Andy Y Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Until anyone can derive an unequivocal list of the dates that each 42xx loco carried portholes, side shutters, short/tall safety valve bonnets, extended bunker, Churchward motion support blah, blah I can't say whether Hornby's loco, as modelled, is correct for any specific loco (it could be, but equally it may not be), all I can say is that it's not 100% correct as 4283 in its liveried representation and the review will reflect that. Whether it actually matters is in the eyes and wallet of the buyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 Until anyone can derive an unequivocal list of the dates that each 42xx loco carried portholes, side shutters, short/tall safety valve bonnets, extended bunker, Churchward motion support blah, blah I can't say whether Hornby's loco, as modelled, is correct for any specific loco (it could be, but equally it may not be), all I can say is that it's not 100% correct as 4283 in its liveried representation and the review will reflect that. Whether it actually matters is in the eyes and wallet of the buyer. Whos doing the review at BRM Andy ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Whos doing the review at BRM Andy ? I've done this one with contributions from Mike (Stationmaster) for which I'm very grateful - an absolute minefield! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 My requirement is for a heavy coal puller to operate between S.Wales and Salisbury with the loco finished to the standard I have become accustomed to. Now there's a no brainer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 I've done this one with contributions from Mike (Stationmaster) for which I'm very grateful - an absolute minefield! And I am responsible for any of his errors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm all for getting details as right as can be. I'm all for getting details as right as necessary, and no more. My model railway is so full of compromises that a few more are not going to matter. That's why I like to say that my model is an impression of a railway. (Good thing I'm not modelling the SNCF; there have been enough French Impressionists in the arts already ) Whether it actually matters is in the eyes and wallet of the buyer. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Many thanks Nick. I have updated the page, and included extra notes on steam lance cock positions..... I didn't know that Miss Prism was behind this excellent and informative website (and one I've plundered many a time). A most valuable resource (when I was starting my St Cuthberts layout, I frequently referred to the site in order to ensure I made appropriate and accurate rolling stock purchases) However, the reason I suggested a pamphlet was that - if my workshop is anything to go by - the last thing I should have in it is an expensive PC, laptop or iPad that could (would?) get covered in paint, solvent, swarf and solder. A paper pamphlet (perhaps a PDF printout) with tables, notes and sketches would be just the thing to have at hand in the busy organised chaos of many a workshop... iD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm all for getting details as right as necessary, and no more. My model railway is so full of compromises that a few more are not going to matter. That's why I like to say that my model is an impression of a railway.Jane, Yes, I agree with you to a point*, though I will add that it's nice to know if a model is inaccurate and a good review doesn't need to pull any punches when a fairly visible livery/detail combination is wrong. * Given that we make so many compromises anyway. We can all make the choice to happily overlook inaccuracies (as I am wont to do), fix them ourselves, or decide not to purchase. It is nice when manufacturers get it very correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I know Mike mentioned the Salisbury turn earlier in the thread I got the impression it was in the 30's did it still happen in BR days and was it just the 72's or both classes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2013 I know Mike mentioned the Salisbury turn earlier in the thread I got the impression it was in the 30's did it still happen in BR days and was it just the 72's or both classes? The Salisbury working carried on until the end of steam on the Southern Region although there were at various times a number of coal trains across the Westbury - Salisbury axis (and return empties) which appear from their WTT description to have most likely involved domestic (and possibly industrial?) coal as well as loco coal. As far as I can trace back (and the workings do go a long way back) they were originally worked by pairs of 0-6-0 saddle tanks and there were definitely workings powered in this manner through the Severn Tunnel (and not just for Salisbury). What I'm unsure about but presume is that they were probably worked by Aberdare 2-6-0s at some period before the 72XX appeared but 42XX were quite likely also involved (there might have been something about this in GWRJ?). I know for certain that 72XX worked the Salisbury trains in BR days having spoken to a number of men who worked them on these trains (and didn't much like them) and I presume - as much from what they said as anything else that the 72XX continued on the job until dieselisation. However in view of the nature of some of the timetabled coal trains and empties they were not solely worked by South Wales depots so other loco classes were probably involved as well. As an aside I'm not at all sure what happened prior to the opening of the Severn Tunnel - did the coal go by sea or via some very circuitous route? Study of service timetables suggests that very little coal traffic went via Gloucester with most of the South Wales to London coal workings originating at Aberdare or Pontypool Road and going via Hereford, Worcester, and Oxford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thanks Mike just the answer I needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 As an aside I'm not at all sure what happened prior to the opening of the Severn Tunnel I get the impression, Mike, that all the possible sea and rail routes you suggest were probably used, including the Severn Bridge route (although that was primarily for Forest of Dean coal). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2013 For anyone wishing to fit sprung buffers to these when they arrive,Markits do a set like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Markits-GWR-Collett-Sprung-Loco-Buffers-/160980457204?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item257b2ed6f4 Also available from 247 too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 For anyone wishing to fit sprung buffers to these when they arrive,Markits do a set like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Markits-GWR-Collett-Sprung-Loco-Buffers-/160980457204?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item257b2ed6f4 Also available from 247 too. Alan Gibson also do similar ones, but check your photos, a 42XX in the 1930s could possibly have Churchward taper, Collett taper or Collet parallel types but it gets progressively easier with the 5205 and 72XX. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2013 Alan Gibson also do similar ones, but check your photos, a 42XX in the 1930s could possibly have Churchward taper, Collett taper or Collet parallel types but it gets progressively easier with the 5205 and 72XX. Nick Yes I forgot to add about checking photos if possible.The preserved 4247 has the ones I linked too though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Collett taper??? (Were there enough spares?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor-onGRT4 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 However I have just cancelled my preorder for R3128/7229 for the following reasons. The specification originally communicated has changed it seems-- # no sprung buffers # 3 pole and not the standard 5 pole motor # moulded on detail like the smokebox door handle--this model conceived/promoted before the age of clever design has been caught up in the same. regards, Ed About the sprung buffer discusion, Hornby advertised on their site and in their catalogue sprung buffers and 3 pole motor with fly wheel, so in the first you are right on the other subject youre wrong, but if people expecting sprung buffers they should get them, because they got the information it would have sprung buffers and if people ordered on that information Hornby can not say we changed it because it would save 10 pound in sales price to recall S.K. somewhere said some time ago but more than a year after the announcement of these loco's. The 3 pole motor was as advertised so people know they got not an 5 pole motor. For the sprung buffers it is the same for when you order a car from the factory with a radio because it was advertised with one but you get it without one because the factory said it would save us 100 pound on the salesprice and we like that better. Would you accept that? it is nearly the same. If a manufacturer offer something new and they give the information to the customer, that information must be right and not be changed because it suits them. When we are going to accept that and saying it is a little item not important, what will be the next change on a model Hornby make after people placed pre orders. For this keep yourself on the prommisses you give to the customer it will not be good for your immage when changeing , it is still on the site informed as with sprung buffers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I know for certain that 72XX worked the Salisbury trains in BR days having spoken to a number of men who worked them on these trains (and didn't much like them) and I presume - as much from what they said as anything else that the 72XX continued on the job until dieselisation. However in view of the nature of some of the timetabled coal trains and empties they were not solely worked by South Wales depots so other loco classes were probably involved as well. Indeed they did: incontrovertible evidence shown in this picture, 7250, platform 1 Salisbury. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/7268458914/in/set-72157627233487481/lightbox/ Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The catalogue makes no mention of sprung buffers but does state a 3 pole motor with flywheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Collett taper??? (Were there enough spares?) Maybe not, but I think 4200 was built with something very much like them and Diagram E, as reproduced in Russell, suggests they were used on the first lots of 5205s. It would be worth finding as-built photos of later members of lot 220 to see if any of those had them. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thanks, Nick. That's another paragraph I've got to conjure with... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Indeed they did: incontrovertible evidence shown in this picture, 7250, platform 1 Salisbury. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/7268458914/in/set-72157627233487481/lightbox/ Adam 7242 climbing away from Westbury heading for Salisbury from the same site in 1963 http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/8438336271/in/photostream Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 If it ran on the southern then I'm having one but this thread has lost me on the details, as far as I can see that Hornby has the correct motion bracket and stepped footplate for the model of 7202. I'm not overly bothered about the other details it looks too much like a minefield. So R3172 and a respray into BR black, is yay or nay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor-onGRT4 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The catalogue makes no mention of sprung buffers but does state a 3 pole motor with flywheel. It sure does, see 2012 catalogue below the page under detail: > sprung buffers< and indeed 3 pole motor but i've mention that before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2013 If it ran on the southern then I'm having one but this thread has lost me on the details, as far as I can see that Hornby has the correct motion bracket and stepped footplate for the model of 7202. I'm not overly bothered about the other details it looks too much like a minefield. So R3172 and a respray into BR black, is yay or nay? That is exactly my intention. The Hornby model of 7202 is correct (or appears to be correct ) for the first group of 72XX, i.e, 7200 - 19 as rebuilt from 5275 - 94. The only pernickety items being whether a particular loco at a particular time did or did not have a bunker top fender (7202 did) and whether or not the loco had or had not received a later pattern bunker of the pattern used on the final group of 72XX - there being clear photographic evidence that several locos from the first group acquired new bunkers to the same pattern as the third group at, variously, some time during the 1950s. The latter point is of course a matter of whether or not you want to go in for strictly dated rivet pattern accuracy otherwise you just get on with painting 7202 black after removing the GW markings, ignore the question about the top fender, and apply number of you choice from the first group. Simples. Incidentally I don't think they worked beyond salisbury onto the Southern but you never know what pics might emerge next (and in their time of course they ran into Salisbury on the GW line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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