RMweb Gold TravisM Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 Was looking on wnxx.com yesterday and it would seem that two class 31's are moving to RVEL at Derby to have trip cock equipment fitted. No other information was given but I wonder if they are NR ones? Makes me wonder, are the class 20's that deliver S stock and the GBRf class 66's that do engineering work on LUL, also fitted? If you model up to date Underground like I do, it gives you a excuse to run a class 31. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 Don't know about 31s, but our Switch & Crossing Rail Grinder EU1 is so equipped Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 BR locos, including 31s, have carried tripcock equipment previously - as revealed in this thread , including at least one useful contribution from an RMwebber. http://www.districtdavesforum.co.uk/index.cgi?board=History&action=display&thread=13900 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted May 21, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 Finsbury Park class 31's and Craven's 105's were fitted for working the City Widened Lines (CWL) back in the 60's and 70's. Chiltern Trains 165's and their green Sandite class 117 are all fitted for working over the Met line north of Harrow on the Hill. Not sure about their class 121's though. Still interested how the class 20's and GBRf class 66's work over LUL without trip cocks! On my layout, I plan to run a Bachmann NR Windhoff MPV, the synopsis is that it is being tested for work on LUL. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 Finsbury Park class 31's and Craven's 105's were fitted for working the City Widened Lines (CWL) back in the 60's and 70's. Chiltern Trains 165's and their green Sandite class 117 are all fitted for working over the Met line north of Harrow on the Hill. Not sure about their class 121's though. Still interested how the class 20's and GBRf class 66's work over LUL without trip cocks, the old metronet 66s didnt have them when i used to drive them On my layout, I plan to run a Bachmann NR Windhoff MPV, the synopsis is that it is being tested for work on LUL. Julian Sprott chiltern 168s have them too, the 67s dont though, im sure the 20s have them fitted. will have a look through my LUL rules but im sure that if you dont have a tripcock fitted unit/loco you have to be accompanied by an lul MOM (or their equivalent) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 When it was first announced that Class 66 and main line wagons would be used for engineering on Metronet, it was said that they would not be tripcock fitted and they would run under possession all the way from the NR/LU connection through to the worksite. This seemed a particularly inefficient way of working considering the distance some of the trains would have to travel, presumably at reduced speed, and the fact that only 4-5hr are available each night to bring the plant in, do the job and get them out again. Then again the sub-surface lines are currently in transition to a new control system and if all goes to plan service trains won't need tripcocks in five years time. I don't know if there is any arrangement to allow tripcock-fitted engineering trains to run outside a possession or whether they would need the new control system fitting as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 will have a look through my LUL rules but im sure that if you dont have a tripcock fitted unit/loco you have to be accompanied by an lul MOM (or their equivalent) "A tripcock must be fitted to run in traffic hours. The LUL Senior Operating Officer can issue a waiver to this if they could justify it". I guess it all comes down to what constitutes grounds for a waiver given that situations vary ie it's prob down to a risk assessment for any given 'new working'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 AFAIK the 20's are not tripcock fitted, BUT are driven by LUL crew Amersham-Neasden-West Ruislip and not by GBRf crew. This of course is rather different from the railtours of old, Sercos, and other odd-ball workings which wouldn't have had LUL crews driving the locos. There is presumably an LUL operating practice* to cover these workings and there does always seem to be a number of blokes in the cab (at least on the S stock delivery runs). *Trains seem to run with exactly the same LU headcode on each occasion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 When it was first announced that Class 66 and main line wagons would be used for engineering on Metronet, it was said that they would not be tripcock fitted and they would run under possession all the way from the NR/LU connection through to the worksite. This seemed a particularly inefficient way of working considering the distance some of the trains would have to travel, presumably at reduced speed, and the fact that only 4-5hr are available each night to bring the plant in, do the job and get them out again. Lots of that seems to be done in weekend blockades rather than the traditional overnight windows though so presumably less of an impact there? Don't think it's been mentioned yet but a handful of DB Schenker 66s are tripcock fitted, visibly with some extra plumbing on the nose and some bogie bits... http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/Locos/66019-EWS-Tripcock-fitted/ Looking through my pics 66019 had it added sometime between Feb 2010 and Oct 2011? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Lots of that seems to be done in weekend blockades rather than the traditional overnight windows though so presumably less of an impact there? I guess so, though you'd think it was an obvious thing to fit them with tripcocks when the Underground is under pressure to minimise closures ... especially as your photos prove it's possible! I agree a 66, probably speed restricted, wouldn't exactly be welcome in the peak hour but wouldn't they be able to fit one in between the final few trains in the evening or the first few in the morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 You'd think it would give a bit more flexibility certainly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstock Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is pure speculation, but maybe the C stock units will be rail hauled away for their scrapping contract? It still seems ludicrous they are taking A stock away by road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 AFAIK the 20's are not tripcock fitted, BUT are driven by LUL crew Amersham-Neasden-West Ruislip and not by GBRf crew. This of course is rather different from the railtours of old, Sercos, and other odd-ball workings which wouldn't have had LUL crews driving the locos. There is presumably an LUL operating practice* to cover these workings and there does always seem to be a number of blokes in the cab (at least on the S stock delivery runs). *Trains seem to run with exactly the same LU headcode on each occasion. i should hazard a guess that the gbrf crews are not passed in LUL rules, or possibly they may be in a similar position to myself where they get a diluted version of the rules for working over the parts of the line that have NR style signalling for example i am only passed to work the fast lines from moor park to harrow as the signalling is of conventional practice (bar the missing aws), the slows have full blown london underground signalling which is alien to me, and quite scary looking, green straight to a red, no thank you!! cstock, i should imagine the problem with moving the stock out by rail is the same as bringing it in, being as its 45mph max i should imagine pathing is a nightmare, and its got to go the extra distance to rotherham past derby, admittedly it could take a lot of freight lines but it would still take a while! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 It turns out I was wrong about the 20's - I've just had it confirmed from one of the owing group of one of the 20's they ARE tripcock fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2012 On the subject of moving them by road. This has to be done because of their width, they are amongst the widest stock in the UK being 9' 9" wide. When they were delivered it was not a problem as the Great Central line which had the necessary clearances over which they were delivered was still open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2012 On the subject of moving them by road. This has to be done because of their width, they are amongst the widest stock in the UK being 9' 9" wide. When they were delivered it was not a problem as the Grand Central line which had the necessary clearances over which they were delivered was still open. Might that be Great Central? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted May 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2012 Might that be Great Central? Oops! duly amended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Coincidentally 66017 and 66019 have apparently been out and about today with a test train via Amersham... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 Coincidentally 66017 and 66019 have apparently been out and about today with a test train via Amersham... And yesterday as well. It's probably the problems with getting things rostered that's driven the need to get NR 31's fitted. There are only 3 DBS 66's (001,017,019) fitted with tripcocks. This week is the 3rd attempt to get locos and crews with route knowledge and test coaches all in the same place and time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 This week is the 3rd attempt to get locos and crews with route knowledge and test coaches all in the same place and time! the joys of the modern joined up railway, there are guys at chiltern with the route knowledge and a few of us used to sign 66s but we cant keep them on our cards otherwise the train could have been conducted or driven by us! nice to see them yesterday though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted May 23, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 And yesterday as well. It's probably the problems with getting things rostered that's driven the need to get NR 31's fitted. There are only 3 DBS 66's (001,017,019) fitted with tripcocks. This week is the 3rd attempt to get locos and crews with route knowledge and test coaches all in the same place and time! Any pictures taken of the test train or the stock used? Be great to model it on my layout. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 66.019 leading, High Wycombe 21May12 66.017 leading Wendover 21May12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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