RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 I was about to wow lovely model Jeff when I realised it was the real one. Just shows how good some of your stuff is Jeff. Don Don - you flatterer, you!!! Cheers! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 Jeff, Don't forget, if you scribe the building you will need to scribe the chimneys. They are of course much more fiddly and looking at the size you will probably need the stones in them to be scale size. Should be good though, although you may want a side project, or just run some trains when your fingers ache. Having said that it is all straight lines and perpendiculars so may be more straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 Hi Chris. Don't get the wrong idea - I WILL be building the station buildings, but that'll definitely be something for next year. I really need to get the hillside/aqueduct/cutting section sorted next as they are all interconnected. I have a "wagon project" underway - when all is ready I'll set things up and have a good play - and post lots of pics to keep Bodgit and Chip happy! I must admit, though, that TRYING (I've not done proper buildings before!) to build a slightly smaller version of KStephen station buildings (I don't need the full thing) for KL certainly appeals. I'd never have said that, even under torture, 18 months ago!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 Hi Chris. Don't get the wrong idea - I WILL be building the station buildings, but that'll definitely be something for next year. I really need to get the hillside/aqueduct/cutting section sorted next as they are all interconnected. I have a "wagon project" underway - when all is ready I'll set things up and have a good play - and post lots of pics to keep Bodgit and Chip happy! I must admit, though, that TRYING (I've not done proper buildings before!) to build a slightly smaller version of KStephen station buildings (I don't need the full thing) for KL certainly appeals. I'd never have said that, even under torture, 18 months ago!! Jeff Jeff, I don't doubt that you will build the station building, and the goods shed, signal box and station masters house, and probably out of DAS. I just like to point out the obvious as I often miss it. Having seen what you have built so far I am sure you are more than capable. If you are going to make it smaller it would be a good idea to know what is in the prototype, in the way of rooms, offices etc and then work out which ones you won't need, or am I being a pedant? If you do not detail the insides, and I am not suggesing that you do, then a building with a random set of doors will be fine, and a toilet block. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 Cheers Chris. You clearly have more confidence in my ability to build the thing than I do!!! I'm in a lucky position as I was given free access and use to a mine of information collected by Ian Macdonald, builder of Kirkby Stephen West, a renowned exhibition layout. I was just (20 mins ago!) looking at just the stuff you refer to. I'll go and dig out some relevant diagrams and post them below. I'd love to build the whole thing - the constraint being space on the main platform (it's slightly curved). anyway, a problem for the future! And I totally appreciate you bringing things to my attention - as I'm bound to miss things out. Back shortly. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 Here's the relevant detail... A quick estimate shows the main building to be 80-90' long, so 35cm max to scale. I can probably manage that! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 Jeff, Fascinating! I notice that the Station Master's office also housed the ticket office but the porters had a room to themselves. Why is it called a 'Waiting Shed', and what is 'Dust'? Of course when you have built it you will need to populate it with about 15 staff and 1 passenger. (They may not have had that many staff in the 60s and maybe 15 was across two shifts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 Maybe dust was sprinkled onto the platforms as a kind of de-icer? I've got HUNDREDS of diagrams and photos, historical and taken on-site over a ten year period. I can't thank Ian enough - if I was a real pedant I could spend a year making a detailed 0 gauge model - I have photos of all the room interiors etc. If I build the thing I'll just bother about the outside - I think a detailed interior would be going too far!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Jeff, I think you are right. You would need to model it with at least one door open and interior lights, and if you are doing an exact replica you would get someone telling you that the seats in the waiting room were wrong, and that picture on the wall was taken down in 1959, and the toilets were never that clean! Edited October 12, 2013 by ChrisN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) That station building is definitely one to look forward to but 7mm stone facing is probably not the way to go! In fact you would perhaps be wiser to go the other way and use Slater's 2mm Dressed Stone which is closer to scale than the same item intended for 4mm. Alternatively SouthEast Finecast 7mm Plain (Stretcher) Bond brick is ideal for regular coursed stone in 4mm. If you do decide on Das count off the courses and see how they work out to scale before you make a decision. Regards Bill Edited October 12, 2013 by Mythocentric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Jeff, I think you are right. You would need to model it with at least one door open and interior lights, and f you are doing an exact replica you would get someone telling you that the seats in the waiting room were wrong, and that picture on the wal was taken down in 1959, and the toilets were never that clean! Welcome to modelling and showing things on-line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 Jeff the waiting shed is that bit with all the glazing I suppose people just stood in the when the train was due whereas I suspect on a winter's day there would have been a fire and seats in the waiting hall. I llooked again at the picture I think one of the reasons I thought it was a model is the platform is so clean no litter. I suspect by the time you get round to this you will be making stones out of das and building it up :nono: Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2013 Jeff the waiting shed is that bit with all the glazing I suppose people just stood in the when the train was due whereas I suspect on a winter's day there would have been a fire and seats in the waiting hall. I llooked again at the picture I think one of the reasons I thought it was a model is the platform is so clean no litter. I suspect by the time you get round to this you will be making stones out of das and building it up :nono: Don I hadn't thought of that.... good idea..... NOT!! Unless I subcontract it out to Bodgit! That station building is definitely one to look forward to but 7mm stone facing is probably not the way to go! In fact you would perhaps be wiser to go the other way and use Slater's 2mm Dressed Stone which is closer to scale than the same item intended for 4mm. Alternatively SouthEast Finecast 7mm Plain (Stretcher) Bond brick is ideal for regular coursed stone in 4mm. If you do decide on Das count off the courses and see how they work out to scale before you make a decision. Regards Bill Bill, I didn't know Slaters did a 2mm sheet until you mentioned it. You've obviously used the stuff - why do you think it more appropriate than the 4mm sheet (as you probably know, I used 7mm on the other structures). Looking at all the brickwork, I don't think the station will be "DASd". We'll see. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 ... Unless I subcontract it out to Bodgit! ... Jeff You've cracked it, my son. Apply this principle to the entire operation and all you will have to do is a little of what we call 'management'. No need to get your hands dirty. I mean, why did God create workers if not to do the actual work? Bodgit on weathering, (and union secretary), Jason on landscaping and consultancy, Larry Goddard on coaches, Tony Wright on engines, and me on finances... oh and *slight* photo enhancement. There will be a tiny, insignificant 'good faith' down payment on my services... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 (edited) Bill, I didn't know Slaters did a 2mm sheet until you mentioned it. You've obviously used the stuff - why do you think it more appropriate than the 4mm sheet (as you probably know, I used 7mm on the other structures). Looking at all the brickwork, I don't think the station will be "DASd". We'll see. Jeff Hi Jeff Perhaps the best way to describe it is by example so here goes. Basically it comes down to proportion: This is a stable/cart shed based on a building near Ripponden in West Yorkshire. I used 2mm scale dressed stone because on the prototype there were 31 courses in the wall. 2mm dressed stone gave me 29 courses for the same scale height. Not perfect but a lot closer to reality than 4mm stone which gave me 14 courses – well over scale even using the supposedly ‘correct’ sheet. An overall view of the building with everything in proportion including the stonework. All a matter of appearance based on the old adage ‘if it looks right, it is right!’ which is what it comes down to. There’s no problem using 7mm stone where you would expect to find heavy stonework. In fact I have a pile of Slaters 7mm Portland Stone sheets ready for the retaining walls/bridge buttresses on Slitheroe which is where you’d expect to find the sort of heavy construction needed to hold the ground behind. Buildings tend to be a lot ‘finer’ in appearance so in the majority of cases I find 2mm stonework more suitable. For a lot more examples you only have to have a look at some of Jason’s fine work on Bacup, including 7mm plain bond brick which he put to good use for the stonework on the mill by the station. Further examples of using 7mm brick sheets (and Das!) can be found courtesy of Dave Shakespeare (tetley) whose building quality speaks for itself. Hope this makes sense! Regards Bill Edited October 13, 2013 by Mythocentric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 The photo of KS station looks like the stone I have used in the below shot (Stone Courses Grey) will be the best match. The stone you used for the viaduct would be comically overscale for the station. I notice on Slaters website that they have changed the naming of their various stone effect sheets and although they have done it to be helpful, I'm now a bit confused. If you want, I'll pick up a few sheets for you at Peterborough next week and send them through (if I can see them, I'll know which to get - if you know what I mean). Scribing DAS works wonderfully for the cottage but the station is an integral part of the layout and has a lot of intricate detail that would be completely lost; Plastikard or printed card (like Scalescenes, etc) is the right tool for the job with the station, goods shed, etc. As you have probably guessed, my choice would be Plastikard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 With the drawings you have posted up above of the station, including a handy scale at the bottom, I am now tempted to have a go at the station building even though I have no use for it One of the lads in our club did a lot of the design work for York Modelmaking and is now going it alone; for the bargeboards and rather intricate windows on the waiting room, I would be pinging him (or other laser cutters) through the designs and getting them made up because they would be a nightmare to fashion yourself from plastikard and have them looking right. I wonder how grubby the stonework was back in the 50's and 60's? I am guessing that it would be a bit dirtier but nowhere near as grubby as the stone on the shot I posted above, as the air, etc., up there would be a thousand times cleaner than in a mill town. Still, the painting method I have used could still be employed to good effect, just with less black paint. (Tip: paint the sheets first as trying to paint in awkward areas such as in window recesses, etc., is a pain in the proverbial once the building is constructed, a lesson I learned the hard way). p.s. Full size building is a must; you will just have to think of a way to fit it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 Bill, Jason, many thanks for all the information and recommendations here. They will be suitably noted and filed. You've convinced me to use my preferred medium of plastikard (I love the stuff) and the type and scale of the stuff (I'll use Slaters, looks like 2mm - Stone Courses Grey looks nice). Can I reiterate - the buildings were being discussed as an adjunct to other topics. I've no intention of starting this task any time soon - too many other things to do (when I get my a**e in gear). However, all relevant advice is MUCH appreciated and a boon. Thanks very much. Jason - as I think I've mentioned previously, I'm fairly confident I can "give it a go", but the windows will be an area I'll need advice on, once construction is underway. And I'll build the whole structure. It would be criminal to mess with authenticity! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 I wasn't offering to build it for you, I just have this thing where I see nice looking buildings and fancy making them I have every confidence that you will make a cracking station building; you have already proved yourself as a competent and confident modeller. As mentioned, with those intricate windows, I'd be getting some made up (either laser cut or etched). With the plans you have and the scale, that would be relatively easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 I wasn't offering to build it for you, I just have this thing where I see nice looking buildings and fancy making them I have every confidence that you will make a cracking station building; you have already proved yourself as a competent and confident modeller. As mentioned, with those intricate windows, I'd be getting some made up (either laser cut or etched). With the plans you have and the scale, that would be relatively easy. Hee, hee - I wouldn't let you build it for me. By the time I've "finished" I want every bit of the layout to have been done by my own hand. I've actually got (from over a year ago) one of the Hornby Dent station buildings - very nice, but scratchbuilding has completely taken over! I do appreciate the advice, though. What scale brickwork was the stuff in post 8968? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branwell Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Jeff, Fascinating! I notice that the Station Master's office also housed the ticket office but the porters had a room to themselves. Why is it called a 'Waiting Shed', and what is 'Dust'? Of course when you have built it you will need to populate it with about 15 staff and 1 passenger. (They may not have had that many staff in the 60s and maybe 15 was across two shifts.) 'Dust' was, I think, where they kept the dustbins - my grandad had a butcher's shop in Kirkby Stephen and a slaughterhouse in Ravenstonedale and I seem to remember him telling me about calling at the station one night for a pee (he'd a few a pints in the Croglin Castle near Kirkby Stephen East) and getting the wrong door and ending up sprawled among the dustbins!! It's been a while since I last stuck my nose in here - very impressed with progress Jeff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 That is the 2mm stone, the 4mm is quite a lot larger. I am with you completely with building everything yourself, the level of satisfaction is much higher and you learn a lot along the way. One of the beauties of the forum is that there is an endless supply of advice, etc. to help you along the way and avoid the pitfalls that others have made. On another note, Bill's barn is lovely. Come on Bill, update your layout thread with your progress; with stuff of that standard it deserves to be presented to the World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hi Jeff Just a quick visit to add my comments. I'm glad to see that you are thinking of using plastic for the stonework as it will give a much better finish than the DAS, as you know I prefer the plastic myself and it is always the first choice for me. The stonework that Jason used was the Slaters 0419 2mm and 4mm stone courses, it's the same as I used on my bridge over the river and for a retaining wall against the hillside at the back of the station yard. I have also added some photos to show how mine are turning out. On the retaining wall I also thinned down a few individual stones and stuck them on to change the flat surface, a couple of them are visible. First up the bridge And the retaining wall (one of the raised stones is almost dead centre). I also added some strip behind the sheet at the top to give them some thickness. Anyway I think your station will look great once complete and like me I should think you are looking forward to the challenge as well as having a few doubts as to whether or not it all works out. Hectic times ahead for me again so in the meantime keep up the great work and plan ahead to avoid the mistakes. Hmm, I must listen to that advice myself sometime. All the best Jim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 'Dust' was, I think, where they kept the dustbins - my grandad had a butcher's shop in Kirkby Stephen and a slaughterhouse in Ravenstonedale and I seem to remember him telling me about calling at the station one night for a pee (he'd a few a pints in the Croglin Castle near Kirkby Stephen East) and getting the wrong door and ending up sprawled among the dustbins!! It's been a while since I last stuck my nose in here - very impressed with progress Jeff! Glad to see you've caught up with progress! A bit quiet over the last week or so, but things will get going again shortly... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hi Jim, I've always been happy to use Slaters sheets but, just for a short time (until I looked at the station photos!), I considered the DAS method. I checked up on the sheets: 0419 for 4mm and 0422 for 2mm, unless I'm mistaken. I will also use the 2mm for the stone fascia of the platforms... Looking forward to the challenge. Plenty of cock-ups probably loom ahead, but we learn by mistakes and a challenge is more fun! Anyway, that's for next year. I need to get the cottage finished off and put in its place on the Fell. Then I'll see what takes my fancy. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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