Heljan Class 16

[spackz]

It looks like Dapol are gearing up for the class 29. Hopefully the class 21 will follow.

Its my understanding that they will now be starting with the class 21, this being due to not having any previous plans/drawings, which they are now in possession of. The drawings notdapoldave recieved from a fellow rmweber were that of the original build class 21's, Dave did say they would work with the Class 21 first as they now have more information and would not have to reverse engineer anything. They would certainly be on my shopping list as Class 16's and 21's would have worked along side each other at Ripple Lane, Stratford etc

Edited August 26, 2013 by spackz

[tom s]

Cheers for the pics of the model, i have 3 scratchbuild 16's in n gauge and i'd done the roof completely wrong! Didn't even know they'd been painted grey! Even in the colour snaps on the railphotoprints website didn't look like the roof was grey. There was an image of what looked like D8400 in the book 'Diesel Pioneers' with what looked like a full grey roof like the class 20's. Stratford did like to paint their loco's roofs silver when they were later allocated class 47's so i had hoped the 16 was sporting a silver roof

[Baby Deltic]

Cheers for the pics of the model, i have 3 scratchbuild 16's in n gauge and i'd done the roof completely wrong! Didn't even know they'd been painted grey! Even in the colour snaps on the railphotoprints website didn't look like the roof was grey. There was an image of what looked like D8400 in the book 'Diesel Pioneers' with what looked like a full grey roof like the class 20's. Stratford did like to paint their loco's roofs silver when they were later allocated class 47's so i had hoped the 16 was sporting a silver roof

When D8400 was originally released from NBL's works and running around Scotland on trial, it did have a grey roof down to the cant-rail class 20 style. The livery was revised, as per the model before it was released to traffic. There's also a bone of contention about class 15's because myself, and a few others believe the cab roofs were grey on at least some, if not all. According to the Fleet Survey series, this was the case.

[Baby Deltic]

Its my understanding that they will now be starting with the class 21, this being due to not having any previous plans/drawings, which they are now in possession of. The drawings notdapoldave recieved from a fellow rmweber were that of the original build class 21's, which Dave said they would work with first as they had more information and would have to reverse engineer anything. They would certainly be on my shopping list as Class 16's and 21's would have worked along side each other at Ripple Lane, Stratford etc

Defo a couple of GNYP class 21's on my list too. Maybe a GN or Ipswich one aswell. As far as class 29's go, I would go after D6123 and fit twin arm wipers which it had after conversion at Paxman Colchester. I did hear that it was at Stratford for a short while for testing before going back to the ScR.

[tom s]

When D8400 was originally released from NBL's works and running around Scotland on trial, it did have a grey roof down to the cant-rail class 20 style. The livery was revised, as per the model before it was released to traffic. There's also a bone of contention about class 15's because myself, and a few others believe the cab roofs were grey on at least some, if not all. According to the Fleet Survey series, this was the case.

Ah i see, very interesting. I've been trawling through images of stratford TMD for a small project of mine (a model of the B shed and the 3 adjacent storage roads in 1967 for my static models of 3 class 16s, 15 and D2999 to sit and look pretty on, amongst other running rtr models) and there are plenty of colour shots of the class 15s, many look like they have grey roofs, especially on the cab roof, but it's hard to tell with the sunlight. Heljan succumbed to the misconception of there being blue 15s, when there weren't (there are some images of ABD968000 that look like it has recieved BR blue but it's just bad lighting, and how plenty recieved the BR arrows in green), so i wouldn't trust them on class 15 liveries

Edited August 25, 2013 by tom s

[Clive Mortimore]

Ran my two tonight. They ran OK, my track on Brisbane Road still needs a good clean up after painting and ballasting. The biggest problem I have is they are fitted with lights that the girls in 93 Searchlight Regiment RA would have liked. http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/93slHist.php Lighting to be removed, Brisbane Road is modelled on a sunny summers day therefore the locos would not have their lights on....there were switches in the cabs to turn them off. The 20 mwatt bulbs used in the 1960s never did shine very bright even on the darkest nights. 

 

As for the variety of D84XX roof colours have a look at the photos of them in this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39920-diesel-classes-that-didnt-transition/ I was unaware of these until I had a good look at the photos.

 

BTH type1s did have a grey cab roof, the man from Heljan at the Warley show would not believe me. I am not sure about the engine roof hatches, I have always painted mine green as I have never seen a colour photo showing the top of a D82XX.

 

Tom I would be very interested in seeing your N gauge models.....not many of us diesel scratchbuilders around.

[BrushVeteran]

 Heljan succumbed to the misconception of there being blue 15s, when there weren't (there are some images of ABD968000 that look like it has recieved BR blue but it's just bad lighting, and how plenty recieved the BR arrows in green), so i wouldn't trust them on class 15 liveries

Being heavily involved in the reseach on Heljan's models I would like to point out that there was never any 'misconception' by Heljan to produce a blue Class 15 and therefore they did not 'succumb' to that point. The 'preserved' Class 15 D8233 did receive a couple of non-authentic liveries in its early preservation days, probably to help keep the rust at bay, but during their days of BR operation they were always green, albeit with the eventual applications of yellow warning panels of different shapes and sizes and the double arrow logos.

 

I would also like to think that Heljan can be trusted to produce accurate and authentic liveries, unless commissioned by other parties for direct sale, and that all the effort the Heljan UK team put in is always backed up by photographic evidence.

 

As many on this forum know liveries are a minefield, especially in the early diesel days and green/blue changeover. In London, especially Finsbury Park and Stratford, the repainting of loco roofs pale grey was carried out frequently as a means of smartening up the general appearance and was usually carried out by the artisan cleaners at that time..................................as one of my pairs of shoes did testify to!

[31A]

Lovely model, so glad I bought one although (unlike the 15s) I never saw one in real life.  Must take the prize for my 'best diesel model' so far!

 

Very glad to see the buffer beam details already fitted as I've sometimes found these to be a nightmare in the past, but I will need to fit the auto couplers some time soon for the loco to be of any use, and wondered whether anyone has tried this yet - are the buffer beam details push fits, or are they glued in?  On other diesels, I've usually ended up having to crop the vac and steam pipes to clear the auto coupler, and replace the screw coupling with a plain drawhook.

 

Unlike Stewart, I found the headcode discs were quite a loose fit on mine, and I applied a tiny dab of Evostick to the pins to keep them in place, but should be able to get them off again if I ever want to change the headcode.  Perhaps it depends just how much paint landed on the individual model....?

 

'Original' Baby Deltic to look forward to now!

[Sam Moss]

I've bought two. Whilst the fitted buffer beam detail is nice, I've had to take it off to be of any use. In some ways I'd wish they would leave this off for the purchaser to fit. One of mine had the detail push fitted and the other seamed to be glued. On one the head code discs push fitted with a positive fit and on the other they were loose.

 

Painting the inside of the cab desk black and just leaving the little driving console in the corner cream doe a world of difference.

 

One runs fine straight out of the box and the other seams to be lacking electrical pickup somewhere. Most likely either dirt, their white lubricant or badly adjusted pickups. Need to investigate this one on our next club night.

[31A]

Thanks Sam; on mine I think the buffer beam details must have been glued in as reasonable brute force failed to shift them.  So I (rather sadly) chopped off the vacuum and steam pipes above coupler level, and removed the screw couplings from the drawhooks - by clipping through the pin that passes through the drawhook I managed to avoid damaging them, and put them aside for possible future use (e.g. front of a Pacific!).  Unlike the 15, this one has an NEM pocket and the supplied auto couplers end up nicely inboard when fitted, avoiding an excessive gap between loco and train.

 

 

Painting the inside of the cab desk black and just leaving the little driving console in the corner cream doe a world of difference.

 

 

 

Quite agree; I did that with my 15 and it does look a lot better.  Also glued a couple of (amputated!) enginemen to the interior moulding, which helped to disguise it further.  Will do same with this one when I get around to it.

[10800]

My D8400 ran very smoothly on the DRAG test track straight out of the box tonight, very impressive I thought.  I took a P4'd Class 15 along for comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SRman]

If you are removing the class 15's cab to paint the interior, lop a millimetre or so off the bottom edges of the cab so that it sits with the roof flush with the short hood top. I filed around the locating spigots when I did mine.

The class 16 looks good - I have not yet received mine but it cannot be too far away now.

[10800]

If you are removing the class 15's cab to paint the interior, lop a millimetre or so off the bottom edges of the cab so that it sits with the roof flush with the short hood top. I filed around the locating spigots when I did mine.

 

 

 

Yes, I've reduced the cab height on the 15 a bit by that method, but there's still more to remove!

[SRman]

A little at a time is the way to go!

[Swindon 123]

Picked up D8404 version of the model today. After a quick test run to check all OK started to convert to EM using the original wheelsets. The Heljan ones as supplied are quite nice but not quite fine enough for my purposes, although I suspect that they will run if just opened up.

Onto the lathe with the wheels and after a couple of measurement checks they where turned down to the standards I use. Flange thickness 0.45-0.5mm (0.72mm originally) and 0.55mm depth, (0.70-0.75 original)

After opening out to EM they fitted back inside the bogie frames and also the brake blocks with ease, so no need to modify them. The photo below shows the initial result. The turned wheelset at the top with an original at the bottom.

 

 

The bogie frames are attached to the bogie tower in the usual Heljan way by a central plug in piece. The crossbeams at either end are plugged into the bogie side frame so to get the side frame off, one of these has to be detached from one of the side frames so they can be "opened out" to clear the plug from the drive tower frame. The pickups are held in place by the bogie side frames plugging in to the drive tower so will come away when the side frames are taken off. This leaves them clear of the clips holding down the base of the bogie which can be gently levered up to remove said base and then remove the wheelset. I hope the photos below go someway to explaining some of this.

 

 

 

Note two of the four body retaining screws behind the buffer beam. there are two more the other end. The two screws in the underslung fuel tank just retain the fuel tank.

 

Hope the above is some help to anyone contemplating EM'ing their model.

 

Paul J.

[Mallard60022]

Paul, may I ask if you have EMd other Heljans using the original wheelsets? Looks really good here by the way. 

I can verify that this is a good looking model.

P

[Mallard60022]

A full review by Tony Wright will appear in BRM

A few pics from TW to whet the appetite:

 

 

 

I was able to handle this little beauty yesterday; very, good indeed.

(All pics supplied by TW)

P

Edited August 28, 2013 by Mallard60022

[Enterprisingwestern]

Paul, may I ask if you have EMd other Heljans using the original wheelsets? Looks really good here by the way. 

I can verify that this is a good looking model.

P

 

Not Paul, sorry, but me.

Depends which Heljan loco's, the early ones with coppery coloured wheels can be EM'd but the wheels are ropey and collect dirt faster than a council dustcart, the newer (nickel silver?) wheels are a lot better and can be widened quite easily. An extra tickle as Paul has done is to give them a quick skim but is not absolutely necessary in my experience.

 

Mike.

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Mike. Apologies for that. Thought that might be the case; can save those expensive and have to wait six months plus replacement sets I suppose. However my acquired set of 4 47s have the earleir wheels - pah!

P

[Swindon 123]

Paul, may I ask if you have EMd other Heljans using the original wheelsets? Looks really good here by the way. 

I can verify that this is a good looking model.

P

I originally replaced the Heljan wheels on the Class 26/7, 33 & 47s with 14mm Romfords as they where an easy match, but with the coming of the odd size wheel sizes on the likes of the Class 14, 15, 17 and now spoked wheels on the 16, I started to turn the Heljan wheels down. I will most probably revisit the Class 26/7, 33 & 47s in due course and refit the original (turned down) wheels and re-use the 14mm Romfords in other projects.

All of what Enterprisingwestern said above I would agree with, although I do think that trying to reduce the flange depth gives better running on some of the proprietary EM track. This can be achieved, if you do not have access to a lathe, by running the loco on emery paper for a while to wear the flanges down although at the expense of the profile. I notice that you can now buy replacement wheelsets from Howes to replace the original wheels for a reasonable price thus overcoming the dirt collecting properties of the earlier wheels.

I have successfully turned the wheels down on locos of all the manufacturers including steam outline, some of which can be found in

Swindon 123's NEW workbench. (A couple of Teddy Bears) in the Kit and Scratchbuilding forum.

 

 

 

Paul J.

[SRman]

Yes, I replaced most of the earlier wheels with the newer style ones from Howes. The only exception has been my Western, which, for some reason, doesn't seem to suffer from the dreaded tarnishing, even though it has the earlier brass wheels.

[BrushVeteran]

Thanks Mike. Apologies for that. Thought that might be the case; can save those expensive and have to wait six months plus replacement sets I suppose. However my acquired set of 4 47s have the earleir wheels - pah!

P

 I believe replacement wheelsets are in stock at Howes under part no. 19854700 for the earlier issues. They do make a hell of a difference to the running quality and as mentioned are easily adjustable. Whilst replacing all of mine I ensured that the pick-ups were adjusted to maintain constant contact with the wheelset.

[Baby Deltic]

Mine arrived this morning and the box was ripped open to reveal the goodies. A took a few quick snaps, just for illustration purposes, but I didn't bother faffing around setting the camera first:

 

 

All six beasties lined up.

 

 

D8400

 

 

D8401

 

 

D8404

 

 

D8405 (weathered)

 

 

D8407

 

 

D8409 (gloss finish)

 

 

 

 

 

[Baby Deltic]

All I can say is, what fantastic models they are. Grahame, Brian, the Howes team and Heljan have excelled in producing such a highly detailed well researched model. Only four more to go to get the class.

[Mallard60022]

Bloomin' 'eck baby D, you modelling Stratford or summit?

I think you will find the BRM review both informative and amusing.

P

Edited August 28, 2013 by Mallard60022