Dorchester South

[Karhedron]

Please can anyone recommend good books/sites for photos and track plans of Dorchester South station from around Nationalisation until the end of Steam? It seems like an interesting station with both GWR and SR trains. There was a curved through portion of the station and a straight terminus section plus a big brewery for freight. Strikes me as a promising prototype.

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Model Railway Constructor did a series on Dorchester South, haven't copies i'm afraid but there are several indexes on the Web. Mitchells Bournemouth- Weymouth book ahs some images IIRC.

Steve

[Kenton]

It has been done - but wouldn't want to put you off - It is a lovely station - or was - the brewery has gone as has the engine shed and the coal yard. Also the down curved platform has changed somewhat with the addition of the up curved. You will require quite a lot of space though to do it justice from Wareham Road bridge to Cemetery Junction Bridge.

 

Personally though, I think Dorchester West was better.

[Karhedron]

It has been done - but wouldn't want to put you off - It is a lovely station - or was - the brewery has gone as has the engine shed and the coal yard.

 

I think that the Brewery is still there (the buildings at least). I think it is being turned into luxury flats or something like that.

 

Personally though, I think Dorchester West was better.

 

Hmm, on a curve, convenient scenic break just beyond the end of the platform. I can't find many pictures from the steam era though. Was there much source of operational interest or was it just for watching trains go by?

[cary hill]

Didn't trains heading East from Weymouth have to pass beyond the station and reverse back into the station plattform until relatively recent times

[kevinlms]

As stated earlier, Dorchester was covered in Model Railway Constructor.

 

1977 November

1977 December

1978 January

1978 February

1978 April

1978 May

1978 July & follow up info on workings October.

 

Some collecting to do, if you don't already have them?

 

 

Kevin Martin

[Tim Chambers]

Apart from the afore mentioned reversal of east bound trains into the old up platform, I wouldn't have thought the operating pattern had that much to commend it, and IIRC apart from the odd transfer from West station, there were no regular GWR/WR services through South station.

[bike2steam]

Personally though, I think Dorchester West was better.

 

Certainly was, up untill the regional boundary changes in the 50's, the original GW line was the busiest line out of Weymouth was a double track main line with regular Castle hauled trains to Paddington, most of the freight went up to Westbury. There was a good archive video made by 'Telerail' showing the exGW workings out of Weymouth.

In a way Tim isn't quite right about WR workings, when Weymouth was still in the Western Region there were the occasional trains worked into Bournemouth by WR men with exGW locos on 'route learning' trips.

Oh yes, and 'kahedron' is partly right about the brewery, part of it is rebuilt, part of it is being redeveloped. Not much of Eldridge Popes produce went by rail.

If you need pics, contact Colin Caddy, I can pm his phone number if needed.

[Kenton]

Dorchester West had quite a lot to commend it. Quite a lot of cattle traffic up until the mid 60's at least to support the very active livestock market. The market area was much bigger than it is now and most of it was on the north-east side of the road connecting the two stations that split the market. I remember in the 50's cattle being herded out of the yard and down this "road". Other traffic was also a large amount of timber and grain. Dorchester was very much an "old" style market town with a very active market and merchants' centre for the county. Tractors and similar equipment were delivered there. Also IIRC there was a loading ramp for cars and other vehicles, in addition to the cattle dock. The milk train was a feature of early morning traffic along with the parcels. The line was in those days double track all the way to Yeovil, including through Poundbury tunnel (a perfect scenic break. The yard always had something interesting in it. A nice little signal box (I'm biased as my father was apprentice bobby there before the war) The track layout in the station was a little unusual as it had a notorious crossover in the middle. Notorious as a cut had to be made in the up platform to allow locos to use the crossover without hitting the platform. The cut in the platform edge was sufficient to make it very "mind the gap" if you were unfortunate to stop adjacent to it on returning from Weymouth. The only thing missing was an engine shed and turntable. Of course the GWR shed at Weymouth was near enough.

 

The main redeeming feature of Dorchester South was the MPD and coal merchants on the south side. I do not remember much traffic into Eldridge Pope's Brewery complex but there must have been some. The brewery complex was quite big and indeed still is. However, I don't think the blend of old and new buildings in the complex (apartments, shopping centre, health centre...) has much to redeem itself. It is my personal opinion that it has been infected with the same crazy madman notions that have beset other parts of Dorchester - but I guess that is to be expected. The station building itself is a bit of a joke, looking a bit like something out of a comic book.

[bike2steam]

The shed at Dorchester South was an unusual set up, two distinctly different building styles( 4 road shed, one two road, the other two roads) side by side, entrance to, and from the mainline was into one road actually near enough in the shed, entrance to the yard meant entering the shed then reversing out again ?!?

 

Try this, put in coordinates 369250 & 90050 then go for the 1956/7 map.

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

Edited April 25, 2012 by bike2steam

[Kenton]

Dorchester - One a 2 road brick dead-ended the other a wooden 2 road dead-ended.

 

The track layout on the south side was interesting, to put it mildly. The original access to the shed was from the west of the station down platform and ran behind the platform making it an island. Remember that passenger access to this platform was through an underpass from the up platform and main station building. The layout to the shed was altered in 1875 when the timber shed was added and the turntable moved. This enabled that line to be used for merchant coal traffic. Access to the shed was then from the east end of the platform just past the water tank. All locos entering the MPD had to virtually enter the northern road of the brick shed before being reversed back along the new coaling stage spur (separate from the coal line above) and then into the other road of the brick shed or the timber one, or onto the relocated turntable. The turntable also had a fan of 3 short storage roads on the east side. At a later date, probably about 1931 when the wooden shed was re-roofed, an additional siding was added along the coal stage.

 

In 1937, the turntable at Radipole had to be repaired and all GWR locos were forced to return to Dorchester and use its turntable - the place must have been a real railfest at that time with such a variety of locos trying to get on to this difficult access shed simply to turn on what was a complicated manoeuvre.

 

There is a good schematic plan of the station including the various buildings including the north side goods shed and location of cranes and tracks into the brewery in A Historical Survey of Southern Sheds by C Hawkins & G Reeve ISBN:86093 020 3. There is also a very good photo of the two sheds in there.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Kenton

[Karhedron]

Try this, put in coordinates 369250 & 90050 then go for the 1956/7 map.

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

Thanks a lot. I had seen a similar map from pre-grouping era so it is nice to see how it looked just after nationalisation (the period I am considering).

 

There is a good schematic plan of the station including the various buildings including the north side goods shed and location of cranes and tracks into the brewery in A Historical Survey of Southern Sheds by C Hawkins & G Reeve ISBN:86093 020 3. There is also a very good photo of the two sheds in there.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, I will see if I can track down a copy.

 

One reason I still favouring south rather than west is the ability to run SR trains as well as GWR ones. I am a GWR man at heart but I have a soft spot for the southern and with both Dapol and Farish promising a range of new models to come, I would rather like somewhere that can support both.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Karhedron

[bike2steam]

While still in WR hands, Weymouth shed had no qualms about borrowing SR locos, and sending them on local traffic up to Yeovil, there are pics around of 'Arthurs' on two coach locals to Maiden Newton. It would be nice to have space to model both Dorchester South, and West, and include ( with a bit of compression) the north portal of Bincombe tunnel with the central banker siding.

[Kris]

There was a piece on the BBC news this week about Dorchester south being rebuilt to become solar powered (Station not track I assume ).

[Karhedron]

It would be nice to have space to model both Dorchester South, and West, and include ( with a bit of compression) the north portal of Bincombe tunnel with the central banker siding.

It certainly would. Sadly I suspect I do not have the space for anything so ambitous, even in N gauge. Looking for a compact station that handled both WR and SR trains and had a bit of operational interest seems to be a tricky job.

 

There are plenty of stations where the 2 met but most are places like Basingstoke and Exeter which are more suited to club layouts than a solo operation. The other options down in the deep south-west tend to be places that were too small to see "mainline" trains. I don't expect to run crack-expresses but I would like to be able to at least run a Hall+5 (or similar). The Southern is a bit more forgiving in this regard as the ACE could easily consist of a Bulleid Pacific + 3 once it had started shedding coaches.

 

I have been suggested Launceston but I am not sure if the GWR ever ran anything bigger than a Mogul there. Also the 2 stations were separate (although I think a link was added during WW2). This means more space without adding much extra operational interest.

 

More brainstorming required I think.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Karhedron

[Kenton]

Of course Weymouth Radipole shed was very much a shared shed between the SR and WR. It replacd the old separate LSWR and GW sheds at Weymouth. The LSWR shed at Weymouth was always a sub shed of Dorchester and really was not used much for the express/large locos it was quite small. (including the 100mph record through Wool that was crewed by Dorchester based crew)

 

Radipole saw to it the demise of Dorchester - no need to send SR locos back up the line to turn and Radipole also had a serious lifting crane and workshop so after nationalisation there just was not the need for it, Nothing other than goods terminated there anymore.

[Karhedron]

IIRC apart from the odd transfer from West station, there were no regular GWR/WR services through South station.

 

Certainly was, up untill the regional boundary changes in the 50's, the original GW line was the busiest line out of Weymouth was a double track main line with regular Castle hauled trains to Paddington

 

I am struggling to reconcile these 2 statements. Does this mean that most GWR/WR services ran through South station without stopping?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Karhedron

[Ian J.]

I believe Paul was making the point that after the late 50s boundary changes the Weymouth - Castle Cary, Paddington, etc., services that ran through West were somewhat curtailed, leading to the busier line being via South and with BR(S) trains to Waterloo.

 

It's certainly true that no frequent regular Western Region services ever ran via South.

[Karhedron]

It's certainly true that no frequent regular Western Region services ever ran via South.

I can see the mistake I have made now. Because the old maps showed a GWR station at South, I assumed that South station was before the GWR and SR lines parted company. A quick look at a modern map has cleared everything up for me. Shame really as the station itself has some potential I think.

 

OK, I am open to suggestions from the floor. Can anyone suggest a compact prototype where GWR and SR rubbed shoulders. Ideally I would like to be able to run a Bulleid pacific + 3 coaches on the SR front and a Hall + 5 coaches from the GWR.

 

Any ideas welcome.

[bike2steam]

I believe that originally Dorchester South was a joint S&DR ( Southampton & Dorchester, pre-LSWR), and GWR station with the S&D having running rights into Weymouth. The S&DR intentions were to carry on to join the West Of England main line somewhere near Axminster untill reality switched in when it was realised that the massive civil engineering costs couldn't be justified.

[cary hill]

 

OK, I am open to suggestions from the floor. Can anyone suggest a compact prototype where GWR and SR rubbed shoulders. Ideally I would like to be able to run a Bulleid pacific + 3 coaches on the SR front and a Hall + 5 coaches from the GWR.

 

Any ideas welcome.

 

If you wanted a "left-field" suggestion have you ever looked at St Budeaux, Plymouth? The surroundings are a bit surburban and consequently maybe not that exciting but.....

 

GWR and SR double-track mainlines "side by side" each company having a modest station or halt, either side of a road bridge, which spanned both lines. A wartime 1941 connection was put in to enable transfers between the two lines. The GWR halt is the poor relation having no goods facilities, but the SR station had a Goods Shed and a couple of sidings.

The stations are both built on a gentle curve. It's a little too big for me in 4mm, but width wouldn't a problem in 2mm, although it might still require some use of modeller's licence(length compression) to incorporate the various cuttings, embankments and the duck-under of the SR line to Exeter beneath the GWR line as it begins it's climb up towards the Saltash Bridge.

 

There wouldn't be any problem justifying anything other than a King on GW metals and BoB/WCS are no problem on SR metals.

 

Please feel free to kick this suggestion into the long grass

[Kris]

If you wanted a "left-field" suggestion have you ever looked at St Budeaux, Plymouth? The surroundings are a bit surburban and consequently maybe not that exciting but.....

 

GWR and SR double-track mainlines "side by side" each company having a modest station or halt, either side of a road bridge, which spanned both lines. A wartime 1941 connection was put in to enable transfers between the two lines. The GWR halt is the poor relation having no goods facilities, but the SR station had a Goods Shed and a couple of sidings.

The stations are both built on a gentle curve. It's a little too big for me in 4mm, but width wouldn't a problem in 2mm, although it might still require some use of modeller's licence(length compression) to incorporate the various cuttings, embankments and the duck-under of the SR line to Exeter beneath the GWR line as it begins it's climb up towards the Saltash Bridge.

 

There wouldn't be any problem justifying anything other than a King on GW metals and BoB/WCS are no problem on SR metals.

 

Please feel free to kick this suggestion into the long grass

 

If you do want to look further at this plan I have it already drawn up for 2mm with no compression. These plans run from the Wolseley road bridge to the Normandy hill bridges. They show the gradients and potential baseboard sizes (if you are prepared to accept some large boards). Even in 2mm this creates a large layout. For me it is part of a long term plan to model the station along with the Royal Albert Bridge.

Let me know if you want them and I will email them through. They are big though.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Kris

[Joseph_Pestell]

If you don't want anything GW larger than a Hall, options start to open up. Halls were used on Cardiff to Southampton trains (not sure if they ever reached Portsmouth). So quite a few Southern stations available there. Romsey (already modelled by Southampton MRC in 00 IIRC) is a lovely station with interesting features such as a two-level goods shed - still standing and used by an architectural salvage firm).

 

I think that Halls were also used on some trains from Reading to Southampton.

 

If you could make do with a Manor, Barnstaple Jct would be a good option (but single tracks).

 

By the same token, if you do not need too much Southern and want the larger GW classes, West Country/BoB hauled the inter-regional trains from Bournemouth to Oxford so any of the GW mainline stations between Tilehurst and Didcot would be a possibility.

 

I would need to check but I think that West Country also made it onto the DN&S (more usually the preserve of T9), so Newbury would also be an option.

 

But going back to where you started (or nearly), do you really want a continuous run? Weymouth was a very interesting station and quite compact before it was rebuilt in the 60s/70s.

[Oldddudders]

If you wanted a "left-field" suggestion have you ever looked at St Budeaux, Plymouth? The surroundings are a bit surburban and consequently maybe not that exciting but.....

In the steam days this was a rather fun bit of railway, whether you were on SR or WR metals, frankly. While the suburban setting can be a bit daunting and tedious to model, the operational opportunities make it a very attractive and above all legitimately busy sort of setting for a model. I think it fits the OP's bill quite well.

[Ceptic]

Another, possible, location, is / was Wilton North (WReg.) & Wilton South (SReg.). A more rural setting with some interesting engine workings (Loco changeovers + goods yard at Wilton South).

The research needed may prove extensive though, as both stations are now brick dust.

 

North closed to passengers in 1955. Goods traffic ceased 1965, altough the Quidhampton chalk, now ECClay terminal, approx 1 Mile to the East, remains.

The South station was dispensed with, in 1966.

 

Edited to include extra info'.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ceptic