m davies Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Not really sure if this goes here, but as the project grows then this'll be the right place. Call it a blood rush or just pure insanity, I decided to have a bash at some Gauge 1 stuff, I've already got a WC/BoB in progress but wanted something else to occupy my time . It'll all be scratch build, some resin casting and some photo etching. My inspiration was kick started at Warley when I saw the massive 5" Gauge class 40 http://www.flickr.co...05/tags/warley/ very impressive, whilst I have no space for 5", Gauge 1 can be accomodated...just. The plan, theres always a plan isn't there , is a wood former over which a plasticard shell is formed/heated/molded, this then forms the master with additional details for a resin mold, the last stage allowing more than one model to be built. Anyway, having cut the former and cleaned it all up ready for skinning I had a thought, the only issue so far are the slight discrepancies in the wood formers, being hand cut etc, whilst I think the current work will be good enough, perfection would require pieces cut with greater accuracy, current less than 0.5mm error thus far. So cutting to the chase, can anyone recommend a wood laser cutters, or sites to visit, google...ever efficient seems to draw a blank, probably my phraseology in the search box truth be told!. Current progress here http://www.flickr.co...s/gauge1deltic/ I'd post the images direct but with the ongoing issues, links will have to suffice for the time being. Thanks in advance Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 There is always Ponoko and 4D Models though if you are in London this place may work out cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 There is always Ponoko and 4D Models though if you are in London this place may work out cheaper. Excellent, thank you very much, the two UK ones look reasonable, to be honest for the simple frame work I require I don't think cost will come to that much. I found another whilst browsing http://www.yorkmodelmaking.com/modelrailway.html I think I've seen them mentioned here by satisfied customers. Laser cutting masters for formers certainly opens up new avenues for mold master making. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Just a little progress report for those interested, skinned the former with 32thou ply, theres a couple of (hungry horse effect) low spots on the cant rail radius, so the next stage is to apply fiberglass inside to stiffen it all up and then fill/smooth the exterior ready for plasticard forming. Will try the image uploading this evening if I get a chance to remove the need for people to follow external links. Also finally got around to cutting some more 1:1 letters for a few more repro Deltic nameplates, enough for Tulyar, Pinza and Meld so far. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Good day, I look forward to progress on this particular technique to make these multiple bodies for this larger scale as I think my woodworking skills maybe better than with a soldering iron! Best regards, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 You and me both, brass and solder is ok so long as the project is square, steamers are ok so long as the boiler is pre-rolled or resin, diesels which require roof rolling just leaves me up a creek with out the proverbial paddle . Rolling bars would help but the cost of a set that will roll a roof nearly 18" long on say a class 40 or 50 are expensive. The wood working is typical over engineering , the formers are 9mm ply as was the side stringer, the base and roof crown are strip wood 6x12mm. The formers were cut on a scroll saw, accurate enough but not as accurate as laser cutting, hence the original repose. Laser cutting also uses thinner materials so it'd need a rethink on some fundamental parts like stringers, sizes, orientation and numbers etc. The skin is 32 thou or 0.8mm in Euro numbers, it bends easily to a radius of 51mm for the roof but is a little tight for the cant rail radius of 15.5mm, you can go thinner which might help with the tighter radius but does need care to make sure it will not split. Even with the formers being 100mm apart there's still some distortion in the skin between the formers where it tries to remain straight/flat (50mm would be a better spacing) so you get a very slight dish effect at the sharpest radius (this'll show up more once the first layer of paint goes on and the first rub down occurs), using wood means it can be easily filled and sanded smooth. The most important part I found when using this technique on a model boat hull is to strengthen the skin from inside before you begin the final external preparation, if you don't then you tend to still retain the dished areas as they flex and remove a little when sanded even though the higher former parts are also sanded down. I've two choices now, I can either use the former to bang out plasticard bodies which I then make models from, or use the former to make a master plasticard body with primary detail on and then resin cast, roof vents will still need to be etched brass, and that will need to be formed before affixing to the final body, still lots to do, but hopefully resin and fiberglass tonight so it can set overnight and then final cleaning of the former ready for plasticard forming, and that'll be a whole new ball game, ie making it consistantly soft enough to form but not too soft that it ends up in a puddle LOL, hot water and ovens have been mentioned elsewhere, but how hot and how long for the thickness I'm using will still need to be determined, but I will post here the highs and lows . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Ok, a small update, the Deltic former didn't go to plan, one side was perfect, the other, well despite much sanding and cursing the cant rail radius is wrong and seems to have slipped down the body side a bit LOL. The problem comes from being able to effectively clamp and hold the skin in place at odd angles and differing radii, whilst the main curve is ok the smaller cant rail curves tend to try and even themselves out to a larger radius, effectively when you look along the body side instead of it being flat it has a profile more akin to a B shape where the skin from the cant rail and tumble home have bowed a little. The first side is ok as it was weighted (15Kg) and so the skin is perfectly flat, but the second side wasn't weighted in the same way, hence the problems. This of course leaves a bit of a conundrum, one side is perfectly usable, so one could form one side, then turn the plasticard and form the other side, or make two sides and join in the middle. Revisiting the dimensions the cant rail radius required was 15.5mm, if you add 0.8mm skin and 1.5 mm Plasticard, a trip to the local 'merchant' revealed 1/4 round segment at 16x16mm, Hmmm possibilities here, by not skinning the cant rail or sides then 16mm will work, true scale it'll be 0.3mm under scale (9mm real world) but that can be added back with a thin plasticard skin over the main 1.5mm skin. So armed with a whole hand full of flat, round, half and quarter round pieces of wood I retired to the thinking den. A revised master was designed, consisting of very think soft wood sides, atop which rests the 1/4 dowel, spacers between the two decide the width and the only part thats not 'bought' is the roof main center formers, these were cut from 4mm ply and affixed a top the spacers. If the previous was over engineered then this is positively Neanderthal LOL, but its rock solid and perfectly square and removes the risk of complex curves ruining the skin, indeed only one part is now skinned, the center roof section. In other words the only bits than can go wrong (ie the bits I make ) are limited and broken down into smaller parts. The final part is to blend the two roof sections, which is a simple sanding exercise (we'll see about that LOL). Attached a couple of images that show the shell construction before the roof skin (now attached and setting) was applied, for the curious the sides are 15x65mm (trimmed in height to the correct height), the spacers are 10x65mm (trimmed for correct width) and cut to height, the center roof formers are 4mm ply cut to shape, the center roof stringer is 6x12mm, the roof skin is 0.8mm ply. The hardest part is finding wood in above mentioned 'store' that is usable, most modern softwoods are barely dry and finding straight and square wood that can be used can be an exercise in frustration, luckily they had a good supply, but out of 20 or so pieces, only a hand full were usable. The biggest problem was actually the 65mm pieces, whilst flat and square over their longest lengths were slightly bowed across their beam, actually they are following the wood grain which is curved (easily seen in the end on shot), to overcome this a quick run down both sides with an electric plane set to 0.25mm cut made nice flat pieces all round. Sharp eyed people will notice that the new former isn't a Deltic, its actually a Class 40 (a side project along with a class 50), I figured adding the tumble home as well as the new roof technique was a step too far, if this comes out ok then I'll redo the Deltic to this new style but with some alterations to the lower side where the tumble home is. If the roof sets in time tonight I'll append the images here. Note, ammended the title to reflect the project, thanks to all for their assistance in the laser wood cutting question, will persue several avenues when the time permits and necessary CAD skills learnt (getting there, but slowly ). Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Michael, Thanks for the prompt to look at your thread. It sounds as thought this isn't quite as straightforward as I first imangined (well, relatively)... but progress seems to be being made.., which is good. I'm impressed at the speed at which these have been created... and problems aside, it's looking good. I suppose the tricky bits will be the nose ends... something that the RTR manufacturers seemingly continue to struggle with... so it'll be interesting to see how you get on. As always... here to help (aren't we all on here?) Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There's a kit for a gauge 1 deltic although having seen it you might be better with your scratchbuild. I can find out who makes it for you if you like Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Jim, I believe it is the Wagon & Carriage Works priced at £380 for the nickel silver body, etc. without motors, gears and wheels........ http://www.wagonandcarriage.co.uk/ Kind regards, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 There's a kit for a gauge 1 deltic although having seen it you might be better with your scratchbuild. I can find out who makes it for you if you like Cheers Jim Jim, yes there is and yes I'm probably better making my own scratch build , GBMRG has quoted correctly and I have looked at it, though the current crop of images might not be a true reflection of the kit, one cannot take into account the builders skill or experiance so it would be unfair to dismiss the kit off hand on the current photos around. The other issue is the scale, its Gauge 1 or 10mm to the foot, I've decided to go the 1:32 scale (9.5mm) route so that the loco scale matches the track scale better, much like your good self with P4, though in the case of P4 where you scale the track to the loco, 1:32 scales the loco to the track, its a small niche area but it is growing. To be fair I have mildly considered grabbing one as a punt but its the cost, current screen shots and the scale that all work against it, this way if I'm successful I'll be able to make two or three from the same mould. Still a long way to go mind, they also do a Class 40 and 45 and to date I've never seen any images of either of those models, but again there 10mm scale. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Michael, Thanks for the prompt to look at your thread. It sounds as thought this isn't quite as straightforward as I first imagined (well, relatively)... but progress seems to be being made.., which is good. I'm impressed at the speed at which these have been created... and problems aside, it's looking good. I suppose the tricky bits will be the nose ends... something that the RTR manufacturers seemingly continue to struggle with... so it'll be interesting to see how you get on. As always... here to help (aren't we all on here?) Jon Jon, your welcome, its your inspirational work in the smaller scales that kicked all this off in the first place . It is relatively straight forward, just an appliance of science, the initial former was overly complex and required too many parts to be too accurate to work correctly, the less parts you have to sand,machine, cut yourself the better the final item, the old adage K.I.S.S certainly worked here, the second (Class 40) former has turned out very well, so well that with some refinements will form the basis for most of the forthcoming formers I'm planning. Speed LOL, just have excess time on my hands at the moment . The nose, aha, that nose, well given that Ian Strange's book details every curve and radius required to produce an accurate nose, I have no excuse for getting it wrong now do I! . The nose/cab assembly will form a separate model in its own right, but first I need a good mid section to bolt everything too. Right, now that the Class 40 former is complete, its time to redress the Class 55 issue and build a new one to the same technique. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi michael I have seen one up close and if it's indeed nearly £400 it's not worth anywhere near that! I just wondered if bits might be useful but not at that price Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Jim, You're probably right and as Michael will probably tell you the kit is only about a third to half of the cost. Motors, gears, wheels and radio and/or track control gear making up the balance. Not a cheap option! Hence why I'm very interested in this thread as the techniques could be used for multiple production of modern stock that is not even remotely available, e.g. Mk2 and Mk3 carriages, and all the departmental and wagon stock available in the smaller sizes. You have to remember that most of this scale appear to have live steam models and are scratchbuilt apart from some key components such as wheels where you can buy the castings. You also have the option of running round the track after them to keep you in shape! Michael, The Cl 40 main body looks great and look forward to seeing the same completed section of the Deltic in due course. Inspirational is all I can say! Best regards, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Jon, your welcome, its your inspirational work in the smaller scales that kicked all this off in the first place . It is relatively straight forward, just an appliance of science, the initial former was overly complex and required too many parts to be too accurate to work correctly, the less parts you have to sand,machine, cut yourself the better the final item, the old adage K.I.S.S certainly worked here, the second (Class 40) former has turned out very well, so well that with some refinements will form the basis for most of the forthcoming formers I'm planning. Speed LOL, just have excess time on my hands at the moment . The nose, aha, that nose, well given that Ian Strange's book details every curve and radius required to produce an accurate nose, I have no excuse for getting it wrong now do I! . The nose/cab assembly will form a separate model in its own right, but first I need a good mid section to bolt everything too. Right, now that the Class 40 former is complete, its time to redress the Class 55 issue and build a new one to the same technique. Kindest Michael Michael, you're very kind. What you're doing though is more ground breaking that what I did... and it looks to be the best approach to shape refinement. The scale issues wasn't something that I'd appreciated... but I like the idea... a bigger HO using propriety track - ok, I admit that's a bit cart before horse, but you get my gist. as for smaller scales... I've just started to wonder what I could do with a Farish Class 55; time to walk away... very quickly from that idea. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Michael, you're very kind. What you're doing though is more ground breaking that what I did... and it looks to be the best approach to shape refinement. The scale issues wasn't something that I'd appreciated... but I like the idea... a bigger HO using propriety track - ok, I admit that's a bit cart before horse, but you get my gist. as for smaller scales... I've just started to wonder what I could do with a Farish Class 55; time to walk away... very quickly from that idea. Jon Jon, ground breaking?, maybe, in model rail circles, but not marine modeling. SWMBO popped her head around the door a while ago, starred, pondered and then walked away muttering to the kids "he's turning more perfectly good wood into saw dust again!", to a certain extent she has a point LOL. To be honest this is the easy bit and I find its best to stay focused on the task at hand a small mind to the next one, but beyond that, pay no attention as it becomes distracting, there is after all RTV moulds to cast, resin to cast, photo etch to draw and have produced, in total a lot of work and head scratching, individually, all possible with a little patience I'm sure. 2mm Deltic, ohh thats an easy answer, Belle Isle model, between Copenhagen and Gasworks tunnels . Anyway onwards, the current pressing thought for this evening (whilst turning more good wood to saw dust) is to unravel whether to cut then form or form and then cut (vents Windows etc), each having its own plus and minuses. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Jim, You're probably right and as Michael will probably tell you the kit is only about a third to half of the cost. Motors, gears, wheels and radio and/or track control gear making up the balance. Not a cheap option! Hence why I'm very interested in this thread as the techniques could be used for multiple production of modern stock that is not even remotely available, e.g. Mk2 and Mk3 carriages, and all the departmental and wagon stock available in the smaller sizes. You have to remember that most of this scale appear to have live steam models and are scratchbuilt apart from some key components such as wheels where you can buy the castings. You also have the option of running round the track after them to keep you in shape! Michael, The Cl 40 main body looks great and look forward to seeing the same completed section of the Deltic in due course. Inspirational is all I can say! Best regards, GBMRG Thank you, not sure about inspirational mind LOL, thought provoking I hope, always many ways to skin a cat as they say. I know what you mean about RTR in this scale (covering all scales that make up Gauge 1 title), there is very little modern image stuff around, other than W&CW you mention above theres only Fred Phipps and his Warship / Class 22 models, again kits, expensive but certainly worth the cost, I dimly recall £450 for a resin loco, sundry parts etc, requiring only wheels and motors to finish. Offer that against a JLRT diesel and you certainly get more bang for your buck and Mr Phipps IMHO comes very close if not surpasses JLRT in some respects with regards to quality of product. Theres also a class 14 in the works, but most kits or models seem to aim for the great BR change over period of late 50's - early 60's diesel-steam era. I think the men in tweed would spasm if you turned up at a meet with a coal sector Grid or Railfreight Bone, on reflection perhaps I should have gone for the Bone over these others first, much simpler to produce, not to worry I'll get to my beloved coalies at some stage . I'd not considered coaches, certainly the mould method would work very well there, but the windows?, tackling them could be problematical if you wanted thin frames, both the Deltic and 40 will have etched brass windscreens to get the required thinness but a whole coach, that'd take some solving . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 .....The wood working is typical over engineering , the formers are 9mm ply as was the side stringer, the base and roof crown are strip wood 6x12mm. The formers were cut on a scroll saw, accurate enough but not as accurate as laser cutting, hence the original repose..... A Deltic body made out of wood would be something too....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Michael, I like your thinking....... A nice railfreight black diamond bone with twenty or thirty odd HAA wagons behind following one of the kettles around the track and every time they come to a grinding halt asking them if they need any coal for their engine! Lol. When they politely decline and say their engine is meths fired there is the opportunity to say the train behind is an EWS/DB Class 59/2 or a petroleum Class 60 with twenty odd TEA wagons to fill you up........ Plus, if the flame had gone out I'm sure someone has a Skip or Type 4 Thunderbird around here to call on.......... (A little license on my part as I do like live steam engines too. I hope to build one or two and finish off two others that have been acquired!!) On a more serious note and back on topic, the present thinking on the coaches is to follow your method to get the carriage shape as the basic shell and build on this with key common detail to make a completed body ready for moulding. Finer detail for vehicle specific, e.g. Mk2d TSO vs. Mk2d BSO, would be cut/added to the final resin/GRP cast using whatever works best. Internal strengthening would be added a la standard boat building techniques during the casting process. The windows. Hmm. A quick thought, dangerous for me, maybe stuck on brass etches for raised window frames from the body? The window 'glass' might be interesting, inserts are a possiblity once a jig has been made to mass produce them? The three differing sizes of Mk2 coaches can be easily catered for by making the orginal wooden mould longer than is necessary and then cutting it into three. One section making the shortest version, an add on section for the intermediate and the third for the later builds. The coach ends being cast separately and 'bolted' on. I think the freight vans might be easier as they could just be basic boxes made of wood or plasticard and either have scribed in detail or marketry wood/plasticard added. Similar to the late David Jenkinson's technique explained in Carriage Modelling Made Easy. Drain pipe or some such to make the tank wagons - they could even be filled with liquid! I have in the back of my mind that Marklin had operational twin axle continental tanks where you could fill at the top and empty via a tap........ A few random thoughts....... All the best, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 GBRMG, Nowt wrong with steam, I'm a big fan of LMR kettles, throw in the odd ER and SR one too , just not a fan of the prices some of these fetch!, I'll get to live steam one day (might have to have a scale rethink or excuse tucked away somewhere though LOL) but looking at electric for the moment. Fully agree with your technique, the very same way I'm planning these projects, hadn't considered boat building strengthening techniques though, that is an interesting thought, add thin ply longitudinal's or cross members, would also keep the cost of resin down, ie use the ply as a bulk filler as well as a strengthener. Anyways, now off shift block so can dedicate a little more time to the project, its becoming rapidly clear that my current tools are not up to the task of getting accurate wood formers, accuracy being a result of luck more than skill!, so its time to look out for some more equipment, a disc/belt sander combo set (Chester tools) is in the offing as well as a decent table saw (Proxxon?), these two should allow much better formers to be machined and shaped. Until these arrive its back to basics, Stanley knives, big files and Black and Decker power tools LOL. I had a rethink on making the Deltic sides and it follows on a little from the Class 40 seen above, the attached sketch shows the basic principle and I think would be a suitable candidate for making Mk2 sides?. Two sides (black) were dutifully planned with varying degrees of success/failure and the first skin added (red), the small blue piece being used to assist the ply skin to form the correct curvature. Once all set and dried it was offered up to the plans, turns out I mis calculated dimension X on the first piece, hence the sanded skin seen on one of the sides, using ply has its benefits as you can sand quite accurately using the different colored layers, if they're all straight and equi-distance then your curve should be uniform. The second base piece had measurement X amended and the skin remains intact. Conclusion, the technique has merit but fails in two aspects, the ply is quite thin (0.8mm) and so will flex in the areas marked yellow, effectively you need more blue pieces to space out the skin, or a better method of getting some adhesive/resin into the yellow areas. My process was to attach the skin on the flat part first, let it set and then add glue into the yellow areas, bend the skin and clamp, however there is only a 5mm gap at most to fill in the glue, smaller at the blue section, around 2mm, thus very little glue has gone into the yellow section between the blue piece and the flat section, with a strong light you can see right through. The problem now is finding a material that will dry strong but has enough fluidity to be poured down the length, wood glue is to viscous as is resin so I might resort to varnish, or throw them on the wood burner and make new ones LOL. The jury is still out on this technique and the center sections and roof formers will have to wait until the new tools arrive, until then I'm going to try some plasticard forming on the Class 40 body, that should be....entertaining!. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hello Michael, Yes the steam engines are a little on the pricey side........ Hence why I'd like to build them myself! Glad you like my thinking on the coach building. When I finally get a workshop then it will be full steam ahead, if you pardon the pun! With respect to your yellow cavity in the sketch, and if I read correctly, can I suggest the following thought? Firstly you create the side as done with the blue former in place for the correct profile. Secondly drill a series of holes in the black section into the yellow area, possibly more the better but evenly spaced. Next secure the whole lot together as I presume the red section is the outer skin for the mould. Through the holes you should be able to inject / pour material that will give you the flexibility / support you require for the red skin. Here, I am thinking of something like sealant that can be injected with the other holes drilled along the work indicating it's progress / distribution along the cavity so that you know how far to move along. Also, with the holes not showing signs of the filler coming up then you know where to start / back fill. Hope this sets the little grey cells going......... Kindest regards, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Aha, interesting solution, it'd certainly work if starting from afresh, it might work retrospectively.....if I drill very carefully!. Sealant might not dry hard enough, but no nails most certainly will and that can be pumped in with a gun. Right off to try and drill some holes, the former is 16" long so I reckon four or five 5mm holes should suffice. Attached a drawing showing the initial problem after the skin was stuck to the flat side before forming the tumble home, dimension X=10mm, Y=5mm and Z=1-2mm, glue yellow was too thick to drop through the gap efficiently. Also a drawing showing proposed holes required to rectifiy the current problem area. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hello again! Yes I did think of the retrospective aspect with a liquid plaster slurry or diluted non waterproof woodglue but thought the water might mishape the wood. If you do drill all the way through what would be the most serious thing that could happen? You can just fill the hole up with some of the No Nails mixed with some sawdust, of which you might already have some? A handy tip to know when doing woodwork that I picked up at school......... With metal it would all be a different story with back filling holes with weld or solder......... If you are going to use injections then can I also suggest you use a hole large enough only to fit the end of the No Nails, or similar, container to get a decent seal as it might help with getting the stuff in there. Also, you may need to drill two holes at the furthest distances for each cavity that has not bonded, one for the injection and the other for the escaping air. For those of a larger size multiple holes maybe required because if memory serves No Nails has a certain viscosity that may preclude its travel in the cavity you are trying to fill. (If you haven't realised this is a technique used in large metal casts.......lol.) All the best, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Follow all that and been there and back since last post LOL. Well some success and some failure....nearly, holes 2.5" apart are not enough, I worked from one end to allow the air to escape, applied plenty of no nails, holes suitably drilled for a snug nozzle fit, 5mm for those interested, the glue did not escape from the next hole along, so drilled some intermediate holes and found tip of drill had no nails on so there was some in there, added more no nails anyway. Removed part from vice and turned over (modeling side up) and disaster, seems the pump gun pressure is far greater than the 0.8mm ply can handle so it had bulged out, silly really, that which can flex in can also flex out, simple physics really, all of which I failed to take into account!. A quick whizz with clamps and metal work smoothed all but the very worst out, but that will sand smooth hopefully, I had hoped to keep the formers with their wood facade but being ply its beginning to show the dark/light areas where its been smoothed so it'll end up sealed and primed with paint no doubt, shame as there is a certain satisfaction in well presented wood. The second side went much better, no lumps but probably haven't filled all the cavities, I will let the no nails dry and then maybe drill some intermediate holes and perhaps back fill if required, however I suspect what little air pockets exist are of such small size as to not allow the skin to flex very much, I won't know that until the existing no nails has hardened. On reflection something a little less viscous would have been better, perhaps just the wood glue direct from current dispenser nozzle would have sufficed?, I didn't think I could get enough pressure to fill the cavity, I suspect I could have done truth be told. Still it has recovered the existing pieces, just...but there not safe from the wood burner just yet LOL. Drilling the holes was fine, nice and slow and you can feel when it breaks through, more so if you place a finger on the outside of the skin, whence you can feel the drill just push the skin out a fraction as it breaks through the base piece. The only downside to this technique may be the adhesive shrinkage, both wood glue and no nails shrink a little so we will have to see what its all like in a few hours. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well no more 1:32 Deltic today, GBMRG tip about the back fill holes worked a treat, the no nails dried solid, very little if any flex left, purchased some more materials for finishing the masters off, some tough varnish to coat and seal the wood then some Halfords primer, sand it all smooth and remove the last of the wrinkles and then some Halford Lacquer should produce a workable master for forming, the Class 40 will be the first to test all that, hopefully tomorrow. Meantime, I spent the rest of the day on project B, finally finished the rest of the letters for two more nameplates, the other letters will have to wait till tomorrow for the third nameplate. Each letter is cut as a double so the pile of letters is growing for other nameplates, may consider a regiment after these four race horses. Tonights little teaser is, spot the mistake on the finished nameplate, and for double points spot the mistake on the real #19 nameplate by the original builders. Theres more to these names than one might imagine, clearly made by several people or several workshops, I though Doncaster made them all, but will have to research that a little more . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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