LDM34046 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 please help Need to know how to add directional lights to a DCC loco that doesn't have lights!!! anyone with any answers please help!!! MurrayField Junction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2012 Which loco are you thinking of? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If the loco has a main board then there will be solder points for the forwards & backwards lights. Alternatively if it's a diesel I suggest an Express models kit as these have instructions on which wires to join from light kit to chip. Doing it all by hand see a good DCC book as you'll need the white, yellow & blue wires from chip as minimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark K Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 You can use the frame (chassis) in place of the blue. The six pin NEM 651 decoders don't have a blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 If the loco has a main board then there will be solder points for the forwards & backwards lights. OP states that loco doesn't have lights. We really need the OP to tell us which loco and scale for that matter. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDM34046 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 which express kits are sutiable for DCC locos which have directional functions??? I'm planning for an old lima 33 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 37 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 If its an old Lima, have you hard wired the loco? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDM34046 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 yes with a gaugemaster decoder which just arrived today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojic Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hi, Just as a rule of thumb for an eight pin decoder........... Pin 1 - Orange: Motor wire 1 Pin 2 - Yellow: Rear light function: Default setting, operate with “light†of F0 button Pin 3 - Green: Aux 1: Default setting, operate with Function1 button Pin 4 - Black: To track/Loco pickups 1 Pin 5 - Gray: Motor wire 2 Pin 6 - White: Front light function: Default setting, operate with “light†or F0 button Pin 7 - Blue: Common positive wire for all active functions. Pin 8 - Red: To track/Loco pickups. 2 Now the six pin................. ORANGE (1) Motor wire (by convention, right or upper brush of motor) GRAY (2) Motor Wire (by convention, left or lower brush of motor) RED (3) Track power pickup wire (By convention, this wire should be attached to the pickup wire etc that collects power from the RIGHT rail) BLACK (4) Track power pickup wire (By convention, this wire should be attached to the pickup wire etc that collects power from the LEFT rail) WHITE (5) Accessory - Always front Light, switchable usually by F0 by default. (White and yellow are usually also set up to act only in the direction of travel to act as front/rear lights automatically. With good quality decoders the function allocated can be changed if needed). YELLOW (6) Accessory - Always rear light, switched usually by F0 by default. The yellow wire is the negative in any circuit. (White and yellow are usually also set up to act only in the direction of travel to act as front/rear lights automatically. With good quality decoders the function allocated can be changed if needed). You will note that this connector doesn’t include the common blue wire! This done to save space in N scale: You either have to wire lights for half wave operation by connecting one side of the LED or bulb to the white or yellow and the other to the chassis…. This is just a little guide for the wires, when Hard wiring either with the socket or without................. Cannot tell you about the 21 pin, only the if the blanking plate is there (21 pin), you could use the adapter, and vice versa. Hope it helps. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'm not sure which loco the OP is refering to but I plan to hardwire a decoder into an old Mainline Warship that I have. The model as supplied is fitted with diode controlled directional lights - can I just check that used with an 8 pin decoder with plug removed, I don't need the diodes at all, I just wire one lamp to the pin 2 lead, and the other to the pin 6 lead, with the other wires from each lamp connected to the pin 7 lead. Have I got that right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojic Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hi Andyman7, Are you saying that the Mainline loco is DCC Ready? If so, no need to hard wire just plug into the 8 pin socket? You can search on the internet for the correct service sheet for the mainline model. Then you should be able to hardwire a decoder, remember the Black to one side of pick up and Red the other. Orange on one side of motor and the Grey to the other or the lights will not work! Other question Gaugemaster decoder not sure which one you have the DCC20? I understand this has a maximum stall of 2amp (if it is the 9 pin,only difference between the 8 pin is the purple wire). If going for a kit, then wire to the respective coloured wires on the decoder. Should work. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'm not sure which loco the OP is refering to but I plan to hardwire a decoder into an old Mainline Warship that I have. The model as supplied is fitted with diode controlled directional lights - can I just check that used with an 8 pin decoder with plug removed, I don't need the diodes at all, I just wire one lamp to the pin 2 lead, and the other to the pin 6 lead, with the other wires from each lamp connected to the pin 7 lead. Have I got that right? Yes, just make sure that the white wire goes to the bulb that is at the front if the red pickup wire is on the right. This is assuming that the lighting is 12V bulbs, and so doesn't need resistors to drop the voltage. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Yes, just make sure that the white wire goes to the bulb that is at the front if the red pickup wire is on the right. This is assuming that the lighting is 12V bulbs, and so doesn't need resistors to drop the voltage. Yes, but you might want to test it first with a few hundred ohms in series with the white/yellow wire, rather than using a destructive technique to find the bulb voltage Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Er no, it was made in 1980...! There is no socket so the decoder needs hardwiring. The motor is easy, it is the wiring arrangement for the white (forward) directional lights I was seeking confirmation on. I already know the wiring arrangment 'as is' but not with DCC retaining the lights. The original wiring uses diodes to ensure that the lights only work in the direction of travel, but wired as you suggest this would only let the lights work when the model was moving and they wouldn't be independently switchable. I wanted to check whether I could strip ot the original lighting wires and diodes and just take feeds of F2 and F6 to give me independent switchable lights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark K Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If it's directional lighting controlled by diodes (there should be six of them) those bulbs will be 1.5 volts. The output across the white/ yellow and blue will be 12 volts. You need to wire a resistor in series with the common (Blue) wire - the value will vary depending on the wattage of the bulbs but a good starting point is 680 Ohms. Just clarifying that the white and yellow leads are the negatives for the front and rear lights and that the other side of the bulb is either wired to the blue via the resistor or the red or black (doesn't matter which) via the resistor. Mark K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If it's directional lighting controlled by diodes (there should be six of them) those bulbs will be 1.5 volts. With the vintage of the loco, those will be 12v bulbs with a single diode to ensure that they only come on in the correct direction. There should be no problem wiring them directly to the decoder. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If it's directional lighting controlled by diodes (there should be six of them) those bulbs will be 1.5 volts... Is Mark confusing incandescent bulbs with LEDs? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 With the vintage of the loco, those will be 12v bulbs with a single diode to ensure that they only come on in the correct direction. There should be no problem wiring them directly to the decoder. Adrian Yes, they are rated at 12v, the diodes are just wired to ensure the current flows only to the bulb relevant to the direction the loco is travelling in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark K Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The six diode thing has been around for years, but perhaps not here on British outline. It uses the voltage drop across one of the diodes which is around 1.5 volts so that the bulb glows evenly irrespective of engine speed. If it glows brighter when the engine speeds up then this is indeed a 12 volt bulb with a single diode. In that case dump the diode and wire the bulb direct. Mark K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyboy Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I am going to fit directional lighting to my 7mm 108. I had a hard time finding leds. I eventually found these 3mm red/ white http://www.unique-leds.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=1972 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 If it glows brighter when the engine speeds up then this is indeed a 12 volt bulb with a single diode. In that case dump the diode and wire the bulb direct. Mark K But beware DCC systems that use a very high track voltage. Even bulbs need a current limit resistor in some applications to avoiod short life. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 'European' Model Railway manufacturers, at least, have been fitting '16V' bulbs as standard for many years, so as to have improved digital compatibility.... so old 12V failed bulbs are replaced with the equivalent 16V ... or better still, changed to LEDs with appropriate resistors 8-) The Roco Transformer-(Multi)mous and Amplifier combination, as supplied for many years is a classic example of 'unregulated transformer output' passing through to the track, and making bulb coach lighting, in particular, noticeably brighter when there is no voltage drop due to traind movement. This is now replaced by a Switched Mode Power Supply with regulated DC output (18V), which gives about 16V dcc on track .... which after further rectification in a decoder, gives a decoder voltage of about 14V and perhaps a maximum motor voltage of 12V after the H-bridge at 'full speed'. For comparison: old Triang Controllers were labelled as 14Vdc output .. for 'notional' 12V ... in a similar way to car batteries notionally being 12V giving a maximum of 14.4V approx., and my H&M gives a very unsmoothed '12V' of around 20V or more, off load Nowadays, when changing old models to LED lighting, I find the current generaton of LEDs to be very much more effiicent than earlier LEDs....so a 1K resistor is frequently insuffiicent to dim the Lights enough. 2 can usuually be wired in series, but this is not possible with 'Common Anode Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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