What MIGHT I have seen?

[JeffP]

The list of steam locos I never saw in "real life" is long, due to the fact that I wasn't born until 1952, and my parents wouldn't let me go far on my own until I was aged 11, plus my father steadfastly refused to take me to watch trains, no matter where we were, nor to fund excursions to places further afield than Doncaster, (2/9d half-fare, cheap-day return).

 

Two places we stayed at on holiday were Pwllheli and Burton Bradstock.

 

It's Pwllheli that fascinates me. I was around 4, or maybe 5 yerars old, and remember spending quite a lot of time at the crossing gates in our camping field, watching steam trains pass. This would have been either late July, or early August. I had, at that date, no inkling that steam locos HAD numbers, or were very different.

 

So...any experts, or denizens of Pwllheli who could tell me what sort of locos I might have seen, around 1956, or 1957?

 

Thanks.

[Fat Controller]

I've never been to Pwllheli, nor am I an expert on the area but, coincidentally, I bought 'Great Western Branch Lines, Volume 2- Rural Wales' by Michael S Welch at Canterbury show yesterday. For Pwllheli, 22/05/56, there's a shot of two BR 2MT 2-6-0s, 78002 and 78007, on passenger stock.

A little later than the period in question (5/8/61), there is mention of no fewer than seven tanks (the only ones mentioned in detail being two 2-6-4t) passing Afon Wen (the junction of the Caernavon and Cambrian Coast lines) within an hour!

A 1962 shot shows a Collett 2251 at Porthmadoc.

Another 1962 shot shows two BR 3MT tanks crossing on Dovey Junction- Pwllheli workings.

There is another shot of a GWR Mogul; I believe Manors also worked there. Dukedogs would also have appeared in the period up to the late 1950s.

[brushman47544]

I don't know the area but presumably any locos allocated to Machynlleth shed at that time could have appeared at Pwllheli? Were any other nearer sheds open too - Barmouth? If so an Ian Allan ABC Combined Volume (I think the reproductions include shed allocations) might help.The Winter 56/57 edition was published in July 2011 so should be readily available.

 

EDIT: Just found a review on Amazon and it seems this volume does not include the shed allocations from the ABC Locoshed Book. Sorry. I have a reproduction volume for 1959 and it does.

[The Stationmaster]

Definites on the Coast line at that time were 2251, 43XX (various series thereof0, 45XX & 4575 tanks, and 90XX 'Dukedogs. It is quite possible the 78XX 'Manors' got up there as well off the Ruabon line.

 

I'm not at all sure when the first 82XXX standard tanks arrived or if Ivatt Class 464XX worked through to Pwllheli although they were photographed at Barmouth. Another later arrival - date not known by me - were the 75XXX Standards although 75020 was phot'd at Pwllheli in 1957.

 

LMR trains off the North Wales coast (worked 2-6-4Tanks) reversed at Afon Wen and the LM engines worked the trains over the final stretch to Pwllheli judging by contemporary photos

[Dukedog]

Manors most definitely, 22xx Collett goods, 45xx small Prairie tanks, 90xx Dukedogs (pushing it a bit most were withdrawn by the end of the 50's)

Maybe some BR standard classes. class 4 4-6-0, Class 2 2-6-2T,

Ivatt class 3 2-6-0 MTs were common on the coast line, so probably made it all the way to Pwllheli

Then there would be the odd ExLMS stuff that made it from Caernarvon via Afon Wen.

Fairburn 2-6-4tanks and Stanier 2-6-2Tanks were common on this turn.

I can't ever recall seeing or hearing any Black 5 workings though.

 

.As well as Mach, there were sheds at Porthmadog and Pwlheli.

 

I'm sure I've missed some classes though such was the variety of loco on the coast line at that time.

 

Cheers!

Frank

[Guest Phil]

Pretty well summed up already.

Afonwen - Pwllheli was able to take heavier locos than the former Cambrian metals towards Portmadoc, hence ex LMS 2-6-4 tanks, which I have never seen evidence of south of Afonwen.

[Guest Belgian]

Didn't the 'Radio Cruise' trains run up to Pwllheli in the mid-to-late '50s? Would they bring larger or 'different' engines to the line.

 

Edit: I've just googled these trains and it seems the Standard class 4s were the most common and that they ran twice a week in the season from Pwllheli in a circular route. Ivatt class 2 moguls were also frequent performers. In the early 1950s the trains included one of the LNER streamliner Club Cars and an LNWR 12-wheeled Club Car. See this.

 

JE

[JeffP]

Ah, Manors and Dukedogs, two more of the classes I missed then.

Sadly, the list also includes Scots, both types of Pates, Princesses and the Coronations, Counties, Granges, Lord Nelsons, King Arthurs and that's only the big stuff.

 

Oh for a time machine.......

[Dukedog]

Pretty well summed up already.

Afonwen - Pwllheli was able to take heavier locos than the former Cambrian metals towards Portmadoc, hence ex LMS 2-6-4 tanks, which I have never seen evidence of south of Afonwen.

 

Phil,

I have read and seen pictures in books of some Ex LMR locos going down to Porthmadog to save engine changes at Afon Wen. as far as I know they never went any further because of axle loading issues.

 

Cheers!

Frank

[ThePipersSon]

Nothing specific, but the book 'Scenes from the Past :4 - The Cambrian Coast Railway' will give you plenty of ideas of what was running about that time.

[StaffsOatcake]

Pretty well summed up already.

Afonwen - Pwllheli was able to take heavier locos than the former Cambrian metals towards Portmadoc, hence ex LMS 2-6-4 tanks, which I have never seen evidence of south of Afonwen.

 

There is a photo of an ex LMS 2-6-4 at Portmadoc shed in one of the pubs in the town. but I'm not sure which one it is now.

[Guest Phil]

Phil,

I have read and seen pictures in books of some Ex LMR locos going down to Porthmadog to save engine changes at Afon Wen. as far as I know they never went any further because of axle loading issues.

Cheers!

Frank

 

There is a photo of an ex LMS 2-6-4 at Portmadoc shed in one of the pubs in the town. but I'm not sure which one it is now.

 

Of course. Thanks both for correcting me. I was writing without reference to my Cambrian bookshelf !!!

[buckdancer]

We holidayed at Talybont right next to the railway in the mid to late 50s.

Trains there were, but they were very few and far between.

On the WCML in the early 60s, the odd express would go past with Pwllheli on the coach destination boards, but I'm not sure what traction they ended up with by the time they got there.

[Fenway Park]

I think there is a photo of a Black 5 at Penychain on a Butlins train in the Foxline book or one of the Bill Rear books. Perhaps another member could confirm.

[Dukedog]

I think there is a photo of a Black 5 at Penychain on a Butlins train in the Foxline book or one of the Bill Rear books. Perhaps another member could confirm.

 

You could well be right.

It's just that I can't recall seeing anything when I was a snotty nosed kid with gaberdine mac and Ian Alan ABC!

But, there again I only ventured that way for Holidays which was two weeks out of 52!

I don't own all the books covering that area either and again in my limited library I can't recall seeing anything about a Black 5.

All of which does not prove that there wasn't a Black 5 working on the Afon Wen section.

 

Having said that, there was a Black 5 on the Cambrian a couple of years ago on the "Cambrian" steam specials!

 

Cheers!

Frank