The Nth Degree Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm planning (famous last words!) a 19thC layout in 2mm scale. I've already mapped out the trackwork and I'm happy that I can produce the scenics and buildings - there are plenty of reference pics available and nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. However, wagons, coaches and engines are a blinding nuisance to find, even in kit form. I'll need 3 Fox Walker 0-6-0 PT engines, 2 sets of 4-wheel coaches, made by the Gloucester Wagon Works, and quite a few open and closed wagons, plus a brake van, made by the British Wagon Company. I can't find any of them available to buy. Do I compromise and get 3 similar engines? Or do I pay for someone to scratch-build them? That sounds very expensive. The wagons are probably easier to work around as they are much like any other, but the coaches are slightly distinctive in their window, door and end designs. My question, mostly to myself, is if I'm going to all that trouble recreating an accurate scene at a certain period of time, will having inaccurate stock be unacceptable? A wider question, what have you compromised on and has it troubled you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I think your problem is going into it in 2mm scale. There's a few kits out there of 19th century locomotives in 4mm scale. At the minute I find myself compromising and looking at my own skill set versus what I'd like on my proposed layout. I have to buy in kit locomotives as it's a light railway setting. My tastes have moved from some kits to others to match my own ability to make locomotives (currently nil). It leads to me having to compromise and go for a bigger mix, or different locomotives just because it's easier for me. Does this actually trouble me? No. Not really. Just makes it all part of the fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 how different do the locos need to be? could you get three similar engines and do a bit of modifying to make them less like each other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2011 The closest your likely to get to the coaches is either to modify the old farish ones or use some from Wolsey Works. Locos are going to be your problem. I would suggest that finding a rtr chassis then building the body around this is likely to be the easiest way forward for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 ... Do I compromise and get 3 similar engines? ... Let's just deal with this aspect. My first question would be whether there was a suitable RTR model or kit with enough commonality to represent the desired item, if modified in some way. On the chassis, provided I can get the wheelbase dimensions right within about 5%, lengths, diameters, spoke counts, cylinder position; that's a compromise that is usually acceptable. Worse than that, and it will have to be a scratchbuilt chassis. The same sort of 'dimensional flexibility' applies to the major dimensions topsides to match the chassis layout. If the characteristic fittings are accurate (chimney, dome, whistle safety valves, cab shape, steps, smokebox door treatment) that tends to 'sell' the ensemble as a recognisable model of the intended subject, and it needs someone who really knows their stuff to spot the inaccuracies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Heruss, I've found a great 4mm kit of the exact loco I need, made by Mercian Models. I've asked if they can produce a 2mm version but no reply yet. Black Sheep, they are all based on the same (pretty much) loco, with slight changes according to progressive design changes - they were not all purchased at the same time. Only third is different to any significance, having slightly smaller wheels, larger panier and an open cab. Kris, Wolsey make some beautiful 4-wheelers, as does David Eveley (Sp?) a 2FS supplier. 3 plank wagons and vans probably won't be too much of a problem, as long as I can get the correct era (no vacuum brakes, etc). B&D, I've seen a couple 0-6-0 chassis kits but I'm not sure of the scale dimensions and they come with minimal parts. Plus, scratch-building is definitely not my forte. I'm not sure of the price to get someone to make them for me but it's likely to be very expensive. I did think about it though, using some Minitrix loco chassis (they're very well engineered) and some brass plate to form the body. This is still an outside option, and would avoid the horrible task of making a woking chassis. So, in summary, it's not too bad to have items that are not precisely what you want, but are close enough to be suggestive? What takes priority - the layout or the trains? Thanks for replying all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 What takes priority - the layout or the trains? That is really a personal choice question that only you can answer and depends to some extent on how much you are prepared to accept as incomplete. If it were me I would get the track planned and laid out - but to test it you really require a loco and at least one of each type of stock to check clearances. So I would get sufficient stock in hand to do that then get going on laying track. Adding more stock for operating interest can be done at leisure (perhaps getting more detailed and fine scale as your skills increase) that if you don't get bored with the idea and seek a change - something I almost inevitably fall foul of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 ...What takes priority - the layout or the trains?... It is quite possible to build a diorama of the scene with the track running through it but nothing moving on those rails. Would that interest you? If you would not be interested in building a static diorama alone, that answers the question; the trains are your priority. For my money, the first priority is trains that run extremely reliably. In N gauge this applies with double force, it is not as easy to get good running results in N as compared to OO and up. The attractions of a known reliable runner of a chassis which would be an approximate representation, over the unknown quantity of a 'right' chassis built from a kit? Really that calls for the experiment; build it or get it built, and evaluate. (I would need to know or it would be a permanent irritant.) If the RTR chassis proved significantly superior in running, then its inaccuracies would be ignored for the sake of operational quality: but as ever YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 What takes priority - the layout or the trains? Always a good question and one that ultimately depends on the modeller. For me, the important thing is a balanced overall impression with different aspects done to a matching standard (within the limits of my modelling abilities). A beautiful hand-crafted loco running past crude scenery would not satisfy me. Nor would I wish to spend a long time finely detailing a layout that would be inhabited by Thomas the tank engine. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a long term plan. Perhaps build you layout in the way you want and then initially run it with whatever stock you have available. Once you have somewhere to run your trains, you can focus on building/commissioning some more historically accurate stock. One thing you might want to look into is the possibility of 3D printing. I have seen some nice work done in N gauge including 1995 tube stock and some china clay vehicles. If you are more skilled with a PC than plasticard you could consider knocking up a bodyshell to fit an RTR chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2011 What takes priority - the layout or the trains? Personally it's the layout for me. If you get the setting right then you can work on the locos / rolling stock in the future, where as if you have the most fantastic trains and nowhere to run them or a layout that is poor then the trains will become lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2011 You have the answer in the topic heading compromise. However where and what is the concern. If you want to create a railway setting then 2mm is a good choice. However scratch building in 2mm is not for the fainthearted, but is practical if you are prepared to take the time and care. I suggest you build the layout using some converted stock for now by the time you have done that your skills should be improving and you can then start on building the correct stock. Have a go there are plenty willing to offer advice. The 2mmSA are a friendly bunch. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 29, 2011 A wider question, what have you compromised on and has it troubled you? Two questions - two answers. 00 and not much. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Do I compromise and get 3 similar engines? Or do I pay for someone to scratch-build them? That sounds very expensive. The wagons are probably easier to work around as they are much like any other, but the coaches are slightly distinctive in their window, door and end designs. When I started my layout there was things required that I knew I couldnt do at the time and as such I knew I would have to learn how to do them along the way. Never base your layout plans on what you know right now, go for what you really want and accept that you will have to devote time to learn to do the bits you know you cant do. Thats just the stuff you know that you cant do, then theres the stuff you dont even know you will need to learn along the way! HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Lots of thought provoking comments here, thanks very much for your replies. I have come to one decision - a compromise on the layout. It seems I will have to condense the overall area from 3m wide to 2m or less due to available space. I'm now of the opinion that if I make one compromise I may as well make more. Ever so slightly eased my worry. Have a great new year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 Model Railways is all about compromise - it's at what level of compromise that YOU feel happy. After all, (no doubt annoying a few regulars) it is YOUR train set after all.............................................. Have a good one. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks Mick, you are right. I've been thinking about this a bit over Christmas and I'm probably fooling myself thinking my first real layout is going to be a perfect replica of a certain station in a very specific timeframe (it was going to be the first days of Cardigan, 1869). I'm either going to continue with this compressed, compromised version of Cardigan or hone my skills on something smaller, but keep the option of carrying over the loco and rolling stock to the final layout when I'm ready to start. In fact, I'm so convinced I'm going to proceed this way that I've already drawn up a little trackplan with many of the features of Cardigan, but keeping pointwork to a minimum as I'll be making these from the Easitrac range - I've never used a soldering iron before! I'll post a trackplan to the relevant section later tonight and link to it from here so you can have a look and comment, make any revisions or suggest alternatives. Thanks all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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