42xx Hornby 42xx& 72xx - first glimpses

[bigherb]

 

It sure does, see 2012 catalogue below the page under detail: > sprung buffers< and indeed 3 pole motor but i've mention that before

But not in the 2013 catalogue and it does reserve the right to change specification and prices without notice.

 

Thanks again Mike looks like it's a goer then.

[Happy Hippo]

I don't wish to throw yet another spanner into the works, but............

 

I note that some of the straight framed 42xx sometimes ended up with plated over smokeboxes where the outside steam pipes had been removed and an older set of cylinders with inside steam pipes put onto the frames instead.

 

Did this happen with the straight framed 72xx at any time?

 

I presume that this was not an option with the raised frame locos as they were designed from the outset for outside steam pipes, or have I lost the plot on this issue.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[The Stationmaster]

 

I note that some of the straight framed 42xx sometimes ended up with plated over smokeboxes where the outside steam pipes had been removed and an older set of cylinders with inside steam pipes put onto the frames instead.

 

Regards

 

Richard

I think you've got something the wrong way round there Richard

[buffalo]

Are you thinking of the preserved 4277? Presumably it has acquired a smokebox, and maybe more, from a 5205 or something else  at some time.

 

Nick

[melmerby]

 

it is the same for when you order a car from the factory with a radio because it was advertised with one

but you get it without one because the factory said it would save us 100 pound on the salesprice and we like that better.

Would you accept that? it is nearly the same.

If a manufacturer offer something new and they give the information to the customer, that information must be right and not

be changed because it suits them.

 

 

 

If you check you will find most (all?) manufacturers, including car firms, say that specifications can be changed without notice.

Not until you agree to purchase at a certain spec and the money changes hands does the deal become binding.

A pre-order is not a guarantee of spec, just price, by the seller. Even that is likely to have exclusions

 

The last new car I purchased was a different spec to that when I ordered, there was a small delay and a model "update" took place. Only when the car had be located in the supply chain did I know exectly what the spec was. I suppose I could have refused to buy it. As it happened it was slightly better specified and supplied at the same price.

 

Keith

[brushman47544]

Incidentally I don't think they worked beyond salisbury onto the Southern.

 

Claiming Salisbury as GW territory now, Mike

 

Please everyone stop looking for photos or the 72xx further onto Southern metals or I risk being tempted. My wallet is already creaking over the Dapol Westerns and Hornby 2-BIL...

[Happy Hippo]

I think you've got something the wrong way round there Richard

Mike,

 

I'm obviously having a bad hair day, as I was convinced I'd replied to this earlier today.

 

Yes, it was not very well phrased!

 

The earlier 42xx were often seen with plated over smoke boxes from outside steam piped locos that had been fitted with them prior to going through the works.

 

Firstly one must wonder whether fitters were required to cut holes in older smoke boxes if they were subsequently fitted to a loco with frames and cylinders from an outside steam piped variant.

 

(I know that other parts such as buffers and valve gear parts did frequently go on holidays around the rest of the fleet)

 

Since the 72xx were extended versions of the 42/5205 locos, is there photographic or documentary evidence to prove that this practice also affected the 72xx, so that it was possible to get a straight framed variant with a patched smoke box.

 

Please note this is not just idle curiosity, but judging by the froth and foam generated by a line of rivets, then I would expect Hornby to address such an obvious discrepancy with potential loco number allocation.

 

After all, it's not just rivets, but patches as well!

 

signed

 

Mortified of Llandridnod Wells

 

Regards

 

Richard

[bigherb]

And they say the Bullieds are complicated.

[The Stationmaster]

Mike,

 

 

The earlier 42xx were often seen with plated over smoke boxes from outside steam piped locos that had been fitted with them prior to going through the works.

 

Firstly one must wonder whether fitters were required to cut holes in older smoke boxes if they were subsequently fitted to a loco with frames and cylinders from an outside steam piped variant.

 

(I know that other parts such as buffers and valve gear parts did frequently go on holidays around the rest of the fleet)

 

Since the 72xx were extended versions of the 42/5205 locos, is there photographic or documentary evidence to prove that this practice also affected the 72xx, so that it was possible to get a straight framed variant with a patched smoke box.

 

Please note this is not just idle curiosity, but judging by the froth and foam generated by a line of rivets, then I would expect Hornby to address such an obvious discrepancy with potential loco number allocation.

 

After all, it's not just rivets, but patches as well!

 

signed

 

Mortified of Llandridnod Wells

 

Regards

 

Richard

You might care to rethink that question after doing a little research into the 72XX class engines

[Miss Prism]

Maybe not, but I think 4200 was built with something very much like them and Diagram E, as reproduced in Russell, suggests they were used on the first lots of 5205s. It would be worth finding as-built photos of later members of lot 220 to see if any of those had them.

You're right, Nick. On re-reading John Palk's notes, 5205-74 had Collett taper, and 5275 thereafter had Collett parallel (plus of course pre-5205 had Churchward taper), so all three types were carried.

[Coach bogie]

Since the 72xx were extended versions of the 42/5205 locos, is there photographic or documentary evidence to prove that this practice also affected the 72xx, so that it was possible to get a straight framed variant with a patched smoke box.

Please note this is not just idle curiosity, but judging by the froth and foam generated by a line of rivets,

Regards

Richard

 

You may benefit from looking through the 7200 trust web site and photo gallery.

 

http://www.7200trust.org.uk/default.aspx

 

As the 14 x 42XX rebuilds all received new 19" cylinders smoke box patches were never going to be seen on a 72XX

 

In addition for those who are not sure what the 2,750 gallon capacity 72XX bunker rivet line is look here and compare to the Hornby model images on page 1, based on an original 2,500 gallon capacty version. It also shows a detailed close up of the fender that is also in question for some engines..

 

http://www.7200trust.org.uk/photos.aspx?cat=restoration&photo=110602001.jpg

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55623-Hornby-42xx-72xx-first-glimpses/page-1

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Ozexpatriate]

The catalogue makes no mention of sprung buffers but does state a 3 pole motor with flywheel.

It sure does, see 2012 catalogue below the page under detail: > sprung buffers< and indeed 3 pole motor but i've mention that before

The online catalogue for the 72xx doesn't mention sprung buffers - but it still says 5 pole motor!

 

At best Hornby's catalogues in the last few years are not reliable for the details. Sometimes that's OK - like when they change a running number/name to better suit the model they are building. Sometimes they're just error prone. 

[Happy Hippo]

Mike (W),

 

Thank you for the link to the 72xx page, and also for clearing up the mystery (to me) of the cylinders.

 

If I've got this right, the older non outside steam piped versions of the 42xx could receive smoke boxes previously fitted to outside steam piped variants.

 

You would not know the parentage of the smoke box refitted to a late variety 42/5205 because it either was already 'holy', or was made so by the fitters on re erection.

 

Likewise it is possible however remotely that 42/5202/72xx smoke boxes would and could migrate between locos when they were totally stripped down. as they were built to the same dimensions.

 

However, the previous incarnation of a smokebox would only be seen to be 'unoriginal, if fitted to a non outside steam piped 42 xx, which would by necessity, sport rivetted patches.

 

I think my comment about Hornby missing a trick with the 'patches' would therefore still stand.

 

Having now pre-ordered both the BR variants of the 42/5205 for my layout, I am seriously considering getting 7202 and doing a repaint in order to represent 7205 which was latterly based at Radyr.

 

However, if my wife gets wind of this, I can assure you I am not going to Radyr, but straight to hell!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[ed 66 plant]

Gentlemen,

                  Please refer to the reply I have just received from Hornby ref.detail query/R3128---

Dear Mr Plant

Thank you for your e-mail and apologies for the time taken to respond to you. R3128 has a proposed release date of the end of March 2013. This locomotive will have a 5 pole skew motor with the correct large motion bracket and straight drop over the cylinders. However it will not have sprung buffers. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours Sincerely

Stephanie Brown

Customer Care

 

regards,

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

You're right, Nick. On re-reading John Palk's notes, 5205-74 had Collett taper, and 5275 thereafter had Collett parallel (plus of course pre-5205 had Churchward taper), so all three types were carried.

And odd (or awkward) to relate while looking for something completely different I came across a pic in a book of 5206 ex-works in BR days with parallel buffers on the front end (couldn't see the back end of course).  Buffers could be, and were, repaired/swapped at depot level in the event of damage.  Back to dated photos.

[buffalo]

I don't have a clear feel for when parallel buffers started to appear on 42XX and 5205, but I think it was quite widespread, at least post-war. I'll need to check some photos in GWRJ and other sources. However, several of the photos of them in the RCTS volume and in Russell show parallel buffers. For example, Russell has an ex-works shot of 4231 in 1946 with them, with a tall bonnet and with the top front lamp iron moved to the smokebox door.

 

I notice that the pictures on Hornby's web site show a representation of a taper buffer on 5274 in Great Western livery, but a rather long an spindly representation of the parallel type on the BR 5243. 4283 with shirtbutton also seems to have this parallel version.

 

Nick

[Neal Ball]

 

This from the Hornby Facebook page today. After their reply, there follows a bit of a rant, which personally I think is unwarranted.....

 

It looks as if the GWR version will be on these shore in a week or two......

 

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  Neal Ball

  
  Any news on when the 42xx will arrive? Like ·  · Yesterday at 20:15
  

  
  

  
  

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    Hornby Model Railways Hi Neal, We have had a slight issue with the packaging. The 42xx models have now been produced and are on their way. The GWR version will be early next month with the BR version following a couple of weeks later.

    
    

    
    

    
    

    
    

    
    
    
    
    

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  

[melmerby]

Don't have Facebook so comments don't mean anything to me!

 

Keith

[buffalo]

I've added some notes on the buffers and other changeable small features to the prototype topic.

 

Nick

[Cor-onGRT4]

Today I've got an e-mail from Hattons,about the GWR 7202  R3127.

They have bin informet by Hornby it will be delivered in May [2050?]   

Hopefully we are not here  by the time been

Just hoping 42xx will on his way , no e-mail yet about that one but don't be

surprissed when that's happening there fooling with us 

Just some night's sleep about it before ariving ----- 143265

[melmerby]

Today I've got an e-mail from Hattons,about the GWR 7202  R3127.

They have bin informet by Hornby it will be delivered in May [2050?]   

Hopefully we are not here  by the time been

Just hoping 42xx will on his way , no e-mail yet about that one but don't be

surprissed when that's happening there fooling with us 

Just some night's sleep about it before ariving ----- 143265

I've noticed that the retailer that I have the 4200 & 5205 on order from has adjusted their expected date back another month into April!

Last time I looked they were imminent, looks like not quite.

 

Keith

[Siberian Snooper]

it does'nt loo th

I've noticed that the retailer that I have the 4200 & 5205 on order from has adjusted their expected date back another month into April!

Last time I looked they were imminent, looks like not quite.

 

Keith

It doesn't look then, as if the 42xx or 52xx will be available at the Ally Pally, British Festival of Railway Modelling Show for perusal then!

 

SS

[gwrrob]

Today I've got an e-mail from Hattons,about the GWR 7202  R3127.

They have bin informet by Hornby it will be delivered in May [2050?]   

 

Blimey. Hornby must have major issues getting cardboard for their packing.Come on Simon K tell us something please.

[melmerby]

it does'nt loo thIt doesn't look then, as if the 42xx or 52xx will be available at the Ally Pally, British Festival of Railway Modelling Show for perusal then!

 

SS

My retailer has  "DCC Fitted" versions showing to be arriving earlier!!! (The DCC Fitted 72XX , GWR & BR are shown as all sold out)

 

Keith

[iL Dottore]

Given that I still have to lay track for my layout, I am fairly sanguine about delivery times for rolling stock, but I AM starting to get disconcerted about the repeated announcements of yet another delay on these Tank Engines. One or two delays one can put down to unexpected circumstances, but multiple delays could suggest other problems for Hornby beyond those of these big GWR Tank Engines.

 

I don't envy the situation Simon Kohler must be in: having to balance - on the one hand - keeping the customer informed, with - on the other - NOT creating an impression that Hornby is not on top of its supply chain problems.

 

I really wonder what my reaction will be when I finally get my models; will I be hypercritical? (as in "I've waited this long for that?") or will I be so pleased to have finally got the £&@&£ model, that I accept whatever comes out of the box uncritically?