Broad street

[31A]

I have posted this before however for those of you who may mae missed it

 

http://youtu.be/FtO7xbyut8U

 

As the layout is no more, maybe RIPper Street would be more appropriate!

 

XF

 

What a pity! Super layout I thought - I might have bought it if I'd known it was being disposed of!

 

AC units did work to Broad Street, but they were 313s running off the 3rd rail; I'dve thought OHLE wouldn't have been stretching the imgination too much, and an interesting 'what if' would be to imagine the workings off the GN via the Canonbury lines had continued post electrification.

[DavidB-AU]

AC units did work to Broad Street, but they were 313s running off the 3rd rail; I'dve thought OHLE wouldn't have been stretching the imgination too much, and an interesting 'what if' would be to imagine the workings off the GN via the Canonbury lines had continued post electrification.

NLR trains used to run from Broad Street to Potters Bar so this isn't much of a stretch. You could imagine 313s and 319s running from Broad Street to Welwyn GC and Hertford North.

 

Cheers

David

[CloggyDog]

Built/finished in something of a hurry to meet a competition deadline, there were some serious flaws with the operational side of the layout which would always be difficult to fully iron out and therefore we felt the layout was not fit to sell on. So the group decided to strip the layout down, recoving pretty much all the scenic details, and then burnt the carcass (bare boards, raised trackbed and track. H&M point motors can be killed with fire and you get some fantastic colours when they burn!)

 

Those recovered fittings will see the light of day in Ripper Street 2, which is in the advanced planning stages and will be built over the coming few years. The ashes of RS1 will also be incorporated, scenically, into RS2!

 

RS2 is likely to be larger (more and longer platforms) and to EM gauge. It will still be set in the 1965-75 period.

 

Such a shame, it was a super layout. Was any effort made to find an alternative home for it? It was fairly compact and I would have thought someone would have wanted to take it on.

 

 

What a pity! Super layout I thought - I might have bought it if I'd known it was being disposed of!

[DavidB-AU]

Excellent news! I always liked watching video of Ripper Street. Shame I never got to see it in the flesh.

 

Cheers
David

[Joseph_Pestell]

If you are imagining a "what if" scenario then the beauty of it is that you are free to let your imagination dictate your reality.

 

Obviously some scenarios are more likely than others. Had Broad Street survived then OHEL is a possibility. Perhaps it could have been used as a terminus for suburban services diverted from Liverpool Street. You could have had a real mix of slam-door EMUs as well as 315s. By the late 80s 317s might have started appearing too.

 

IMHO loco hauled services would be unlikely as most trains on that side of London had switched to multiple unit operation by the 80s. Still perhaps you could have 86s on intercity services from Norwich using Broad Street occasionally if there were engineering works at Liverpool street.

 

You could even think right out the box and imagine that Broad Street had been redeveloped as a terminus for Eurostar and/or the Javelins. A lot depends on how far you want to stretch the facts.

 

In BR days, commuter services from the GN (Class 31 plus loco-hauled stock, later Class 105) ran in to Broad St from Finsbury Park via Canonbury. These followed on from LMS services over the GN which ran with ancient tanks and four-wheel coaches. So there is much better reason for 317s than a link to the Great Eastern.

 

Generally, while it has been quite demanding to put OLE on the North London, it has finally been done and the cost of doing it for a few extra bridges at Dalston is well within the realms of the might-have-been. Mainline services from the LNW (Wolverhampton and Birmingham) ceased in about 1910 but, if it suits the modeller's purpose why not extend that period? After all Thameslink is a revival of services that ceased in 1916 as is part of the Overground (Surrey Docks to Peckham Rye).

 

Would such services have been loco-hauled in the post-electrification era? More questionable. I think it might have tipped the balance in favour of Class 309s being used on the LNW mainline which they nearly were.

[Joseph_Pestell]

In BR days, commuter services from the GN (Class 31 plus loco-hauled stock, later Class 105) ran in to Broad St from Finsbury Park via Canonbury. These followed on from LMS services over the GN which ran with ancient tanks and four-wheel coaches. So there is much better reason for 317s than a link to the Great Eastern.

 

Generally, while it has been quite demanding to put OLE on the North London, it has finally been done and the cost of doing it for a few extra bridges at Dalston is well within the realms of the might-have-been. Mainline services from the LNW (Wolverhampton and Birmingham) ceased in about 1910 but, if it suits the modeller's purpose why not extend that period? After all Thameslink is a revival of services that ceased in 1916 as is part of the Overground (Surrey Docks to Peckham Rye).

 

Would such services have been loco-hauled in the post-electrification era? More questionable. I think it might have tipped the balance in favour of Class 309s being used on the LNW mainline which they nearly were.

OOPS! Just noticed that I made a similar post 18 months ago. Memory getting senile.

[ThePipersSon]

Hi,

 

My sister used to have an office next to the viaduct into the old Broad Street, just south of Shoreditch station (both old and new).  Here's a photo I took on my mobile when they were test running the new Overland route.

 

 

 

Edited to get rid of double picture

[DavidB-AU]

I like the idea of a modern version of Broad St with London Overground 378s. And possibly FCC 313s.

 

Cheers

David

[Pete 75C]

 

RS2 is likely to be larger (more and longer platforms) and to EM gauge. It will still be set in the 1965-75 period.

 

That is great news. I do hope that excellent overall roof was saved and might let a little rain in again one day?

[CloggyDog]

That is great news. I do hope that excellent overall roof was saved and might let a little rain in again one day?

 

It was and there's a second, unbuilt one (Faller 120199) to add to it.

 

Just need to decide if we go with side by side (like Broad St) or end on end.

[Oldddudders]

It was and there's a second, unbuilt one (Faller 120199) to add to it.

 

Just need to decide if we go with side by side (like Broad St) or end on end.

I would suggest side-by-side improves visibility of the models in the station, but still implies a degree of importance. And the plastic passengers can't complain!

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would suggest side-by-side improves visibility of the models in the station, but still implies a degree of importance. And the plastic passengers can't complain!

 

Is the Faller kit detailed enough to let you have the best of both worlds: One shed complete, the other missing all its glazing following attention from Herr Goering? Or perhaps one half with roof and the other with modern canopies (for the same reason as at Holborn Viaduct and Cannon Street)?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Question: Did Baby Deltics (Class 23) also make it to Broad St with GN suburban trains? I think that I have only ever seen pictures of 31s.

[DavidB-AU]

Joseph_Pestell, on 03 Dec 2013 - 22:05, said:

Question: Did Baby Deltics (Class 23) also make it to Broad St with GN suburban trains? I think that I have only ever seen pictures of 31s.

D5905 at Broad Street, 1968.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/9464585736/

 

Cheers

David

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks, David. I thought they would have done.

 

With DJM planning a 23 in N and a new 31 from Farish, a North London diorama style layout is rather tempting.

[DavidB-AU]

Why make it a diorama? Scale Ripper Street down to N and it doesn't take much space.

 

Cheers

David

[Joseph_Pestell]

Why make it a diorama? Scale Ripper Street down to N and it doesn't take much space.

 

Cheers

David

 

True enough. I think that I would want to model Broad St more fully if I was going to run that many different types of train. So I think I would just go for a stretch of 4-track viaduct with maybe a bit of goods yard to add interest and perhaps one of the closed (1940) stations.

 

Also fewer points may allow me to get started with my stock of fiNetrax.

[CloggyDog]

Is the Faller kit detailed enough to let you have the best of both worlds: One shed complete, the other missing all its glazing following attention from Herr Goering? Or perhaps one half with roof and the other with modern canopies (for the same reason as at Holborn Viaduct and Cannon Street)?

 

possibly... I certainly favour the side by side approach, but will have to check the effect on baseboard width and transportation thereof. The glazing on the original RS one was modelled somewhat dilapidated.

 

We are intending to have at least 1 disused platform face (probably the one on the viewing edge, to avoid a repetion of 'the licking incident'...)

 

Question: Did Baby Deltics (Class 23) also make it to Broad St with GN suburban trains? I think that I have only ever seen pictures of 31s.

 

Yes, in the final years (1969/70) of loco-hauled services to/from Broad Street, there was at least one regular EE 2 diagramed train (1755 Cuffley) and a regular Brush 4 diagramed train (1735 Hertford N), the other 6 evening outbound workings being in the capable hands of Brush 2s.

[Joseph_Pestell]

possibly... I certainly favour the side by side approach, but will have to check the effect on baseboard width and transportation thereof. The glazing on the original RS one was modelled somewhat dilapidated.

 

We are intending to have at least 1 disused platform face (probably the one on the viewing edge, to avoid a repetion of 'the licking incident'...)

 

 

Yes, in the final years (1969/70) of loco-hauled services to/from Broad Street, there was at least one regular EE 2 diagramed train (1755 Cuffley) and a regular Brush 4 diagramed train (1735 Hertford N), the other 6 evening outbound workings being in the capable hands of Brush 2s.

 

Must have been a good layout if someone was drooling over it!

 

I had no idea at all that there had been Type 4 (47) power scheduled on the suburban trains. Seems like overkill but all adds interest.

[roythebus]

I remember working a class 31 with suburban stock into Broad Street during my time at Kings Cross, 1975-78, and DMU to there once. most of the DMUs to Broad Street were Rolls Royce engine variants, I forget the class number! They couldn't work to Moorgate as they were too long.

[Dagworth]

to avoid a repetion of 'the licking incident'...)

That's why it needs OLE!

 

(And apart from the Buckley boys it gives me more reason to EM my third rail sparks...)

 

Andi

[keefer]

"most of the DMUs to Broad Street were Rolls Royce engine variants, I forget the class number! They couldn't work to Moorgate as they were too long."

 

that'll be the class 125s, derby suburban hydraulic units on 64' frames. anythin going down the hole to moorgate was 57'

[CloggyDog]

The length restrictions (IIRC) related only to trains from the GN suburban lines (hence the use of Cravens and BR short Suburban Mk1s, both on the 57' underframe) due to restricted clearances around Hotel Curve.

 

Trains from the LMR, however were restricted in height (hence the small batch of Mk1 Subs with wider-spaced ventilators, to bring the overall height down by a few inches) but not length, as the some LMR workings used 64' Class 116 DMUs running as 4 car sets, consisting of a standard 3-car set with an additional motor car, to help tackle the gradients.