m davies Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just a little update, finally got my tools today from the Model Engineering Exhibition at Alexadra Palace so I should now be able to accurately cut and machine the rest of the wooden parts for the Deltic former and crack on with the project, hopefully tonight when things quieten down on the domestic front , I'll try and grab a couple of shots of the new machines...when the boss is looking the other way LOL. Mean time heres a taste of whats at the Exhibition, I'll hopefully upload a few more photos later tonight, though I think this is all the train ones that might be of interest. http://www.flickr.com/photos/32755955@N05/sets/72157628956803117 Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Some nice photos there Michael. Was gonna go with a colleague today (presumed he went) but too much to do... will save spondoolies until the March show Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jon, Thank you, sadly due to the low light and my refusal to go lower on the ASA setting on my camera, some shots were blurred, whilst some excellent models were just crammed in and almost impossible to photograph, let alone look at, shame really as there is some stunning craftsmanship there. I kept coming back to that 5" Stanier tender, so much so the stand attendee politely pointed out that all the models were security linked, I think he thought I was going to make off with it LOL, mind its not the sort of thing you can slip in your pocket, and truth be told you'd probably collapse 100m from the door with the weight LOL. There was a 5" UP Big Boy, only the frames, but the author reckoned that once finished would weight nearly 4 tons!. I keep getting drawn to 5" locos but reality and lack of space preclude even the smallest of subjects, my great grandfather used to make 7 1/4 scale, his interest and desire for large steam seemed to skip two generations but I'm sure some lingers in me . March show ? wheres that please, overheard some chaps talking about a show up north which was more rail orientated and much better, darned if I can remember where it was now. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 March show - Ally Pally - where you were today - london festival of railway modelling. Missed last year, but aim to make it this time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jon, Thanks never heard of that one and my shift rota has weekends off for most of March, then pure day shift from there on in, so thats one to go in the book for me as its only just down the road, ie closer than Warley , plus I prefer the more natural light you get at Ally Pally for photography than the sodiums at Warley. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 24th-25th March.., maybe see you there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes I see, the only weekend where shift partially impacts on the weekend, Fri and Sat night, bahhh, my two last night shifts too!!, will have to check at work to see if there's enough cover, would be nice to put a face to the name . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ok a little more progress on the Deltic former, some good and some bad, the new tools worked fine and I modified the small roof former sections from the Class 40 former by making the side V shaped and chamfering the cant rail 1/4 round wood former, in the Class 40 the 1/4 round remained with square sides which required the roof to have a sort of T profile, quite fiddly to cut. Unfortunately whilst chamfering the 1/4 round it slipped and took a few mm too much off one side, the result can be seen below where the roof skin has been sanded to blend in and has become very thin, sadly I sanded before applying the fibre glass inside, so that side....not show...has flexed a little whilst sanding and become slightly lumpy, hopefully once the fibre has set (issue 2) then it can all be sanded smooth. The other issue was on the Class 40, to protect the exterior I applied varnish sadly two things happened, it failed to dry rock hard (didn't do what it said on the tin) more a flexible skin, second when it entered the wood it, for want of a better word, fluffed up the pores, trying to sand that smooth whilst not being rock hard was a problem, in the end I sprayed it with car primer which helped harden it up. Not wishing to got through the same with the Deltic I decided to apply fibre glass resin, no mat, just liquid resin, to the exterior, that does go rock hard, however as I had two bodies to fibre glass inside I made the mixture a little weaker...thus 18hrs later its still a little tacky on the outside, it will harden eventually, the model boat I did with this technique took about a week to be rock solid so it will harden eventually, its just the time waiting that annoying. Still, will try today to form my first shell on the Class 40, I have 1.1mm and 2.1mm plasticard to try, still not sure whether to form and then cut windows and vents or vice versa, humpf?. Anyway, the pictures, the new tools, the Deltic body exterior and interior where its been sanded thin. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Little update and some advice if anyone knows, tried to form a test piece of 1.1mm plasticard around the 40 former, only a 2" slice, but bend?, the devil will it, hot water doesn't touch it, a 2.2Kw hairdryer still no effect, placed the test piece in the oven at 150C to see at what temperature it began to soften, zilch, the corners just started to shrink and curl, its pliable but will not accept the curve readily or stay set when cold. Just tried a piece of 0.55mm with the hair dryer, in the vain hope of laminating from two-three layers, it just will not soften enough to form a curve readily!. Almost at the point of resorting to plan B and make the whole shell from Plasticard in a similar vein as the wood and then force bend the plasticard round and glue to interior formers, unless someone can shed some light on how to form plasticard. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ok small update, the wood formers whilst ok were useless, you just cannot heat such a large area of Plasticard and hope to form it, not in a domestic environment anyway, the class 40 former only just went in the oven and finding enough boiling water to cover it or a container big enough were problems I could do with out. So now they sit out of the way, lesson in how not to do it or as we say at work "keep it simple stupid" . So back to old school, its been a long time (nearly 20 years) since I cut Plasticard in fury, but it goes quicker with practice , the basic box core is done and temporarily held together for sizing up and checking squareness and alignment, the two sides need their interiors smoothed and filled to make them suitable for the casting process, no point having smooth neat outsides if the inside looks like the back of your worst kitchen cabinet LOL. The sides are two laminations, an inner 2.2mm that forms the core, outside a 1.1 provides and extra skin for strength, openings are cut but oversize to allow the final skin to be thin for glazing, not sure how thin you can cast in resin with out support/or the nearest support to the thin area that the support needs to be, does that make sense?, probably not but all will become clear in the future. The area around the door handles has not got the inner core, still undecided how best to tackle this and allow access to fit the rebated handle area later from the inside. The reason for the lamination is simple, I found it almost impossible to cut 3.3mm windows square so used the bench saw to effectively cut U shaped openings then use an offset in the laminations to allow bridging pieces to be placed a top the windows and radiator. There are currently four bulkheads and above them separate roof formers, I could have made them one piece but getting the roof curve to match the other half frames was problematical due to construction techniques, the body bulkheads are slotted within the inner core, another reason for using a lamination. The only downside so far is the ability for the box affair to parallelogram, ideally it needs a roof or floor to keep it square, problem with that is that you loose access from within and boxed sections when gluing Plasticard are a big no no, the fumes can emanate for weeks afterward and suddenly your lovely model starts to sag in the most unwanted places! (learned that the hard way many years ago!). Boxing also prevents you making an internal plug for casting later on from the same model. One could make holes in the floor or roof sections, but again you will loose the ability to cast an internal plug from the same model, I think some triangular section in the corners will have to suffice, it'll square up once the roof is formed over anyway, just need to stop the sides flexing whilst that is carried out. Next step is to clean it all up and then begin adding the primary skin and roof grill sub support sections, the primary and secondary skins will both be 0.55mm, that will only give a 1.1mm roof skin, too thin for casting so an extra sub roof will be added from with in later, spaced 2mm from inner skin, making a total thickness of around 5mm, though not solid on the model. With out further ado the photos of the test mock up, some valuable lesson learned so far, that will ease issues when I start the Deltic. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sorry that it's back to the start Michael, but I like the revised plan. Can't offer any advice or suggestions at all at this stage.... but well done for bighting the bullet and changing tack. good luck Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks, the first Deltic former with its mis-shaped side, certainly brightend the wood burner for a few minutes LOL, the other two I've kept, the class 40 former has cracked from its trip to the oven, only 5mins at 120C, but its enough to crack some of the joins. The Deltic one now looks quite the art work once the resin had hardened and given it a nice gloss finish . Hopefully some more WIP next week after shift block. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just a small update, I've been plouging on with the Class 40, lots of issues trying to laminate the Plasticard sheets, but getting there slowly, B side is now complete ready for smoothing and application of details (probably once the rest of the body is complete to this level) such as engine room door surround, windows surrounds, hand rails etc. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 An excelent piece of modelling. It looks superb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Excellent modelling, will follow with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think you deserve to be pleased with this Michael.., it seems to be coming together nicely now. at least this shape is a little easier that that twin-engined EE masterpiece that I presume is to follow . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think you deserve to be pleased with this Michael.., it seems to be coming together nicely now. at least this shape is a little easier that that twin-engined EE masterpiece that I presume is to follow . Jon, whilst the slab sides of the 40 are easier than the 55, the roof is not, the 55 can be modeled with etched grills/roof panels covering the base holes in the Plasticard, the 40 cannot, the openings have to be almost perfectly square and uniform so that the slat section can be inserted. Pleased, sort of, there's a lot wrong with the sub construction, things that made life difficult when skinning, and I've just found out two side windows are off position longitudinally by 1mm, not much, but you notice them because they do not line up with the grills exactly right, and they are the final skin openings too. Whilst this is MkII, there will certainly be a MkIII, there's no way you could use this for casting, but it is a useful test model, I'll complete it but may just use it as a back drop model, maybe on an inspection road, or jacked up receiving attention, we'll see, it may all work out in the wash. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Perfection can take a little while to achieve. In the mean time, here's a little light music. Stick with it Michael... you know that it'll be worth it! Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 well it might have been a while, but you can cut plasticard with the best of them. It looks like it will be superb Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 .....Tonights little teaser is, spot the mistake on the finished nameplate.... Possibly the shape of the letter "N"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Possibly the shape of the letter "N"? Fraid not, its the M, it's the wrong way round, the thinner of the two verticals should be to the left!, its taken me nearly two years to spot that LOL. Thanks for participating. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Guy, Kelly, Peter, Jon, I will keep plugging away, I'm hoping the total will out weight the individual niggles. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Guys, need a small favor, the roorf drawings I have are circumspect at best, can someone with a JLRT class 40 simple measure the distance between the left and right exhaust ports, center to center, also the arc lenght of the roof panel around the radiator fan, the one with all the bolts in, or simply the width of the panel, I should be able to work out the arc length from that. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle Speculation Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hello Michael, These are not arc lengths but I'm making it 19mm centre to centre between the exhaust ports and 44mm for the bolted fan roof panel. Good luck with your inspiring build - I'll be watching with interest. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Alan thats just fine, I can work with those figures, thank you very much for taking the time to help, I'll cross reference my guestimations with your figures tonight when I get home. I am really tempted to just get a JLRT for doing just that, simply as a cross reference for my figures, cheaper than driving to NVR and measuring the real thing LOL. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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