Metropolitan Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I happened to sell an 00 gauge DJH Duke of Gloucester on eBay recently. A chap, who lives in the Philippines spotted it too late and after the sale contacted me to ask me to build one for him. Over the years I've had many such requests and have always said no on principle. But this chap persisted!! And persisted!! Anywaysup, he actually then phoned me and caught me, unawares, in a good mood having spent the afternoon in the pub watching the rugby I said Yes. And stupidly I blurted out a price off the top of my head of £500. Then, when I'd sobered up, I realised that I actually had not got a clue how much it costs to build a loco even though I've built over a hundred!!. I know people do do it for a living but do they make any money? Can a loco be built to a price? So this thread is just a record of what happened. We agreed that the spec would be 'out of the box'. Nothing added, nothing taken away. I set my criteria as 1)Very Good Running Qualities and 2) Well built but no extras or bells, whistles or extra detailing. And with these in mind I set to with disciplined hard working sessions. The cost of parts was as follows. - Kit and DJH AM9 Motor Gearbox - £184 - Markits Wheelset - £64 - Fox's All in One Lining sheet. - £14 - Aerasol of Railmatch BR Green Paint - £8 - Humbol Paint & Varnish, Halfords primer - Already had them so say £3 - Flux (Home made) 145 and low melt solder say - £5 - Plates - included in the kit. - One ruined Soldering iron bit (don't ask!!) and broken 0.8mm drill bits - £6 So that err........ well, there not much money left to build it!!! So here is the loco 17 hours into the build: Had a bad fight with the footplate. I think the moulds must be wearing out. Also your on your own with regard to a drawbar. The instructions offer no clue. I went for the American pickup system in the interest of speed. Hopefully another 3 hours should do it. - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 .....So here is the loco 17 hours into the build.... Does that break your previous record time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So about £10.80 an hour for your time. Seems reasonable to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Now wait for the 'orders' to flood in. Better you never ever entertain a good mood engendered by either of beer or rugger every again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 3 hours to paint and do the lining?- took me 3 months on mine ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 My build price is about £400 for one of these. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 You'll remember next time to say 'plus the kit and bits'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You'll remember next time to say 'plus the kit and bits'. THAT is precisely where you went wrong. And also where most buyers don't think beyond. I used to think the cost of building was about 150% of the cost of the kit, painting about another 100% and lining&decals another 50%. (as a rough guide) but then realised that the price+quality of kits varies far too much for a rough guide like that. One of the most important things is that you have to treat it as a job and not a hobby. A job you might get pleasure from but can soon become a chore and it takes finite time to complete. I think your 17hrs is admirable though is not this made considerably shorter by having built one before? Having found and then ironed out all the issues once it should be plane sailing with the next one. Of course paying hourly rates in the Philippines you can get a lot done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yep. I've built one before Kenton. And several of the DJH BR standard class that seem all to use the same cab etc (which are a biit grim). And I am sure you are right, pratice makes perfect ish! Still, I am encouraged. Kit built loco's are once again becoming an economical option compared to RTR's. Who knows; I might even pack up work and do it full time!! John A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Good luck with lining up future commissions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 10 years ago, I had several DJH kits built professionally. At that time the cost was between £300 and £400 depending on the complexity of the kit. This included the labour and painting, but excluded everything else. When you mentioned £500 at the outset, I thought that was probably about right bearing in mind inflation etc over the last 10 years. Of course I didn't realise that included materials.... On that basis you could be swamped with orders... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 ......On that basis you could be swamped with orders... Wonder how much this fella charges...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You can build me a B16 based on those pricings! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The cost of parts was as follows. - Kit and DJH AM9 Motor Gearbox - £184 - Markits Wheelset - £64 - Fox's All in One Lining sheet. - £14 - Aerasol of Railmatch BR Green Paint - £8 - Humbol Paint & Varnish, Halfords primer - Already had them so say £3 - Flux (Home made) 145 and low melt solder say - £5 - Plates - included in the kit. - One ruined Soldering iron bit (don't ask!!) and broken 0.8mm drill bits - £6 Looks to me like you left off the: - Blood - Sweat & - Tears (even if most of those were spilled "learning" the kit the first time you built it) I'm sure the new owner will be very happy - well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Wonder how much this fella charges...... If you need to ask you can't afford him......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hello Met., what I do is to get the customer to supply the kit, wheels, motor, etc. Then it's the cost of building the kit, plus the cost of cleaning and priming the kit, the only paint work that is included in the build price is the frames. The cost of painting is over and above the build price. If he wants a wooden packing case that is at cost price. Looking at your costings it looks like you have done yourself out of about £300. Also don't forget the P&P cost as it will need to be insured, and it's going to the Philippines, that could cost a bob or two. OzzyO.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hello Met., what I do is to get the customer to supply the kit, wheels, motor, etc. Then it's the cost of building the kit, plus the cost of cleaning and priming the kit, the only paint work that is included in the build price is the frames. The cost of painting is over and above the build price. If he wants a wooden packing case that is at cost price. Looking at your costings it looks like you have done yourself out of about £300. Also don't forget the P&P cost as it will need to be insured, and it's going to the Philippines, that could cost a bob or two. OzzyO.. The postage cost in on top. I don't feel too badly done by given that I am building to a price. I suppose you get what you pay for. Looking at these old DJH kits now I can see how crude they are. With this kit the cab is terrible and quite frankly the chassis is a joke. But they do go together easily and quickly. Nothing would please me more than to receive a commission where I could take my time and use all my skills to produce a masterpiece but I guess that just ain't going to happen!! And actually I am finding this just as stressful as my regular job!!! But there again for £500 the guy is getting a very robust and useable model which will last for years and years and even though it isn't going to win any prizes it does the job and I think it passes muster. One hours more work: (Spray BR Green, Hairdry, and hand paint the black bits) So now 18 hours. (Painting though is a bit stop and start) Still, I am still on target. What could hold things up is if the transfer sheet isn't fresh and they break up into a million bits which is all too common!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If he wants a wooden packing case that is at cost price. Appropriate or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Appropriate or not? Well, they say you can't take it with you...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard carr Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Its a nice model, just make sure the guy has paid you before you send it off to him ! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2012 I heard of a guy who would build a kit for the cost of a second kit - you buy two kits, wheels, motor etc and then he would build both at the same time, giving you the option of taking which ever you preferred - in theory they should be identical. He then had the second one for his own collection or to sell to get some income. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I heard of a guy who would build a kit for the cost of a second kit - you buy two kits, wheels, motor etc and then he would build both at the same time, giving you the option of taking which ever you preferred - in theory they should be identical. He then had the second one for his own collection or to sell to get some income. Mike In some respects not far off a reasonable idea as one kit could be seen as the practice one. The main problem though is that the sale prices (from ebay) for a finished kit (even a good one) frequently fail to reflect the cost of the kit let alone the work value added. Like everything in life some expect a lot for what is nothing. Appreciation is usually confined to those that really cannot do it themselves (who are often shocked by reality) or those that simply don't have the time and to whom cost is largely not an issue (who often want more than the impossible). Many people whinge and complain about the cost of RTR and are numb when it comes to the cost of the bespoke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just dug out an old painting & lining price list and it was £120.00 for a BR green tender loco in 2001. Funny but I'm sure I charged more than that in the 1990s. Anyway, I hope you can line out as fast as you can build! No idea what 12 years inflation would mean to that painting pirce but add that to Mike Edge's £400.00 for assembly and the amount you arrived at for parts, and there you have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just dug out an old painting & lining price list and it was £120.00 for a BR green tender loco in 2001. Funny but I'm sure I charged more than that in the 1990s. Anyway, I hope you can line out as fast as you can build! No idea what 12 years inflation would mean to that painting pirce but add that to Mike Edge's £400.00 for assembly and the amount you arrived at for parts, and there you have it. Hi coach I'm aiming at a time of 20 hours all in but think now it will end up as 22 hours. Which makes the loco semi affordable. Lining out is therefore by transfer and wont take too long. £400 is too expensive for construction alone IMHO as I will complete the loco within 22 hours if you don't count having to nip to B&Q for some white spirit. Also not included in the timing is pacing about and cogitation!! John A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Given the low inflation rates up to 2009 this would now be around £150-160. Someone has already suggested that you get what you pay for and perhaps this is true in some cases. However, as very skilled model makers, am I the only one who feels that Larry and Mike should be asking a little more for their work? If the market didn't tolerate it (setting aside the current strain on peoples' disposable income) then it probably shows how much value they attach to examples of true craftsmanship these days. Sadly, no way near enough in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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