The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hi everyone. I am a recent returnee to this great site, having finally started in Railway Modelling a couple of years ago ....... it was an itch I've always wanted to scratch, going right back to my yoof, watching the great Bob Symes on saturday morning TV, on "Model World". I guess modelling of one form or another has always been in my blood, starting with plastic kits, then RC cars, and finally on to RC Aircraft, but Model Railways were always there in the back of my mind, and I knew I would get round to them someday !! This hopefully (if all goes to plan and I don't stuff it up!!) will be my first layout, as my only other attempt came to a grinding halt early on at the track laying stage a couple of years ago, due to life stuff getting in the way. But ...... here I go with a clean slate, and the same idea as before ....... a Modern Image Cement and Stone plant in 00 gauge (inspired of course by the brilliant "Cement Quay" by Chris Nevard) I hope you forgive any innacuracies or glaring Railway related mistakes ....... I admit at the outset to not having a great knowledge of Railway matters, but I still get the same thrill as ever, when something thunders past on a Railway line, particularly if it is Freight or Industrial. I have called my fledgeling layout "Riverside Cement" and hope you enjoy following along. Please feel free to comment or give advice ...... all will be welcome, as I am picking this up as I go along, and there are bound to be a few hiccups along the way !! Right then, I'll start at the beginning ........ this is the first rough sketch I did of the layout ...... not to scale, but I did have some of the buildings started, so I knew roughly what I was aiming at. The baseboard for the layout is 6mm MDF....... 64 inches long x 21.5 inches wide, with a 12 inch high backboard of 3mm MDF, curved in the corners. The front section is lowered, which will eventually be water (hence the "Riverside") this is another nod in the direction of Chris Nevard ...... I "borrowed" this idea from him, as I always think it adds that little something extra to his layouts. Here's the state of play at the moment with the baseboard ....... just a bit of tidying up to do at the front as things progress. I have redrawn the plan of the layout to scale, but have ommited the trackplan for now. I wanted to get the layout of the buildings right first, as they have to "look right" to me before I procede ...... The tracks service the buildings anyway in real life, so thats the way I am going about it !! ....... I don't know if thats how everyone else does it, but thats me plan anyhoo ....... If it all goes pear shaped then I've only myself to blame !! ......... Here's the scale version of the plan ....... the only uncertainty at the moment are the buildings to the right hand side ....... hence the question mark. The trains will come into the layout from the right hand side, so I want to disguise the hole in the side of the board with a building of some sort ....... probably scratch built too ....... so the trains come in underneath the building maybe ....... still planning that one out at the mo' The Stone Processing building is served from the Stone mounds, which in turn feeds (via conveyors) into the Wagon Stone Loader, or the Cement Plant. Here's a shot of the Baseboard with some of the buildings in place ....... the Stone Processing building will be scratch built. As you can see I have the basic shape of it in 3mm MDF offcuts, and plenty of Wills corrugated sheeting to finish the job. The Cement factory buildings are a mixture of Walthers and Faller kits, and are still in the process of being built. Also, I lowered the Cement buildings and silos by 3 inches after assembling them, as iI felt they were a little too high ........ which in turn made for an overly high backboard. As for the Wagon Stone Loader, well that is the excellent Bachmann Scenecraft jobby ....... and very nice too !! Anyway, thats the state of play so far ........ I will post more as things progress, and look forward to any comments or advice given. Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taytrain Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi there, a very nice start, look forward to seeing this progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi there, a very nice start, look forward to seeing this progress Thanks very much mate !! ...... Nice of you to say so ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted March 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2012 I hope you don't mind me commenting, but I don't really understand your process flow! Your stone processor feeds both your stone loader (presumably for aggregates) and your cement factory. The big issue is that your cement factory is not a cement factory. The basics of a cement plant are as follows: raw materials in the form of limestone (mostly) and fuel (coal, oil, petcoke, waste or gas) are fed into a rotary kiln via several pre-heaters. The kilns are huge - a wet kiln is typically up to 200m long, even more modern kilns are 75m. The kiln produces clinker which is then ground up and mixed with other materials (eg blast furnace slag or fly ash with a bit of gypsum) to create cement. The building you have called a cement factory could be a grinding and mixing plant for this last step, but it wouldn't have an input from the stone processor, the inputs would be slag or flyash from offsite and clinker from the kiln. Sorry for being technical! Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 No problem Mike !! Just using lots of artistic licence ...... I know if I built an accurate representation of a cement factory I would need a lot bigger board !! I'm from an engineering background myself and understand the working principles of cement production ........ I'm more going for the feel of a Cement plant than a bang on accurate representation. Cheers anyway !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good luck with this. It was Cement Quay that finally brought me back into the fold after a 30 year absence. looks like you're off to a cracking start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi Simon, nice idea, although I too was puzzled by the layout of the plant. We're building one in 7mm at our club and the kiln is about 1 metre long but we've managed to fit it all into a 12ft layout, most of the plant is behind, well, that's our excuse for not modelling it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The Cement factory buildings are a mixture of Walthers and Faller kits, and are still in the process of being built. Also, I lowered the Cement buildings and silos by 3 inches after assembling them, as iI felt they were a little too high ........ which in turn made for an overly high backboard. Probably in reality a little bit too small. Most of the Walthers and Faller ranges are to 'HO' rather than 'OO' principles - sure I know those are track gauges. But what this means is that they are made to work with those tracks. They are to 3.5mm:foot scale not 4mm:foot. The end result is with some rail related buildings (eg Glacier Gravel Co) clearances become impossible for OO unless modified to suit. So the buildings are already too small for OO. But it doesn't really matter, its your layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good luck with this. It was Cement Quay that finally brought me back into the fold after a 30 year absence. looks like you're off to a cracking start. Cheers Chris !! ........ by the way ....... love the signature you've got !! .................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'll follow this with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1X Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 cracking layout! will follow with interest !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi Simon, nice idea, although I too was puzzled by the layout of the plant. We're building one in 7mm at our club and the kiln is about 1 metre long but we've managed to fit it all into a 12ft layout, most of the plant is behind, well, that's our excuse for not modelling it. Hi Wordsell ...... Aye, I reckon thats gonna' be my excuse too ....... "most of the plant is behind" ....... works for me mate !! Probably in reality a little bit too small. Most of the Walthers and Faller ranges are to 'HO' rather than 'OO' principles - sure I know those are track gauges. But what this means is that they are made to work with those tracks. They are to 3.5mm:foot scale not 4mm:foot. The end result is with some rail related buildings (eg Glacier Gravel Co) clearances become impossible for OO unless modified to suit. So the buildings are already too small for OO. But it doesn't really matter, its your layout. Hi Kenton. You are right about the Walthers and Faller buildings being a tad on the small side, being HO and not OO, but the only potential issue I had with wagon clearance was with the Cement loading shed, and the Bachmann JPA's I have aqquired fit under a treat !! BTW ...... I know the 08 shunter in the Serco livery is a bit out of place (and from my understanding its been painted over in yellow now anyway ?) but it's just such a nice colour scheme, so it's back to the artistic licence ........ it's been leased as my yard shunter !! After consideration, the comments posted about the Stone processing building make sense too, so I am thinking of losing the conveyer that runs from said building to the Cement Works, and maybe instead having one run from the Cement Works to the buildings on the right hand side. These buildings could be for bagged cement, with a small siding running to a loading platform at the front side. I'm still at the semi planning stages ...... nothing set in stone yet, so I'll see if I can make this work. Cheers !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'll follow this with interest. cracking layout! will follow with interest !!!! Thanks ....... welcome aboard !! ........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 After a little tweaking of the drawing on Paint, I have come up with a slightly modified plan. It now seems like a more realistic option ....... I have lost the conveyor from the Stone Building to the Cement factory, and added one from the Cement Factory to the buildings front right, which will be served by a siding. Also I have moved these buildings towards the back of the layout slightly, to allow for the track at the front ........ the exact placement to be decided when the shape and size of the buildings are finalised. Here's the original plan ........ And then the modified plan ....... I reckon that will do nicely ......... think I'll sleep on it and have another look at it tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2012 They are to 3.5mm:foot scale not 4mm:foot. The end result is with some rail related buildings (eg Glacier Gravel Co) clearances become impossible for OO unless modified to suit. So the buildings are already too small for OO. But as most non-UK loading gauges are larger than the UK, (especially the US) the HO clearances are usually more than adequate for British 00. As YP has clearly shown with his JPA's. Although I have to be PC and point out that the Castle Cement JPA's are actually loaded in Lancashire.......... (About 6 miles from where I live). What you really need as a shunter is a Clayton in Ribble Cement livery! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi Simon I think the revised process flow is much better! I might be tempted to do away with the chimney as well or replace it with something like Chris N has on Cement Quay. Glad you didn't mind my comment - after having spent too much of my working life working on reference documents for cement plants I tend to notice pedantic things like that! Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hello Simon, I like the looks of this a lot, the second plan gives the impression of a lot more plant that is off board. Makes the imagination work a bit. I will watch this with interest. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 But as most non-UK loading gauges are larger than the UK, (especially the US)Â Â the HO clearances are usually more than adequate for British 00. Are you sure. It most certainly isn't the case with Walther's Glacier Gravel Co where the hoppers are both too narrow for most wagons and definitely too low for my loco fleet. You also only have to stick a 4mm scale figure in any doorway to realise that your people population require shrinking. I'm not complaining though as I find the range of models far more inspirational and open to alteration than some of the "toy" like "samey" resin structures to come out for the "OO" market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2012 Are you sure. It most certainly isn't the case with Walther's Glacier Gravel Co where the hoppers are both too narrow for most wagons and definitely too low for my loco fleet. You also only have to stick a 4mm scale figure in any doorway to realise that your people population require shrinking. I did use "most" and "usually" to qualify my posting. I'm not familiar with the Glacier Gravel structure, but with a few other Kibri and Faller buildings that had adequate clearance for 00. Like you, I'm trying to keep away from the r-t-p buildings as much as practically possible. Anyway back on-topic. Looking good as a project - but you still need a Clayton, or a Judith Edge kit. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Good luck with your project , I will watch with interest. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 But as most non-UK loading gauges are larger than the UK, (especially the US) the HO clearances are usually more than adequate for British 00. As YP has clearly shown with his JPA's. Although I have to be PC and point out that the Castle Cement JPA's are actually loaded in Lancashire.......... (About 6 miles from where I live). What you really need as a shunter is a Clayton in Ribble Cement livery! Cheers, Mick Hi Mick. I don't mind, be as PC as you like mate !! ....... but this fictitious Cement Plant is firmly situated in Yorkshire Pud land ........ ...... Ribble Cement indeed !! ......... ha !! Joking aside though, I'm only just starting out, and it's me first layout, so strict accuracy to reality might not always apply !! Gonna' have some fun though ........ Hi Simon I think the revised process flow is much better! I might be tempted to do away with the chimney as well or replace it with something like Chris N has on Cement Quay. Glad you didn't mind my comment - after having spent too much of my working life working on reference documents for cement plants I tend to notice pedantic things like that! Cheers, Mike No problem Mike ....... I didn't mind the comments, thats what I asked for, and they were good points made ....... but sorry, you've had one of my conveyors ....... you can't have me chimbley ......... I likes me chimbley !! Cheers !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hello Simon, I like the looks of this a lot, the second plan gives the impression of a lot more plant that is off board. Makes the imagination work a bit. I will watch this with interest. Paul Hiya Paul. I'm favouring the second plan more now myself ....... I've had a day to think about it, and it looks more balanced to the eye, plus as you say, the impression is that there is more Plant off board. Glad you are enjoying it so far. Simon. Good luck with your project , I will watch with interest. Hugh Thanks Hugh !! ....... nice to have so many following along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi again. Just thought I would post a few more details about what I'm planning. Operation of the layout is going to be DCC ....... although at the moment, I only have a small handheld Gaugemaster DC controller, which has been handy for running in the 2 locos I have presently. I did have a Bachmann DCC EZ controller a couple of years ago, which I regret parting with now, and I also managed to chip the loco I had, so hopefully that shouldn't be a problem going forward. I've decided to invest in the NCE Powercab controller for the layout ........ I've had a go with one a few times, and found it very easy to use ....... and it's only a small layout, so its ideal in my book. Still undecided on whether points will be changed by motor, or by Hand of Pud (via some pushrod arrangement probably) Also, I'm familiar with Peco code 100 track from a couple of years ago, but I'm thinking of trying code 75 for the better looks ....... Points too will be Electrofrog ...... I've tried both kinds unmodified, but this will be the first time I permanently fix and ballast track in place, and I don't want to have to start ripping things up in future if said points start malfunctioning, so ........ modified or unmodified ? ....... Hmmmm ...... now there's a debate thats run and run !! ...................... As you can see, I still have a bit of thinking left yet ........ I've a fair idea of the trackplan I'm aiming for ....... it won't be overly complicated, but hopefully will have enough operational interest too. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Check with Peco to see what you have to do with electofrog points. They are very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 ...but you still need a Clayton, or a Judith Edge kit. Or maybe an ex-BR 14, still in blue with the number patch-painted out. And as for a JE kit - a Thomas Hill Vangaurd or Sentinel would fit in quite nicely. I'm also keeping an eye on this project - looks very promising indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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