to lubricate the bearings. At the commutator end this obviously has to be done very sparingly indeed. Whether this helped the motor free up I can't tell, but it won't have done any harm.

 

John.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi,

 

I bought a Heljan Class 16 this week as a possible donor chassis for narrow bodied DEMUs - the Hastings and Tadpole units.

 

I ran it in on my Gaugemaster rolling road and it was getting warm. I used my infrared thermometer and a spot above the cab gear tower got up to 39 degrees C.

 

I tried the loco on my test track (third radius curves) on DC and at 12 volts it was doing 62 scale mph - so spot on for a class 16.

 

However it was hesitant to start and would then surge forward as though it was overcoming friction.

 

Also it would only do 43 scale mph with five Bachmann Mk1 coaches.

 

I took the cover off the bottom of the cab end gear tower expecting to find thick grease and instead found no grease on the gears.

 

As a temporary experiment I put some electrolube on all the gears of the loco and the gear tower top bearing.

 

The Class 16 would then haul two Mk1s at 69 scale mph and 5 mk1s at 57 mph (on the flat).

 

However I disturbed the pickups and the class 16s running was very patchy after that so it was difficult to tell whether any improvements were due to pickups cleaning up or the friction getting less as the mechanism warmed up.

 

 

For my immediate application the results are a mixed bag. I want to use the Tadpoles and Hastings units on a mainline exhibition layout where the units have to be able to do a reasonable speed straight out of the fiddle yard - no laps to warm up/clean up.

The 3 pole motor is possibly a bit retrograde.

The lower top speeds under modest loads worries me as I would like the units to be able to tackle the 1 in 40 gradient on one spur of a club layout without slowing down too much.

I'm slightly worried about the pickups - I may have to make up a pickup coach that feeds locos under test to see what the mechanism can do with good pickups.

 

 

Other data: loco pull test 61 grammes @12V DC. 360 grammes weight of loco. Current (after running in) during slip tests: Forward 0.44Amps, Reverse 0.42Amps @ 12V DC.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Hi Nick

 

I read your post so I went and checked my two Heljan NBL type 1s.

 

D8401 ran at just over a scale 60 mph with six coaches on the back.

D8404 ran at just under 70 mph with the same six.

 

Neither had problems starting the train and both ran at an acceptable slow speed with the train. I have no intentional gradients on my layout. 

 

I ran both without a load, and the maximum speed without the coaches was just above that with. I think they are geared to go at a scale 65-70 mph.

 

I ran the same train with my 35 year old scratchbuilt class 15, 95 mph. It is powered by a Hornby ringfield motor. I shunted the coaches back into their siding with D8216 at a lovely smooth walking pace.

 

Six coaches is the maximum for my layout platforms so i do not need to test with any more.

[NIK]

The pick-ups are a bit fickle, and difficult to adjust properly other than by removing the bogie sideframes. These are mated to cross pieces, and can be glued, so the mateing plugs to the sideframes then break off. Moreover, when you put the sideframes back, the design makes it very easy to bend the pick-up strips, something therefore of a Catch-22!

 

One thing I forgot to mention was that I put a drop of fine oil on each end of the motor, to lubricate the bearings. At the commutator end this obviously has to be done very sparingly indeed. Whether this helped the motor free up I can't tell, but it won't have done any harm.

 

John.

 

Hi,

 

I was probably blaming the pickups a bit too much. I think I overdid the use of Railzip on the top of the test track rails. After many circuits and lots of track cleaning the Class 16 got up to a maximum of 72 scale mph with 5 Mk1 coaches.

 

I didn't lubricate the motor bearings as I couldn't see the bearings very well and didn't bother to take the chassis to a better lit place.

 

I'm going to try and add some more coaches and measure the speeds achieved.

Then I'm going to try and use my experimental gradient and curve predictor to try and predict what speed the chassis will haul 5 mk1 coaches up my club layout's 1 in 40 gradient with 36" curve.

 

Hi Clive,

 

I hope my loco is a bit of an outlier. Its from Hattons bargains. I don't know how long ago it was manufactured - could it be 5 years in storage?.

I have one other loco that is similar - a DJ Models Class 71. It has a high current consumption than I would expect from a coreless motor and runs slowly especially with a few coaches behind it.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[NIK]

Hi,

 

I've just loaded up my Class 16 with 9 Mk1s (the extra 4 are actually a 4-TC so at least one coach may have pin point electrical pickups).

 

The maximum speed round my test track was 61mph.

 

Putting the number of coaches into my experimental gradient and curve predictor it predicts 54 grammes of drag due to the coach friction, gradient and curves.

 

That's less than the 59.7 grammes of pull calculated for a 1 in 40 gradient so the chassis might not slip on the club layout gradient and curve.

 

Changing from the test track radius of 20" to the 36" of the club layouts gradient and putting the number of Mk1 coaches to five gives a drag of 55 grammes.

So the class 16 chassis might be able to haul the 5 Mk1 coaches up the 1:40 gradient with 36" curve at up to 61 scale mph.

 

The slowest the chassis went round the test track with 9 on was 40 scale mph which may be on a par with the performance of the real 6 car Hastings Unit on a 1 in 40 gradient.

 

So the Class 16 might be a candidate donor chassis for a Hastings unit (probably will have only one powered bogie so will have to try DCC Concepts Powerbase to achieve the same level of grip).

 

Next thing may be to add Powerbase magnets to the chassis and see what it can pull and then try and disconnect the worm and cardan shaft from one gear tower and repeat the pull tests.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

NIK, thinking about your project to power the Hastings unit, it did occur to me that you could pick up a 2 Hal from Hattons for £62, and use the power bogie from that. As a Southern modeller, an unpowered 2 Hal would presumably come in somewhere!

 

Just a thought,

 

John.