Dorchester South

[bike2steam]

Good one Frank, it was just the distance between the two that's against it - but there again with 'modeller's license', and a bit of compression .

[Joseph_Pestell]

Another, possible, location, is / was Wilton North (WReg.) & Wilton South (SReg.). A more rural setting with some interesting engine workings (Loco changeovers + goods yard at Wilton South).

The research needed may prove extensive though, as both stations are now brick dust. North closed in 1955, South in 1966.

 

Wilton South is certainly well-documented. Don't know so much about North but I am sure there would be some info.

 

Going back to the St Budeaux suggestions, the old Plymouth North Road was not that big a station either. But I can't remember offhand (the book is upstairs, I'm just being lazy!) which year it was rebuilt. No obvious scenic break at the west end though.

[bike2steam]

Wilton North was where the Kingsway Industrial Estate is now between the sites of the two stations, although when the stations were in their heyday the Kingsway home (plus large gardens) for women with 'mental defectives' stood on the site between the stations.

Edited April 26, 2012 by bike2steam

[Innerhome]

If you're after mainly GWR/WR with a Southern influence then probably safer to stay on a GWR line as GWR engines were restricted on a number of non GWR lines because of clearance problems with the cylinders. In the S West the big contenders are Exeter and Plymouth. Exeter St D is hemmed in by the river and perhaps not quite as large as one might think.

Bulleid light Pacifics went over most of the far LSWR network - but wherre there were junctions the WR engines were at the small end - eg Launceston (WR trains diverted to SR post nationalisation) would be Prairies and Barnstaple Junction was only Moguls (as far as I know Manors never ot there - if anyone else knows differently please say as I'd be very interested)

Moving further East - Oxford was an main engine changing point for North / South workings - so GWR stations between Oxford & Reading would have seen Bullied Pacifics. GWR engines also worked through Salisbury southwards.

Barnstaple - Ilfracombe sometimes saw double heading with a GWR/SR mixture.

There was also a bit of a WR/SR tangle around Yeovil - and between there and Weymouth.

[Karhedron]

I have just come across Okehampton which seems to have a lot of potential. GWR trains rans there and I have photos of Manors, anyone know if anything bigger like a Hall ever ran through there?

 

On the SR side, Pacifics on short trains seemed common too. I have even found a picture of a WC hauling a 3-coach Devon Belle. Now that would really look sweet.

 

http://album.atomic-...evonBelle01.jpg

Edited May 11, 2012 by Karhedron

[bike2steam]

I'm surprised about the Manors, I thought the GW moguls were the biggest for that line from Taunton via Wiveliscombe, and South Molton.

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/WIVI-HISTORY.htm

On odd occasions Bulleids could be seen hauling a single coach with a return working after having worked into Padstow with that portion of the ACE - now that's 'sweet'??.

Edited May 11, 2012 by bike2steam

[cary hill]

I have just come across Okehampton which seems to have a lot of potential. GWR trains rans there and I have photos of Manors, anyone know if anything bigger like a Hall ever ran through there?

 

 

From "The Okehampton Line - The Southern Railway Route between Exeter, Tavistock and Plymouth" - John Nicholas and George Reeve - Irwell Press :-

 

pps 228/9 re Scheduled and diverted Great Western Locomotive Workings

 

"The practice continued for the next 25 years with crews keeping up their route knowledge of both lines on a regular basis. By 1957 the following trains were involved:-

 

Western Region locomotive and crew on Southern Route

 

1. Plymouth based diagram

2.25pm passenger Friary to Exeter Central and 6.35pm return

43XX 2-6-0s until 1948, then Manor 4-6-0s until 1954, BR class 4-6-0s until 1955, and then 2-6-0s again. Occasional appearances by other 4-6-0 classes - Grange, Hall and even Star No.4054 in 1951.

 

2. Exeter based diagrams

11.47am passenger Exeter Central to Friary and 4.40pm return

43XX 2-6-0s except for several months in 1949-50 when Halls were used"

 

It then goes on to the freight workings (no reference to locomotive types used) and the reciprocal Southern locomotive and crew workings on the Western route.

 

There is earlier reference to the 1920s and 1930s when diverted Great Western passenger trains were usually hauled by medium-sized 4-4-0s such as Bulldogs - often in pairs. "Aberdare Goods" 2-6-0s were used on diverted goods trains. Other notes - in the summer of 1942 2-6-0 No. 7321 of Laira shed commenced working the 2.25pm passenger train from Friary to Exeter Central via Okehampton, returning with the 7.5pm from Exeter Central.Initially a pilotman was carried on the footplate but was later dispensed with as crew route knowledge competence grew.

 

Hope the above helps a bit - quite surprised myself that Granges and Halls were used.

 

Okehampton is a very loooong station even in 2mm if the military sidings(car carrier) are modelled

[Karhedron]

From "The Okehampton Line - The Southern Railway Route between Exeter, Tavistock and Plymouth" - John Nicholas and George Reeve - Irwell Press :-

 

1. Plymouth based diagram

2.25pm passenger Friary to Exeter Central and 6.35pm return

43XX 2-6-0s until 1948, then Manor 4-6-0s until 1954, BR class 4-6-0s until 1955, and then 2-6-0s again. Occasional appearances by other 4-6-0 classes - Grange, Hall and even Star No.4054 in 1951.

 

2. Exeter based diagrams

11.47am passenger Exeter Central to Friary and 4.40pm return

43XX 2-6-0s except for several months in 1949-50 when Halls were used"

Thanks for the info. It is nice to know i can legitimately push the boat out and use Halls as well. It sounds like the book you reference would be handy. I will have to see if I can find a copy.

 

Do you know if the WR trains would have hauled WR stock or SR stock?

Edited May 11, 2012 by Karhedron

[bike2steam]

OOps confusing Ilfracombe with Okehampton - please ignore.Sorry.(still no smileys/emoticons!)

[cary hill]

Thanks for the info. It is nice to know i can legitimately push the boat out and use Halls as well. It sounds like the book you reference would be handy. I will have to see if I can find a copy.

 

Do you know if the WR trains would have hauled WR stock or SR stock?

 

Referring back to the book I quoted from earlier, a quick examination of the sample Carriage Working Notice for Summer 1955 and perusal of the photographs featuring WR locos I would say the stock is almost certainly always SR stock.

 

There is reference to 3-set 770 (BSK-CK-BSK) which is compromised of Bulleid coach numbers 4301,5751 and 4302 per http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html being used on the 2.25 from Friary to Exeter.

 

There is mention of a 4-set being used for the 6.37(6.35) from Exeter described as the front portion of a service from Waterloo - unlikely to be WR stock(?)

 

The 11.47 from Exeter seems to be comprised of a 3-set + 3rd and the return service at 4.40 to Exeter has these same coaches in the formation with a PMV for Waterloo and a corridor PMV for Portsmouth.

 

I hope I have interpreted all that correctly.

 

Form a quick skim of the photographs in the book GW locomotives featured include 43XXs 5321, 5361, 5376, 6385, 6301, 7335 (with a Bulleid 3-set) Hall 5976 (Ashwicke) and your "holy grail" 7804 Baydon Manor is featured on the 2.35 Friary to Exeter service, passing Friary shed and pulling a motley collection of old coaching stock(Ironclads?). The photo is dated23rd June 1949 and credited to S.C.Nash. Had a look with the magnifying glass and got son to double check - no discernible tender markings and no smokebox numberplate?

[Karhedron]

"The practice continued for the next 25 years with crews keeping up their route knowledge of both lines on a regular basis. By 1957 the following trains were involved:-

Just out of curiosity, is there a similar list of SR loco types that could be found on the GWR mainline between Pylmouth and Exeter? Would these trains have had SR or WR stock?

[The Stationmaster]

Just out of curiosity, is there a similar list of SR loco types that could be found on the GWR mainline between Pylmouth and Exeter? Would these trains have had SR or WR stock?

I don't know about a list but moguls and light pacifics could be seen on the Western route knowledge refreshing turns.

[Karhedron]

I don't know about a list but moguls and light pacifics could be seen on the Western route knowledge refreshing turns.

Thanks for the info. Do you know if the light pacifics would have been hauling WR or SR stock? I think I have seen photos of these workings but I cannot seem to find them at the moment (maybe in a library book). I model the WR in N gauge but I would like an excuse to add a light pacific and maybe a 3-coach set of Bulleids (or even a short portion of the Devon Belle).

[cary hill]

Per my previously quoted source:

 

The WR passenger services using a Southern Region locomotive and crew on WR metals in 1957 were:

 

1. Friary based diagram

2.15pm passenger Plymouth(NR) to Exeter(SD), thence 5.50pm as far as Newton A (Kingswear train), 7.32pm to Plymouth(NR)

 

N Class Moguls until 1946 then light Pacifics

 

2.Exmouth Junction based diagram

11.35am passenger Exeter(SD) as far as Newton A (Kingswear train), 12.30pm passenger Newton A to Plymouth(NR) and 4.32pm return to Exeter(SD)

 

N Class Moguls until 1946 then light Pacifics. Occasional appearance in late 1947 by oil-burning U class 2-6-0 No.1625 and in late 1955 to early 1956 BR standard class 4-6-0s.

 

There is nothing in the copies of the carriage working notices that I have for the mid to late 1950s to clearly suggest that SR coaches were utilised on the above workings.

 

Example formations:

 

11.35am Exeter to NA (then Kingswear) - Brake Compo(NC), 2 X 3rd(2nd)(NC) and Brake Comp(NC) - Summer 1957

 

12.30pm Newton A to Plymouth(NR) and 4.32pm Plymouth(NR) to Exeter(SD) - 4 coach "M"set - Van Second, Compo, Second and Van Second.

 

I think your best option for a "legitimate" appearance of SR stock on WR metals in the area might one of those exotic summer excursions from places such as Torrington to Goodrington Sands, although I guess they will be too long for what you have in mind.

[Karhedron]

Perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way. Maybe I should be looking at WR locations that also saw some SR workings.

 

Does anyone know how often SR trains used the GWR's Plymouth - Exter route? I know that there were the runs mentioned above to retain crew knowledge. I am guessing that the route was sometimes used "in anger". Would it have been possible to see a light pacific and a shortish rake of bulleid coaches at Dawlish for example?

 

I am wondering if Totnes might make a good prototype as it has a lot of operational interest without being too big. The biggest drawback is the existence of John Birkett-Smith's outstanding model of Totnes in 2mmFS. Oh to be that good....

 

http://www.small-but-perfectly-formed.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/totnes-change-for-ashburton-branch.html

[philwaglab]

When I visited Dorchester South Station in 1972 there was trainloads of coke being unloaded on a siding adjacent to the down (Weymouth) platform.This originated from Cwm Coke Ovens at Llantwit Fardre and were destined for the Ministry of Works mainly schools etc in the area

[Kenton]

 

This originated from Cwm Coke Ovens at Llantwit Fardre and were destined for the Ministry of Works mainly schools etc in the area

I'm pretty sure that my old school in Dorchester was using oil by then. The coal merchants' yard had also gone by that date. But my memories of Dorchester might be a little confused by then as I was out of it by then.

 

(Just love it when an old dormant topic on RMWeb suddenly comes to life again - did anything ever come of a layout? )

[Karhedron]

Alas, nothing ever came of these ideas. Real life has a habit of getting in the way. In my case, it took the form of a lovely little girl called Penelope who is celebrating her first birthday today. Between Penny and her older brothers, modelling time (and space) has been in short supply. I may come back to it in a couple of years time (or when she starts sleeping through the night )

 

[bike2steam]

Yep, been there, seen it etc etc, stay with it, with a bit of patience things will get better - until the grandchildren turn up.

[DCB]

Interesting thread resurrected, the thing about Dorchester is the GW West and SR South stations were both north of the junction so South saw only SR trains and West only GWR trains.  However the "Okehampton"  line saw 2 WR workings per day each day in the same way the SR provided power for 2 Exeter Plymouth locals each way along the GW line along the south Devon coast,     I am not sure if Green SR stock was used on the WR line but  in GWR Days  LMS and LNER stock worked to Plymouth and beyond both as complete rakes and as through coaches.

 

The GWR Taunton Barstaple line was restricted to certain Taunton based 43XX which had their footsteps trimmed back for clearance.  2251 class of which Taunton had several were also allowed as were bulldogs Dean Goods etc in earlier days but No Manors Halls etc.  Taunton (GW) locos also worked through to Ilfracombe.

The SR was very fond of portional working, West of Okehampton 3 or 4 coaches was the norm even with a Bullied pacific, only the daily Plymouth Brighton train had a decent load throughout normally 8 coaches.  Before the coming of the Pacifics in ludicrously large numbers a fleet of 4-4-0s happily and economically ran these trains and even in Pacific days the last T 9 s worked out their days on 3 coach locals until replaced by standard tanks displaced by suburban electrification .     N class moguls were the SRs main "Heavy" goods locos between Exeter and Plymouth but like the GW Newton Abbott to Plymouth line loads were light by north country standards.

 

Tavistock SR would make a great model as would Meldon, where the Viaduct would make a great lift out section...

[philwaglab]

The coal siding at Dorchester South lasted until the early 80's .The main merchant was T.Burt who had an office just inside the coal yard.

[montyburns56]

I came across this picture of Dorchester and I was intrigued about the weird layout, but as others have said it seems that trains actually had to reverse into the platform pictured on the right! Unbelievably this carried on until 1970 when the sensible thing was done and a platform was built on the main curve.

 

 

[DCB]

Four years, 364 days, 16 hours, is this a record gap in a thread?

[Ian J.]

Remember that when Dorchester South was built, there was still a plan to carry on the line to Exeter. That never happened. The chord was put in to the GWR line into Weymouth, though I'm not sure when, which is where the down platform came into being. Due to the line not being the busiest, I imagine it was felt easier just to keep the reversal for up trains. BR rightly decided, albeit very late in the life of the station, to put in the platform on the up curve. Then in the late 80s(?) finally the original station building and platform were sold off to the local brewery and a new station put in on the up platform.

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Four years, 364 days, 16 hours, is this a record gap in a thread?

Not even close.