Street Running in the USA or Canada

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

Commonly known as "Interurbans". A good source of film footage of some of them is some of the old Harold Lloyd silent comedys.

I was just thinking of mentioning American Interurban lines but you beat me to it - personally I would make a distinction between Street Cars (more like our UK city-centre trams) and Interurban lines, some of which had quite extensive networks and heavier freight haulage, but might also include portions of street running too, Keith.

[Rich_F]

Here is the aforementioned 'Minnesota Commercial Railroad' street running vid I was hinting at. 

 

 

[nsl714]

On 07/07/2023 at 17:20, F-UnitMad said:

Commonly known as "Interurbans". A good source of film footage of some of them is some of the old Harold Lloyd silent comedys.

 

The interurban network in the US is another topic well worth studying. They varied in substance from overgrown streetcars to heavily engineered electric railroads. Most sprung up between the 1890's and 1910's, and were long gone by the 1930's, though a few (such as the Pacific Electric above) hung around into the postwar era. A particular favorite study of mine is the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railway (North Shore Line for short). That railroad had about everything: fast multiple unit electric passenger trains, heavy freight operations, local streetcars, even a pair of streamlined electric trains. Trains would operate from downtown Chicago over the 'L', sprint north to Milwaukee, and operate over a few miles of street trackage to reach downtown. Here's another archive video (with street running smattered in to keep it topical!)

 

 

[PhilJ W]

Not street running but the most appalling track, even laid across a fallen tree trunk (2:00).

 

[Ben B]

15 hours ago, nsl714 said:

 

The interurban network in the US is another topic well worth studying. They varied in substance from overgrown streetcars to heavily engineered electric railroads. Most sprung up between the 1890's and 1910's, and were long gone by the 1930's, though a few (such as the Pacific Electric above) hung around into the postwar era. A particular favorite study of mine is the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railway (North Shore Line for short). That railroad had about everything: fast multiple unit electric passenger trains, heavy freight operations, local streetcars, even a pair of streamlined electric trains. Trains would operate from downtown Chicago over the 'L', sprint north to Milwaukee, and operate over a few miles of street trackage to reach downtown. Here's another archive video (with street running smattered in to keep it topical!)

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing- what a fascinating line. Love the streamline set in particular!

[melmerby]

What a variety of infrastructure.

Gauntleted lines, train set curves, numerous different overhead line types including gantries anchored to pylons, third rail, street running, freight with Steeple Cabs, the Streamliners.

 

Another thing noticeable was the sheer amount of wires on poles everywhere, although the US seems to be particular bad for that, even these days.

[Rich_F]

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

Another thing noticeable was the sheer amount of wires on poles everywhere, although the US seems to be particular bad for that, even these days.

 

I have a naturalised American relative (British born). She used to work in infrastructure/engineering.

 

Apparently in the UK we are more inclined to bury our cables in urban areas. 

 

The choice of American engineers where she worked was to string everything between poles; then wonder why everything goes black when there's a storm/hurricane or a truck brings them down 🤣

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Weeny Works said:

The choice of American engineers where she worked was to string everything between poles; then wonder why everything goes black when there's a storm/hurricane or a truck brings them down 🤣

 

It's like here at Paradise on the Amtrak line to Harrisburg, where the electrified railway seems to have it's distribution feeds on the top poles for the railway electrification itself.

[298]

Whilst on the Interurbans theme, last week I was sent a video of Brill Master Unit 21 running on Pine St in Yakima WA, prior to the Electric Railroaders Association visit last weekend. This car has been out of service for a long time, certainly before I first went to Yakima in 2002.

 

[pH]

11 hours ago, Weeny Works said:

 

I have a naturalised American relative (British born). She used to work in infrastructure/engineering.

 

Apparently in the UK we are more inclined to bury our cables in urban areas. 

 

The choice of American engineers where she worked was to string everything between poles; then wonder why everything goes black when there's a storm/hurricane or a truck brings them down 🤣

Pros and cons for both systems.

 

Initial installation, especially in a fast-growing urban area, is quicker and cheaper with overhead.

 

Long runs of wiring, serving few and/or widely-spaced customers are, again, cheaper and more quickly built with overhead. 
 

Breaks, when they happen, are more easily traced and more quickly repaired with overhead. (This can matter more in areas, like the west side of North America, which are prone to earthquakes.)

 

Overhead is uglier than underground.

 

As you say, underground is more robust with respect to weather and vehicle accidents.

 

Once built, converting an overhead system to underground is expensive, for little change in function. It’s usually only done for aesthetic reasons e.g. in limited tourist areas in towns.

 

Bonus point - squirrels can (and do) use overhead lines as pathways, though usually phone and cable lines.

Edited July 12, 2023 by pH

[PhilJ W]

On 11/07/2023 at 16:23, Weeny Works said:

 

I have a naturalised American relative (British born). She used to work in infrastructure/engineering.

 

Apparently in the UK we are more inclined to bury our cables in urban areas. 

 

The choice of American engineers where she worked was to string everything between poles; then wonder why everything goes black when there's a storm/hurricane or a truck brings them down 🤣

Where my friend lives in South Benfleet most of the wires supplying phone and electric are overhead rather than being buried. This has been so since the houses were built seventy years ago. Putting the cables underground can cause problems. The ancient city of Mdina in Malta is a case in point, nearly every building is over 500 years old (its a world heritage site) so they decided to remove all the overhead cables and wires festooned above the streets. The snag was that wherever they dug down into the streets there was archaeology that had to be excavated and recorded.

Edited July 17, 2023 by PhilJ W

[Rich_F]

Another vid I've stumbled upon. This one from 2018-2021 time period. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Weeny Works

[Chris116]

They need to have painted lines on the road to show where the parked cars are out of the way like they have in many parts of the Croydon Tramlink.

[Ben B]

7 hours ago, Chris116 said:

They need to have painted lines on the road to show where the parked cars are out of the way like they have in many parts of the Croydon Tramlink.

 

True, but that never have seems to have stopped people parking in those sections over here, at Weymouth Harbour for example, as a quick google image search would demonstrate :)

[mullie]

21 minutes ago, Ben B said:

 

True, but that never have seems to have stopped people parking in those sections over here, at Weymouth Harbour for example, as a quick google image search would demonstrate :)

As you probably know,  the rails are now gone and area gentrified.  Even the fish market is now a restaurant. 

 

Walked along their yesterday morning. We live on Portland. 

[Ben B]

6 hours ago, mullie said:

As you probably know,  the rails are now gone and area gentrified.  Even the fish market is now a restaurant. 

 

Walked along their yesterday morning. We live on Portland. 

 

I think it's a shame they were lifted. Enough other places manage to cope with rails in the road, if active or preserved, just seemed like a waste not to find a way to preserve the tramway, even if it was never going to be used again.

[Wendell1976]

On 04/07/2023 at 02:38, melmerby said:

In many places the US doesn't seem to have quite got the gist of "Trams" as Europeans would call them.

They seem to be an odd  mixture of heavy rail and tram practices. With tram-like vehicles and train like trackwork.

 

The LA Metro "A Line" video is a good example.

Where we would concrete the track into the road, in many places it looks like sleepered (tie) track covered over.

It's also curbed off from the street.

 

The other thing I would comment on about the A Line was too many intersections, with traffic lights every few yards.

It hardly allows the tram to get any speed up. (I notice the traffic lights say "Train")

 

Most of the route for the Metro A Line(formerly Blue Line) between Downtown Los Angeles and suburban Long Beach, California is on a former Pacific Electric line. However, the street running trackage in the City of Los Angeles(on Washington Boulevard and Flower Street) is a newer route. The trains on this route have traffic signal priority.

 

On 07/07/2023 at 14:10, nsl714 said:

 

To be fair, the US used to have a quite sprawling network of streetcars (the American equivalent of a tram). The construction was as you would expect, rails laid and paved over in the street where the cars could commingle with other traffic. Most cities gave them up between the 1930's and 1950's and replaced them with buses, as the systems aged out and reached the economic point where they either needed rebuilding or replacement.

 

An interesting comparison to the LA Metro videos is this one from the last days of the Pacific Electric "Red Cars" in the LA area. The route followed to Long Beach is much the same as the "A Line" today. As on the Metro, a portion of the route at either end plies the streets of the cities.

 

 

 

Nice video clip of the Pacific Electric Railway from Downtown Los Angeles to Long Beach via my hometown of Compton, California.

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA

[Wendell1976]

On 10/07/2023 at 08:50, nsl714 said:

 

The interurban network in the US is another topic well worth studying. They varied in substance from overgrown streetcars to heavily engineered electric railroads. Most sprung up between the 1890's and 1910's, and were long gone by the 1930's, though a few (such as the Pacific Electric above) hung around into the postwar era. A particular favorite study of mine is the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railway (North Shore Line for short). That railroad had about everything: fast multiple unit electric passenger trains, heavy freight operations, local streetcars, even a pair of streamlined electric trains. Trains would operate from downtown Chicago over the 'L', sprint north to Milwaukee, and operate over a few miles of street trackage to reach downtown. Here's another archive video (with street running smattered in to keep it topical!)

 

 

 

Nice video clip of the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railroad. Much of the former North Shore Line route is now the Green Bay Trail. Metra's Union Pacific North Line runs between Downtown Chicago and Kenosha, Wisconsin today for commuter train service. I have ridden on this Metra line many times when I was in active duty with the United States Navy at Great Lakes Naval Training Center.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_North_Shore_and_Milwaukee_Railroad

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_North_Line

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA

[298]

An atmospheric image from last weekend of a moonlight run in Yakima with 298 and a Brill Master Unit on Pine St. 

 

[Wendell1976]

Here's a new picture of a CSX Transportation train in Elizabeth, Pennsylvania. The train is lead by a Union Pacific Railroad locomotive and is traversing South First Avenue. Elizabeth is a suburb of Pittsburgh.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/839509/

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA

[Wendell1976]

Here's a picture of the DC Streetcar in Washington, DC. The streetcar is running down H Street Northeast(an alphabet street) at the intersection of Third Street Northeast. The DC Streetcar is owned by the District of Columbia Department of Transportation(DDOT) and is not part of the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority(WMATA).

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/568836/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Streetcar

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA 

[Wendell1976]

Here's a new picture of a Norfolk Southern Railway train in West Brownsville, Pennsylvania. The train is moving down Main Street. West Brownsville is a suburb of Pittsburgh.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/842808/

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA 

[melmerby]

A candidate for "Just like a model"

[Keith Addenbrooke]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

A candidate for "Just like a model"

 

I hadn’t looked at the picture in that way, but now you mention it - definitely.

 

What stood out for me when I first looked at the photo was the empty highway on the left just behind the houses, suggesting more room was available (that street does look very narrow).

 

I’m guessing that historically the town may have built up around and along the railroad track, which may have been the first thing there.  Just a thought, Keith.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

I hadn’t looked at the picture in that way, but now you mention it - definitely.

 

What stood out for me when I first looked at the photo was the empty highway on the left just behind the houses, suggesting more room was available (that street does look very narrow).

 

I’m guessing that historically the town may have built up around and along the railroad track, which may have been the first thing there.  Just a thought, Keith.

The empty road to the left is the link road to the high level highway over the bridge.

West Brownsville is stuck with the railroad down the street and no easy way around:

 

Pin where photo is likely taken from using a drone (The Orthodox church is just to the right) Looking NE

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by melmerby