RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted July 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2013 It depends. Officially certainly post-war repaints on 'ordinary' locos were restricted to General Overhauls only but in practice depending what happened on other shoppings limited repainting might have been carried out depending on what 'new' or exchange parts went onto the loco. So in theory, a 1934 72xx in 1942/43/44 (just before the major overhaul) could still have the 'Great Western' still on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 6, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2013 So in theory, a 1934 72xx in 1942/43/44 (just before the major overhaul) could still have the 'Great Western' still on it? Quite possible - especially as shopping intervals for many locos became extended during the war - but it would have been so filthy I doubt you could even have seen what colour it was painted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted July 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2013 ...... during the war - but it would have been so filthy I doubt you could even have seen what colour it was painted! Would it have been that bad after the war Mike? - Was no cleaning done / hardly any cleaning done during hostilities? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 6, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2013 Would it have been that bad after the war Mike? - Was no cleaning done / hardly any cleaning done during hostilities? Probably not much better post-war Neal. During the war most depots suffered major shortages of Cleaners and those there were probably spent most of their time firing anyway. Post war the situation wasn't much natter at some depots - for example Kenneth Cook relates how he had a 'Castle' transferred from Old Oak to Canton because within a couple of months of being outshopped it was very dirty. Old Oak was one of those depots where recruitment was difficult and where more than a few Enginemen resorted to the trick (also practiced to my knowledge at Tyseley at that time) of oiling the inside motion of a 'Castle' with a couple of buckets of oil thrown between the frames. And Old Oak was, again, one depot which required - and got a considerable influx of men recruited in the West Indies in the 1950s in order to take up vacancies for Shed Labourers but a (never talked about) colour bar was practiced for footplate line-of-promotion jobs which of course included Cleaners - and that didn't start to show teh slightest hint of breaking until the late 1960s. All was not sweetness and light in the post-war years and contemporaneous photos sometimes show some very dirty locos. But it wasn't just at that time - many photos of pannier tanks, in particular, taken between the wars show them to be distinctly grubby and obviously not receiving much cleaning attention although larger locos were better looked after. And the GWR was not alone in this - in my collection I've got a number of photos of Midland singles in their twilight years and some of them are dirty and obviously hadn't seen cleaning rags and waste for several weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 An excellent thread Mike, on one of the GWR's most impressive locos; almost as appealing as the GCR/LNER 0-8-4's. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 6, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2013 An excellent thread Mike, on one of the GWR's most impressive locos; almost as appealing as the GCR/LNER 0-8-4's. Cheers Simon Do I detect a slight hint of bias there Simon (and I'm not telling you what else is in my postcard collection but you did get very warm). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Dave F's excellent thread shows how dirty most engines were post WWII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclebobkt Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 The 2-8-0Ts were always predominantly South Wales engines ... . ... I suspect that one reason why they never spread too much beyond South Wales was not just lack of suitable work but their unpopularity with some footplatemen. Stationmaster, Pray enlighten me - what is the reason for your suspicion for their unpopularity with some footplatemen? The 2-8-0Ts were always predominantly South Wales engines ... . ... I suspect that one reason why they never spread too much beyond South Wales was not just lack of suitable work but their unpopularity with some footplatemen. Stationmaster, Pray enlighten me - what is the reason for your suspicion for their unpopularity with some footplatemen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 5, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2015 Stationmaster, Pray enlighten me - what is the reason for your suspicion for their unpopularity with some footplatemen? Stationmaster, Pray enlighten me - what is the reason for your suspicion for their unpopularity with some footplatemen? I knew a number of South Wales enginemen who hated them with a vengeance on longer distance work (such as the Salisbury coal trains) because of hot cabs and, at times, poor riding, plus - I got the impression - restricted range for water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I knew a number of South Wales enginemen who hated them with a vengeance on longer distance work (such as the Salisbury coal trains) because of hot cabs and, at times, poor riding, plus - I got the impression - restricted range for water. Ah yes - never passed a water column with a tankie, always top up if possible. Plus a good firemen would check the injector overflow and slightly close to water feed valve so that not a drop pf water was wasted. Hot cabs in summer, but nice in winter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Looking at a link before I came across this photo showing the inside of the bunker http://www.7200trust.org.uk/photos.aspx?cat=restoration&photo=100116029.jpgIt shows the shape of the hopper bunker and that all of the space could be used for water at the expense of coal. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclebobkt Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I knew a number of South Wales enginemen who hated them with a vengeance on longer distance work (such as the Salisbury coal trains) because of hot cabs ... . Ah, yes. And yet weren't the GWR. tender locomotives notorious for having such open cabs at the rear - in inclement weather nothing but a scrap of tarpaulin strung between the cab's. roof and the tender to keep-out the rain! Several times I was stationed at Manorbier - near Tenby, Pembs. - where the local saying was: 'If you can see Caldy island it's going to rain; if you can't see Caldy then it's raining.'. On a more serious note, and according to Wikipedia, I see that the 72XX. class accomodated some 6T. of coal and 2,500G. of water - hence, possibly, the need for frequent WC. stops! As a matter of interest were such a loco. to start its journey fully watered from say S. Wales and going to Salisbury, then roughly how many miles could it steam on just 2,500G. of water? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted May 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2015 Some of them were modified to hold 2,750gal water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Regarding the workings of the 72xx when Oxley had a number up to 1960s they had a regular working from Oxley to Crewe via Wellington and Market Drayton. I have a photo of one of the class sitting on Wellington shed presumably on a Oxley to Wellington service probably calling at Hollinswood yard. I have also a photo of one of the class working north through Wellington with a train of loaded iron ore hoppers. Does anyone know where this train originated and it's destination? One theory is that it is from the Banbury area and was probably going to Brymbo steelworks, but is this true? Suggestions gratefully received. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Mike, Great thread - only about 8 or 9 years too late for my 5205, which I built in about 2003! I have finally got around to doing the cab details of it, after all this time. Apropos of which, does anyone have a decent photo of the backhead & other cab fittings? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 30, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2015 Mike, Great thread - only about 8 or 9 years too late for my 5205, which I built in about 2003! I have finally got around to doing the cab details of it, after all this time. Apropos of which, does anyone have a decent photo of the backhead & other cab fittings? Best Simon Try GWRob ('A nod to Brent' is his thread) Simon - he had a trip on one on the Torbay line a while back and might have taken some pics in the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 David, Brymbo is almost certainly the correct destination ex Banbury OIC. fired 7218 and 7221 on that working. Plus sundry other machines that were sent north post haste! And yes 72"s were not very popular at Banbury either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 The preserved GWR 2-8-0T certainly has a kick that was felt in the leading coach. Much like being hauled by an industrial tank loco. The 72XX's going through Wellington enroute to Brymbo (possibly) interests me. Any mention of 2-8-0Ts on this steel job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Thanks to those who tried to help! Managed to find this rather deluxe custom cab... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GWR_4200_Class_4277#/media/File:4277_Hercules%27_Controls_(8122488446).jpg In absence of lots of photos of 42/52xx cab interiors, the next best thing is a Prairie, found this, which at least places the ATC box & bell, and the water gauge. I assume there was not much difference between the classes, so I'll get on with it! http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:5164_Kidderminster_(1).jpg Photos of loco cabs are common for the tender classes, but tanks are difficult. The wiki commons does have some others. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 These are of a small? prairie at Llangollen a few years back. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Western tank engines, like all Western engines, were very good at pulling trains but not so good to work on and the tank engines I think were particularly poor for the crews. I only have experience of the 61"s & 72"s but the water tanks came into the cab back to the doors making the footplate quite narrow, firehole at floor level and also the shovel plate into the bunker. The cab roof used to work loose on its fixings and shear the bolts so it could rise and fall just enough to make a continuous hammering noise and the levelling pipe between the tanks was very small. This last feature prompted most drivers to instruct the fireman to fill the boiler right up, bubbles in the glass and wot no steam space! Dampers shut & don't let the bloody thing blow off. At Banbury this meant that you tiptoed off shed to the OIC but stood a very good chance of getting to Tysley before needing to take water. That with 22 ironstone hoppers on the drawbar. Somebody asked was there a reducing valve in the vacuum brake? Yes on the 72"s I fired also on the 38"s. Why slow down a brake application? never found out. But that's the way they were, when you went on a turntable, as soon as the front wheels went on to the table, full brake application and she would normally balance right. Cannot believe that was the reason for the reducing valve! Hope this is of interest, a window to back in the day. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2015 Would it have been that bad after the war Mike? - Was no cleaning done / hardly any cleaning done during hostilities? Sorry to drag this up, I didn't see the 2013 date and wrote it, but felt it was worthy of inclusion on the thread! My understanding is that by 1940/41 we had gone into 'Total War' mode and man power in Britain was incredibly short, particularly as we didn't have the population size at home as the German's did, but our industrial output was expected to 'keep pace' with theirs. By 1944/45 a number of regiments and units had to be stood down, as we simply didn't have enough men to fill the gaps of troops either killed in action, or wounded. Despite 1 in every 10 conscripted men aged between 18-25 going to the mine from 1943 onwards, coal and steel production continued to fall. Part of this was experienced miners had already been called up and thus untrained Bevin Boys took their place, but we simply didn't have enough men to meet demand. Cleaning of a locomotive I expect would have been in the 'we wish' pipe on the Depot Foreman's desk! Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted July 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2015 Worth noting that the 72xxs were occasionally allocated to St Blazey for china clay work in place of the more usual 42/52xx. What was more common: Square framing over the cylinders or the 52xx curved framing? I assume that the 72xxs with the 52xx had the bigger cylinders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Re Coachmans question of whether the 2-8-0 tanks were seen on the Brymbo iron ore trains through Wellington, I have been collecting photos of the Wellington area for 40 years and have not come accross any photos of the 2-8-0 tanks. The 2-8-2 tanks were seen regularly as Oxley had an allocation. However there is a photo of the Brymbo iron ore train going through Shrewsbury in June 1963 with a County 4-6-0 on the front. The front smoke box number plate is missing hence the lack of identification. The photo appears in The Lastyears of steam around the Midlands by Michael Clemens by Fonthill Press. Some nice colour photos. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 To add to the 72xx travels, I have just come across a photograph of 7220 in Cornwall working an empty coaching stock working at Marazion in July 1950. Mike Wiltshire A bump for this thread to ask if 7220 has the fender fitted to the bunker in that shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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