Scalecraft Roadrailer

[Mr_Tilt]

Hm, the dates of the prototypes appearing don't stack up with my experience of testing the things.

 

I suspect you may be right about PSF structurally testing an ex-C&O Roadrailer, perhaps to try and get some data about the required strengthening of the British built ones. I don't recall a side door in the one we tested, as shown in the pic of the C&O example in post #101 above, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one of course.

 

The other possibility was that we tested a specially built structural test specimen, which was quite common practice in the industry at the time. The very last thing the management wanted was an expensive prototype that had been damaged during testing, and that was quite likely considering the large stresses that we subjected them to. The structural test specimens tended to be built to minimum levels, without any non-stress bearing panels fitted etc. but with a Roadrailer that wouldn't have left many parts to leave off!

 

The Roadrailer flat prototype that we had later on, was the 'real thing' as it was painted up properly whereas the flat roofed one wasn't, it was 'body in white', as it was called back then. 

 

As well as the Bassett, which is possible as Airfix re-popped the Beagle 206 only a year or two ago and I have two of them, I'd need to model a Prestcold fridge and the never produced Prestcold dish washer. I was 'in charge' of testing the latter, and did it by suggesting that the Canteen Manageress might like to use six of them for a few months and report back. That got me free lunches for AGES! 

[rowehillmaster]

....  twin 15" wheels 

I had them for 8.25 x 16, a common trailer tyre of the time and as used on bedford and scammell trailers - which the hubs look like in both incarnations ? (would be interested if you had the actual tyre sizes ?)

 

Andy

Edited August 30, 2018 by rowehillmaster

[rowehillmaster]

I had them for 8.25 x 16, a common trailer tyre of the time and as used on bedford and scammell trailers - which the hubs look like in both incarnations ? (would be interested if you had the actual tyre sizes ?)

 

Andy

 

.....    but actually, (and I should of done it before posting the above ) ..... now I have my copy of MRJ 147 and I have studied the diagram drawing which has a pivot dimension from the rear to use as a base scale dimension, I have scaled off an enlarged photo and make the rim 15" across the bead seat of the rim, so I can see it is a 15" wheel.

 

Andy

[BrushType4]

.....    but actually, (and I should of done it before posting the above ) ..... now I have my copy of MRJ 147 and I have studied the diagram drawing which has a pivot dimension from the rear to use as a base scale dimension, I have scaled off an enlarged photo and make the rim 15" across the bead seat of the rim, so I can see it is a 15" wheel.

 

Andy

Don’t be fooled by scaling off drawings. They are not always accurate and are often interpretation. If 16’ wheels where the standard of the day, I’d personally go with them instead of a non standard size.

[Porcy Mane]

Tyre sizes given in the Technical Data are 10" x 15".

[rowehillmaster]

Tyre sizes given in the Technical Data are 10" x 15".

.... and you can still buy them  - 10.00x15 Low platform Trailer Tyre 14ply DS6335  Maximum Weight Capacity 5,050 lbs. per tire @ 100 psi. US $239.95 !

[rowehillmaster]

.... I have made a start -:

 

 

 

 

I will start a new thread once I have done a bit more so you can advise on getting it looking right 

[Mr_Tilt]

Blimey, it looks much more than 'a start'! 

[BrushType4]

Keep going: I’ll buy 7mm versions.

[rowehillmaster]

Hm, the dates of the prototypes appearing don't stack up with my experience of testing the things.

 

I suspect you may be right about PSF structurally testing an ex-C&O Roadrailer, perhaps to try and get some data about the required strengthening of the British built ones. I don't recall a side door in the one we tested, as shown in the pic of the C&O example in post #101 above, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one of course.

 

 

... my latest US reference material states in the caption to a photo a photo of a C&O Railvan " this unit appears to be an early model as it does not have the side doors"  - more likely they had one of those to test ?

[BernardTPM]

 Silver paint was from the same tin I brought 55 years ago, some reason gold and silver never seems to go off, one built 50 years ago faded a bit

 

 

Probably all the lead in the paint!

 

 

Could quite well be, ive kept all my paints in an old cigar box for over 50 years, the old humbrel paints seem to last for ever, the paint pigment settles on the bottom and a lovely smelling thinner on top, some paints like silver or gun metal one just has to dip a screwdriver in and use whats on that.

 

Humbrol enamels did not have lead in them and as such were sold as 'non-toxic' and suitable for use in nurseries (Non-toxic when dried, of course - not an excuse for swigging it straight from ther tin!), but the formulation of the old paints does seem better than the stuff sold as Humbrol now.

[rowehillmaster]

 - I have received some material from a very nice man (Thomas W. Dixon Jr.Chief Historian at the C&O Historical Society http://cohs.org/) and it includes a photo showing an American Roadrailer being craned onto a cargo ship, with one already loaded, captioned "In March 1958, C&O shipped their prototype Railvans to England in the hope of getting them into international service" - they are not the square topped vans we see in most of the US pictures, they have a rounded top crown, like a period commercial trailer might have, there are also side ladders - else where in the text these two are mentioned as having been presented to the press in 1955.

[Porcy Mane]

- I have received some material from a very nice man (Thomas W. Dixon Jr.Chief Historian at the C&O Historical Society http://cohs.org/) and it includes a photo showing an American Roadrailer being craned onto a cargo ship, with one already loaded, captioned "In March 1958, C&O shipped their prototype Railvans to England in the hope of getting them into international service" - they are not the square topped vans we see in most of the US pictures, they have a rounded top crown, like a period commercial trailer might have, there are also side ladders - else where in the text these two are mentioned as having been presented to the press in 1955.

 

Strange (being American) the the US C&O Roadrailers seem to be far less substantial in construction than their British offspring.

 

The American pic was released for publication in 1964 but the info that accompanies the negative indicates it was taken in 1961.

 

 

This is half of the rear rocker from the prototype British Roadrailer.

 

 

Interesting that if the containers being embarked on to a ship that was UK bound, the mods for the British loading gauge may have been carried out in America.

 

Questions, Questions?

 

P

[rowehillmaster]

 

Interesting that if the containers being embarked on to a ship that was UK bound, the mods for the British loading gauge may have been carried out in America.

 

Questions, Questions?

 

 

 

No - it is still a flat roof but with rounded corners, only about 4-6 inches radius, not like any other photos I have seen - how I see it the two 1955 prototypes were shipped to England in 1958, these had side ladders and roof walkways according to the text, and the vertical corners look like they are rounded too - it says in the text in 1959 the Railvan body itself was redesigned with integral side posts and stronger, lighter steel structural members, in 1959 three of the redesigned Railvans were built - that ties in with the pictures and dates - there are identical strengtheners on both the US and UK versions.

[rowehillmaster]

..... here is one of the ones that came to the UK in 1958 - significantly different construction obvious even in this screenshot from the COHS archive shop.

 

[rowehillmaster]

 

CandO-Orig-Rrailer151.jpg

 

This is half of the rear rocker from the prototype British Roadrailer.

 

 

 

 

.... this picture is very helpful for me, I am starting to now understand how the pivot worked, just need to see where the airmotor sat now, as it had to be fixed relative to the entire pivoting carriage with the rail wheels and road wheels on independent BF Goodrich 'torsilastic' suspension units. 

[Porcy Mane]

.... this picture is very helpful for me, I am starting to now understand how the pivot worked, just need to see where the airmotor sat now, as it had to be fixed relative to the entire pivoting carriage with the rail wheels and road wheels on independent BF Goodrich 'torsilastic' suspension units. 

 

Remind me next week. (I'm just off to play trains for the weekend)

 

I think I've some info on the Rotax Screw. From memory the Scalecraft R/R had a representation of this in approximately the correct position.

 

P

[cctransuk]

 - I have received some material from a very nice man (Thomas W. Dixon Jr.Chief Historian at the C&O Historical Society http://cohs.org/) and it includes a photo showing an American Roadrailer being craned onto a cargo ship, with one already loaded, captioned "In March 1958, C&O shipped their prototype Railvans to England in the hope of getting them into international service" - they are not the square topped vans we see in most of the US pictures, they have a rounded top crown, like a period commercial trailer might have, there are also side ladders - else where in the text these two are mentioned as having been presented to the press in 1955.

 

Perhaps these are the two 'prototype Roadrailers with flat rooves' that Mr_Tilt remembers?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[rowehillmaster]

...... I have made some test 3D prints, shown in my other thread (PSL Roadrailer project - detail CAD for resin cast or 3D print) and can manage the detail I think to get an acceptable result, but what do folks actually want ? - I could do a remake of the exact kit, with a little more detail / accuracy would that be of use ? - I will still make a full CAD model but that will then need dumbing down and altering to make into a kit, that can be assembled and have some strength - what improvements would people like to see - multiple model scales / gauges will be easy as will enabling a proper bushed rail axle - what style / modifications does the coupler need ?

 

Andy

[rowehillmaster]

... here they are in white primer -:

 

[rowehillmaster]

... a little help please - :

 

what type of vacuum connector is this ?

 

 

 

 

 

..... it is bigger than any I recognise ?

 

thanks Andy

[Mr_Tilt]

Isn't that the rail brake twistlock connector?

[ColinK]

...... I have made some test 3D prints, shown in my other thread (PSL Roadrailer project - detail CAD for resin cast or 3D print) and can manage the detail I think to get an acceptable result, but what do folks actually want ? - I could do a remake of the exact kit, with a little more detail / accuracy would that be of use ? - I will still make a full CAD model but that will then need dumbing down and altering to make into a kit, that can be assembled and have some strength - what improvements would people like to see - multiple model scales / gauges will be easy as will enabling a proper bushed rail axle - what style / modifications does the coupler need ?

 

Andy

I prefer the full CAD model. I would be happy if the wheels can be fixed in either the road or rail position, no need to have them movable.

[rowehillmaster]

I prefer the full CAD model. I would be happy if the wheels can be fixed in either the road or rail position, no need to have them movable.

 

 

.... I had arrived at that conclusion as to tuck the wheels up properly is not practical on a scaled model as the sides would have to be overly thin, a kit of parts for either or was my idea - along with the legs retracted and folded or deployed. 

[rowehillmaster]

... a little help please - :

 

what type of vacuum connector is this ?

 

 

 

 

 

..... it is bigger than any I recognise ?

 

thanks Andy

 

 

.... I have come to the conclusion that we are seeing two different standards of VAC pipe stowage on the old photos, stowed pointing down, and hooked up - both are parked on a receptacle (dolly) thus making it appear bigger - I have finished the model this morning with it parked pointing down -: