West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[deltic17]

The movement on the signal is superb - I especially like how it 'bounces' back to Danger (just like the real thing to quote a phrase!)

[Dmudriver]

The movement on the signal is superb - I especially like how it 'bounces' back to Danger (just like the real thing to quote a phrase!)

 

Thanks, deltic17.  The signal movement is operated by a G F Controls operating unit: the bounce can be turned on or off.  All the signals, including the ground discs, are controlled this way, though the bounce isn't as obvious on the discs!

 

Rod

[leopardml2341]

Hello Rod,

 

Is the signalling/track layout fully 'interlocked' ?

 

Interested in respect of the positioning of points 24a Normal when 21a Reversed (at departure of EE type 3 from Siding 2).

 

Rgds,

 

Andy

[Dmudriver]

Hello Rod,

 

Is the signalling/track layout fully 'interlocked' ?

 

Interested in respect of the positioning of points 24a Normal when 21a Reversed (at departure of EE type 3 from Siding 2).

 

Rgds,

 

Andy

Hi Andy.

 

The signalling isn't yet interlocked with the points.  Note the word "yet"!  It's something I want to do eventually but I've not really got my head round it yet!  I did it on the Club's exhibition layout with a diode matrix, which was easy as all the points and signals were operated by Peco solenoid motors.  This might be more difficult as I'm using Tortoises for the points and servos for the signals.

 

Interesting that you spotted the lie of points 24a normal when 21a reversed.  I noticed this and raised the question in post 302 in this thread (link to the page is : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54751-west-kirby-town-platform-progress/page-13)  : flying signalman replied in post 304.  Basically it's impossible to eliminate every conflicting move.  The working of the crossovers made me look again a few times at first (you'd expect 21a and 24a to work together), but when operating it's quite logical.

 

Rod

 

Edit: add link to page 13

Edited May 19, 2014 by Dmudriver

[leopardml2341]

Hi Andy.

 

The signalling isn't yet interlocked with the points.  Note the word "yet"!  It's something I want to do eventually but I've not really got my head round it yet!  I did it on the Club's exhibition layout with a diode matrix, which was easy as all the points and signals were operated by Peco solenoid motors.  This might be more difficult as I'm using Tortoises for the points and servos for the signals.

 

Interesting that you spotted the lie of points 24a normal when 21a reversed.  I noticed this and raised the question in post 302 in this thread (link to the page is : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54751-west-kirby-town-platform-progress/page-13)  : flying signalman replied in post 304.  Basically it's impossible to eliminate every conflicting move.  The working of the crossovers made me look again a few times at first (you'd expect 21a and 24a to work together), but when operating it's quite logical.

 

Rod

 

Edit: add link to page 13

Methinks I must read from the beginning........

[Dmudriver]

HI all.

 

Things are progressing - maybe not in the order planned ....... but read on!

 

I've painted the new ballast - using thinned down sleeper grime which has matched in pretty well with the existing.  I've also given the platform surface a brushed-on coat of paint, but it's not turned out how I hoped, so I'm not putting any pictures of it on here yet.  I used thinned down GWR Light Stone and, whilst the colour isn't too bad, the finish is patchy.  So I'll either use a pad next time or I'll spray it on: it's likely it will be the latter but I'll see when time and weather permits.

 

The picket fencing has arrived from Parkside Dundas but I won't fit it until the platform surface is finished.

 

What I have been doing however is as a result of leopardml2341's recent post.  (Thanks, Andy!!)  I've started on the interlocking of the signals with the points.  First of all, I drew up what, if I remember correctly, is called a "truth table".  This was to work out the lie of the points which are needed to clear any particular signal.  It's shown below, but I'll repeat the pic of the signalling diagram first so it will make more sense if anyone is inclined to follow it in detail!!

 

 

This is followed by the "truth table":

 

 

So far, so good!!  I then started playing around with wiring diagrams until I remembered there was something a bit unusual (to me, at any rate) about the operation of the GF Controls operating units.  I checked the instructions and yes, there was!  The signals are held at danger by a small current and are cleared by opening the circuit.   Now this is completely contrary to anything I have worked on before (I actually did an electronics course at college soon after I retired) but most of what I can remember was making circuits closed to operate lamps, motors, whatever.  I couldn't get my head round it so I contacted GF Controls and Geoff has been an absolute star!!  He's explained the principle to me and drawn 3 diagrams of increasing complexity as I put different scenarios to him.

 

So I've now started drawing up a wiring diagram and a copy of part of it is below (it's only part as the whole is over 1 Mb in size):

 

 

The red lines are the + feed from the power source to the servo and the blue the - from the servo back to the power source.  The servos are shown at the bottom of the page as an "S" in a circle. (Apologies for the blurred scanning)  Whether this is the correct symbol for a servo, I'm not sure, but I couldn't find what it should be!  But at least it means something to me!   The blue lines at the point microswitches (down the left of the page) actually continue to the right hand edge of the page and join the the blue line at the bottom of the page back to the power source.  The notifications "NO" and "RO" mean "normal - open" and reversed - open", referring to the microswitches on the Tortoise motors. 

 

I've not done any more tonight as, to put it bluntly, "it's doing my 'ead in"!!!!   Seriously, though, it just needs concentration.  This is not the first one I've done, I've scrapped half a dozen others already!!

 

Once I've finished this (and got it checked by someone else if I can) the next job will be to make up a strip board to match the diagram.  I'm actually looking forward to doing that, but again it will need a lot of concentration to get it right, as well as continual checking.  There are just so many opportunities to get something wrong.

 

So, I will come back with progress as I make it.  If anyone sees anything I've done wrong, please let me know.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS   Thanks for the kind comments about the videos.   I'll do some more soon when I've made more progress on the layout.  The challenge is to show something different each time, but I'll think of something!!  Any ideas would be welcomed, though!

 

 

 

EDIT:  I've found an error already!!!   Signal 34 does not need point 26 to be normal, otherwise a move from the Down line into platform 1 would not be possible at the same time as a move from the Up line into platform 2 or siding 2 (unless, of course, the driver SPADed!!)

Edited May 28, 2014 by Dmudriver

[Jon Fitness]

Good luck with the interlocking Rod. It's something I (very briefly) considered with our layout but my feeble mind just couldn't even get started on it!

The nearest I got to it was persuading a rack of various microswitches on the points to decide whether to show 1,2,3 or S in a route indicator. Quite an achievement by my standards  .

Jon F.

[bobster]

Quite a task with the Interlocking Rod - I was ok until I got to the first Graph, and then you lost me  - Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers, Bob.

[Dmudriver]

Just a short addition to the edit last night.  Having thought about it, point 22 should be interlocked with crossover 26 so that the conflicting route referred to above cannot occur.  So I've bought a couple of microswitches today to fit one of them onto the Tortoise operating point 22 so that crossover 26 can be reversed only when point 22 is reversed.  The plan is to fit a switch on to the Tortoise 22 to interrupt the supply to Tortoise 26 and only connect it when 22 is reversed.

 

That's the plan, anyway!!  I'll have to remember the correct sequence when operating, but that's part of the fun of operating, isn't it?

 

 

Rod

[bobster]

Just a short addition to the edit last night.  Having thought about it, point 22 should be interlocked with crossover 26 so that the conflicting route referred to above cannot occur.  So I've bought a couple of microswitches today to fit one of them onto the Tortoise operating point 22 so that crossover 26 can be reversed only when point 22 is reversed.  The plan is to fit a switch on to the Tortoise 22 to interrupt the supply to Tortoise 26 and only connect it when 22 is reversed.

 

That's the plan, anyway!!  I'll have to remember the correct sequence when operating, but that's part of the fun of operating, isn't it?

 

 

Rod

 

Where's the  "You have completely lost me now"  button  

 

Cheers, Bob.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Bob.

 

Sorry about that!!   I do get a bit enthusiastic!!  It does go to show, though, just how many different aspects there are to railway modelling.   My main interest is, obviously, operations:  my layout is conspicuously lacking scenery so far; I don't count rivets on my locos or rolling stock - as long as they look right from normal viewing distance, I'm happy.  Yet you look elsewhere on RMweb and there's all sorts of specialities.  

 

One thread I really enjoy following is this one:  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58427-greenfield-standedge-route/   The way coachman builds his scenery - including the speed of it - is, to me, just unbelievable.  And I could quote numerous others.

 

I'll try and make things a bit more easy to follow in future.  I'm just off to Maplins for strip boards, diodes, etc to build the wiring board!!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod.

[bobster]

Hi Rod

 

They say that a 12yr old can understand these things, trouble is, there's never a 12yr old around when you need one  - Joking aside, I understand what you are doing (I Think) and it is great to see the railway run correctly - I've never been a rivet  counter, and like you, I like to see things look right, and your layout and stock does just that, even without the scenery.

 

Always looking forward to new updates.

 

Cheers, Bob.

Edited June 2, 2014 by bobster

[two tone green]

Hi Rod,

 

Thinking back to your platform construction and the gaps between the platform edging and the platform surface I spotted this at the O gauge Summer show on the JLTRT stand and thought I would give it a go. 
 

http://www.justliketherealthing.co.uk/deluxe-materials-perfect-plastic-putty-40ml-p-273.html?cPath=45

 

It come with a screw on nozzle which is tapered and closed. I drill the closed end out to 1 mm and put the nozzle on the tube and gave it a squeeze. It dispenses a fine line into what ever you are applying it too and fills the gaps nicely between the platform edging and surface. Its easy to apply, easy to work and with a wipe with a damp tissue or cloth easily clean up to avoid sanding etc.

 

The only thing I have not tried is painting but it does say it takes paint easily. I only had about 15 minutes to play yesterday with it but managed to fill the gap along two metres of platform and clean it up. Very impressed.

 

Its the way it can be applied that makes this better than straight forward filler as it is squeezed in rather than having to be forced, work in which usually results in it being spread over a larger area than what actually needs filling.

 

Well worth a go.

[pwr]

Hi Bob.

 

Sorry about that!!   I do get a bit enthusiastic!!  It does go to show, though, just how many different aspects there are to railway modelling.   My main interest is, obviously, operations:  my layout is conspicuously lacking scenery so far; I don't count rivets on my locos or rolling stock - as long as they look right from normal viewing distance, I'm happy.  Yet you look elsewhere on RMweb and there's all sorts of specialities.  

 

One thread I really enjoy following is this one:  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58427-greenfield-standedge-route/   The way coachman builds his scenery - including the speed of it - is, to me, just unbelievable.  And I could quote numerous others.

 

I'll try and make things a bit more easy to follow in future.  I'm just off to Maplins for strip boards, diodes, etc to build the wiring board!!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod.

That's what I love about this hobby - the many aspects that we choose to model and the many different approaches to what we do.

 

Paul R

[81A Oldoak]

Hi Rod,

 

Thinking back to your platform construction and the gaps between the platform edging and the platform surface I spotted this at the O gauge Summer show on the JLTRT stand and thought I would give it a go. 

 

http://www.justliketherealthing.co.uk/deluxe-materials-perfect-plastic-putty-40ml-p-273.html?cPath=45

 

It come with a screw on nozzle which is tapered and closed. I drill the closed end out to 1 mm and put the nozzle on the tube and gave it a squeeze. It dispenses a fine line into what ever you are applying it too and fills the gaps nicely between the platform edging and surface. Its easy to apply, easy to work and with a wipe with a damp tissue or cloth easily clean up to avoid sanding etc.

 

The only thing I have not tried is painting but it does say it takes paint easily. I only had about 15 minutes to play yesterday with it but managed to fill the gap along two metres of platform and clean it up. Very impressed.

 

Its the way it can be applied that makes this better than straight forward filler as it is squeezed in rather than having to be forced, work in which usually results in it being spread over a larger area than what actually needs filling.

 

Well worth a go.

The link to Greenfield-Standege is very useful and is now on my followed list. The prototype photos will be very helpful when the time soon comes for me to erect the retaining walls on Cwm Bach. Some of the reteining walls look as though they could be the prototype inspiration for Slater's 7mm scale dressed stone wallling.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

There's not been much progress on the actual layout - other than a fair bit of shunting around!!  But that's playing rather than constructing - which is why we construct in the first place, isn't it?

 

I've been devoting my time to the signal interlocking: this is where I'm up to so far.  I suppose it could be known as the "brains" of the interlocking!!  It's the various circuits that are needed for each signal to operate.  Basically, wires attach to the top pins on the left hand side (down to that marked "SP") from the signal operating units and then wires from the microswitches on the Tortoise motors to the pins below that:

 

 

It took me all of yesterday and a couple of hours on other days to complete it - it did improve my soldering technique!.  It still needs LEDs added to help with the testing and it then needs fitting to the baseboard, wiring up and final testing.

 

I won't go into any more detail (do I hear sighs of relief?) but I'll be back soon with more progress.

 

On another topic, I've heard from the friend who's doing the station buildings that he's started on them so hopefully there'll be more to report on that front in the not-too-distant future.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

 

[bobster]

Nice neat work there Rod - Just when I found a 12 yr old to explain this to me, you decide not to go into more detail   Oh well, back to school for him.

 

Cheers, Bob.

[pwr]

Rod

 

I guess as you use DCC this could also be possible electronically with a lap top? But I guess you would need some sort of accessory decoder. Not being into DCC I can't really comment.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

I guess as you use DCC this could also be possible electronically with a lap top? But I guess you would need some sort of accessory decoder. Not being into DCC I can't really comment.

 

Paul R

Hi Paul.

 

Yes, I think could have done - in fact, 2 of the other layouts I operate on (Apethorne Junction" and "Oldham King Street Parcels") have a system whereby you push a button on the keypad on a laptop and the route is set.  The system on "Apethorne"  sets some of the colour light signals, too.  However, I wanted a representation of mechanical signalling as I wanted to go through the mental process of setting routes as well as driving the trains and interlocking is an integral part of that.  Plus I enjoy the challenge of working out the circuits and then building the board.   Am I crackers, or what?

 

As we've said before, it all comes down to your own interest in modelling a railway.  Pushing buttons would work but it's not for me on this layout.

 

Rod

[pwr]

Hi Paul.

 

Yes, I think could have done - in fact, 2 of the other layouts I operate on (Apethorne Junction" and "Oldham King Street Parcels") have a system whereby you push a button on the keypad on a laptop and the route is set.  The system on "Apethorne"  sets some of the colour light signals, too.  However, I wanted a representation of mechanical signalling as I wanted to go through the mental process of setting routes as well as driving the trains and interlocking is an integral part of that.  Plus I enjoy the challenge of working out the circuits and then building the board.   Am I crackers, or what?

 

As we've said before, it all comes down to your own interest in modelling a railway.  Pushing buttons would work but it's not for me on this layout.

 

Rod

 

Yes I can see why this would appeal - very much like the real signalman! 

 

Personally I am still not keen on DCC but the sound element certainly puts you in the drivers seat.

 

Paul R

[ZiderHead]

Nice job - theres something rather neat about the way the interlocking can be represented by the truth table, by the mechanical locks in the lever frame or by the diodes in your circuit.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Work is progressing, but only on the signal interlocking: nothing more has happened on the platform, so I've altered the thread title!!

 

I'd run into a slight problem in that I hadn't realised that 2 sets of 2 signal switches operate one servo each - levers/switches 37 and 38 operate the main arm but different lights on the theatre indicator; levers/switches 42 and 43 operate the subsidiary arm and lights as before.

 

After numerous emails and a phone conversation with Geoff of GF Controls (thanks, Geoff), we've sorted out a system.  Now I've got to put it into operation!!!  I won't go into detail as I'm finding it hard to follow at the moment, so what an explanation would read like, I dread to think!!

 

One advantage of this exercise (apart from getting signals interlocked with points) is that it's giving my retired grey matter a really good workout!!!!!   Well, this and addictive games like "Jelly Splash" and "Candy Crush" on my iPhone!!!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[pwr]

Rod

 

I was at Manchester Piccadilly yesterday and there was a blue 40 and a 50 in tandem waiting in platform 13. Now I want the Heljan 40! Drool drool! A 40 would look good on your parcels rake I have to say.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

I was at Manchester Piccadilly yesterday and there was a blue 40 and a 50 in tandem waiting in platform 13. Now I want the Heljan 40! Drool drool! A 40 would look good on your parcels rake I have to say.

 

Paul R

What were they doing there, Paul?  I saw the 40 at Carnforth last Friday on the sold-out positioning move**.  It's a magnificent beast!  I must admit to being slightly tempted with the Heljan one but, being realistic, it's too big for my layout.   Well, that's what I tell myself!!

 

Rod

 

**  That was a brainwave somebody had!!  Carnforth was really busy with photographers but more so, travellers.

[pwr]

Rod

 

I don't really know what they were doing there but as they were light engine it is conceivable they were on the way to Bury East Lancs?

 

Looked magnificent though

 

Paul R