Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 it wasn't Widnes Vines Yard I was thinking about (although that's also excellent and wastelandy) it was Elwood East http://www.rmweb.co....c-very-average/ which is amazing, and pretty derelict but in a really cool way - its what I was aiming for with Gresby and didn't quite manage...! Your layout is still fantastic none the less! Just checked out Elwood East, looks very good but a bit too derelict for me I think. I want to go for a modern, typical busy'ish' type of look. Came up with this earlier.... It looks very busy and too crammed but that's just because there is lots of arrows and labels... Regarding the "?????" area I was thinking of just having a derelict, overgrown area with tall grass and lots of weeds or maybe a sort of car park place for all the network rail vans etc. What do you think? (Any other ideas would be much appreciated.) Thanks very much, MNG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Looking good oli, Love the new plan fella Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 ???????? area could perhaps be part of the old goods yard with a dilapidated and derelict goods shed all overgrown (line access having been from under the station building, the yard lines terminating before the curves at the left of the layout.) is the car park going to be accessed from the main road but multi story coming down to baseboard level? think that would add some good interest in front of the retaining wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 ???????? area could perhaps be part of the old goods yard with a dilapidated and derelict goods shed all overgrown (line access having been from under the station building, the yard lines terminating before the curves at the left of the layout.) is the car park going to be accessed from the main road but multi story coming down to baseboard level? think that would add some good interest in front of the retaining wall. Thanks for the comment Black Sheep, that's actually really weird you say that... I had that idea a while back but didn't really like it that much (sort of thought it there is room for a derelict one then why not have a real one...) Regarding the 'green' car park area, that will be accessed by an imaginary road, that is why the tunnel mouth it there. Will probably paint the inside black and chop a car in half or something to make it look like it goes somewhere... Thanks, Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 i'd expect an access road exist between the elevated road and the car park, but I guess not always - the access to the car park through the tunnel mouth would, I guess be the tunnel that was for the rail access to the goods yard - the reason for not having a working yard is lack of space and getting track to access it while retaining a look of being prototypical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I could add an access road from upper road but then this would mean less space for the actual car park... Yeah I see what you mean about the shed, might drag that plan out again later, Thanks, Oli ----------------------------------------- (I will apologise in advance for the poor quality size of the pictures - had to compress them all so they uploaded quickly) Have glued both my tracks down now so we have this: Also added in the extra sleeper so there is no gap, wasn't TOO fiddly lol: Have attached some pictures to show the order in which I did things (just in case anyone is interested lol) - DOUBLE SIDED TAPE DOWN IN INTERVALS - ADD PVA GLUE IN-BETWEEN THE TAPE - USE THE PECO WAY GAUGE TO ENSURE THE TRACKS ARE EQUAL DISTANCES APART - CHECKED THEY WERE IN LINE - REMOVED THE EXCESS GLUE - ADDED THE 2 WEIGHTS (MOVED THEM EVERY TWO HOURS) - AFTER 24 HOURS REMOVED THE WEIGHTS AND CLEANED THE TRACK My next job is to ballast the tracks (unless anyone can think of something else...) Was going to purchase a ballast spreader from somewhere, not sure where though - any recommendations...? And are there any recommendations regarding the actual ballast, any N gaugers' out there got any preferred brand or colour...? Thanks for reading, Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jon Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Make sure that you give the track a good hoover after using that rubber. Those types have a tendency to leave bits behind which can cause havoc to the small mechanisms particularly in N guage stuff. I'd second the idea of a multi-storey carpark with access from the upper roadway next to the station, or even off of the station layby. Many multi-storey carparks have very little actual space between the walls and the next floor up so are really easy to make out of card. Just include the up/down ramps (don't need to create holes except for the top level if it is an open top one) and an enclosed bit for the stairs/lifts between floors. If you want to show off some of the cars that you have or will acquire then go with an open top example otherwise just stick a roof on with a small room for the lift winding gear and add general clutter to it. I'd also second the idea of a disused goods shed in that space. You can even leave a wagon or two in there if you were planning on some practice weathering. When they were lifting the tracks just outside of Barking on the LTS line there were a number of wagons that hadn't been removed by the time the track removal crews had turned up. So they removed the track not occupied by wagons and just left the rest sitting on unconnected track. It also lets you use the track offcuts to bulk out the scenery since you can model the rest of it seriously overgrown. Edit: As for ballast (sorry forgot this bit) I've had some success with the modellers mate ultra-fine stuff. It's really, really fine. Almost a powder but for best results it is a little harder to lay. If you do the normal eye-dropper (ask at the pharmacy counter in Boots or similar, they're about £1) thing it tends to blend together and give a semi-smooth finish rather than looking like ballast. Instead paint some PVA where you want it and then sprinkle it on (I use a folded piece of card onto which I spoon a small amount - this prevents the dust from accumulating at the sprinkle end but I suppose you could scoop with one end and sprinkle from the other..... *doh*). When looking at ballast in the model shop remember that 0.5mm is still 3" at scale so you'd want the largest pieces being this size with most a little smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks for the reply the_jon. Will make sure I give the track a hoover. I only really used that track rubber because the weights left behind some pretty bad black marks on the rail surface. For normal maintainence track cleaning I use the DCC Supplies track cleaning fluid -recommended by DevonDynosoar- and some kitchen towel (need to get some lint free cloth though) Hmmmm, multi-storey car park does sound like a pretty cool idea, didn't realise that was what blacksheep meant.... Although from having a quick look around on Google I can't seem to find any pre-made ones apart from a Japanese one around $80 and one by Bachman for £44! (http://www.ehattons....tockDetail.aspx) So as you say that would mean having to make my own, but to be honest I am terrible at scratch-building, not really my area of expertise lol - then again, what is! I managed to find that earlier plan that had the disused shed, some of the design features are different because this is from an older design... Not sure how I could fit this in with the new design idea including the multi-storey, maybe I could have some really old rusty rails next to the multi-storey leading into a bordered up tunnel entrance and make it look like the multi-storey was built after the shed area was closed (not really the correct word... ughhhhh, can't thing of a better one lol ) Yes old, disused wagons would be a good practice for weathering, although I do not own an airbrush. Funny you should say that: "It also lets you use the track offcuts to bulk out the scenery since you can model the rest of it seriously overgrown" because I saved all the offcuts from my practice plank because I was originally going to have a disused loco shed on there but now the plan has changed. Thanks for the advice on the ballast, will have to look into that stuff, never heard of it before. Thanks again, Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 looking good fella... Ive always used woodland scene's fine ballast on my layouts ive built. Never used the spreader, so cant really say much on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 looking good fella... Ive always used woodland scene's fine ballast on my layouts ive built. Never used the spreader, so cant really say much on it. Thanks porkie, where can you get the woodland ballast from, do they have an online shop... looked for N gauge ballast in my local model shop the other night and surprisingly I didn't see any! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jon Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 For weathering you really don't *need* an airbrush, it can certainly help and definitely makes things a little easier but there are many ways to do it without. Personally I prefer weathering powders over paints (no real reason, I just find them easier to use for the effect I'm after) which can be applied with a cotton bud or paint brush and can be used dry or wet. If you apply them dry to the approx area you can then use a damp cotton bud/brush to smear it around, if it's applied wet then you can control the consistency from goopy to skimmed milk. An alternative is to grab a couple of small spray cans and either mist from a distance if coating a large area or bounce the spray off of the ground in front of it. The bounce technique is particularly good for doing underframes. Basically you place the item on a piece of card/wood and spray from close range down onto the card/wood just in front of the model. Some of the paint will bounce back up onto the model that way. As for scratch-building..... You'll never know until you give it a try. The cool thing about a multi-storey carpark is that it is effecively a box. Grab some cardboard and a sharp modelling knife, decide on a hieght between each floor (I've seen pretty much everything from 7' to about 10' with newer ones being the larger - so anything from about 15mm to 22mm should work) and mark those out. Then mark out and cut a strip from about halfway up each floor to just below the next floor leaving some parts all the way up (these will form the supports). You'd only need to do 2 sides for the most part since you would be backing it against retaining walls on the other two sides. Give it all a quick spray with some primer and then coat with a concrete-ish colour paint. Scorpion Green from Games Workshop isn't a bad base, you can then streak with dirt and stuff for weathering. That's pretty much it. You won't need to worry particularly about internal detailing because most of it will be really dark anyway so you could leave it completely empty inside or place a few internal supporting columns inside. Some round or square section "stuff" approx. 5mm in diameter should work. Where to get the card? You're a student right? That means you should have some A4 pads of paper around, the backing card to those is approx. 1mm thick and is great for making building shells out of, especially if you're just trying something out. For thinner card (if you want to create so raised areas on the outer walls) then the trusty ceral packets come in handy. So you'll likely have all the stuff you need to have a go laying around. I've been doing some practice stuff recently and it's amazing what ignorance and bravery can acheive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 For some odd reason, my local hobby craft store stocks it. If you want an online shops, I cant recomend hattons enough Oli http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000484/1000594/1000714/0/Woodland_Scenics_Any_or_multiple_scales_Scenic_items_Natural_Minerals_water_rocks/prodlist.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 yeh, sorry, I meant a multi story, one entrance can come through the tunnel that was the entrance to the goods yard, and the top deck be about level (a ramp might be needed) to the road. Scale Scenes are releasing one later this year that's modular so you can build it to the shape you want - a good back up plan for if your scratch built attempts don't work out - although it's hard to go wrong on it as I've never seen two multi story car parks that look the same! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 For some odd reason, my local hobby craft store stocks it. If you want an online shops, I cant recomend hattons enough Oli http://www.ehattons....s/prodlist.aspx Thanks for the link Porkie, they look good - might by a few bags to see which colour I like best. Although just noticed they say "any scales" so surely wont this be too big and unrealistic for N gauge, even if it's OO gauge fine, that would be like N gauge extra coarse wouldn't it - or am I missing something. I just always thought there was specific ballast for N gauge, or is it just refered to as "fine"? Thanks, Oli yeh, sorry, I meant a multi story, one entrance can come through the tunnel that was the entrance to the goods yard, and the top deck be about level (a ramp might be needed) to the road. Scale Scenes are releasing one later this year that's modular so you can build it to the shape you want - a good back up plan for if your scratch built attempts don't work out - although it's hard to go wrong on it as I've never seen two multi story car parks that look the same! Oh look forward to that - have just looked at their website, there is no set date yet for release but should be a while until I am ready for it anyway. Never used a scale scenes kit before, they any good? Heard a few people say they can be a bit complicated. Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 For weathering you really don't *need* an airbrush, it can certainly help and definitely makes things a little easier but there are many ways to do it without. Personally I prefer weathering powders over paints (no real reason, I just find them easier to use for the effect I'm after) which can be applied with a cotton bud or paint brush and can be used dry or wet. If you apply them dry to the approx area you can then use a damp cotton bud/brush to smear it around, if it's applied wet then you can control the consistency from goopy to skimmed milk. An alternative is to grab a couple of small spray cans and either mist from a distance if coating a large area or bounce the spray off of the ground in front of it. The bounce technique is particularly good for doing underframes. Basically you place the item on a piece of card/wood and spray from close range down onto the card/wood just in front of the model. Some of the paint will bounce back up onto the model that way. As for scratch-building..... You'll never know until you give it a try. The cool thing about a multi-storey carpark is that it is effecively a box. Grab some cardboard and a sharp modelling knife, decide on a hieght between each floor (I've seen pretty much everything from 7' to about 10' with newer ones being the larger - so anything from about 15mm to 22mm should work) and mark those out. Then mark out and cut a strip from about halfway up each floor to just below the next floor leaving some parts all the way up (these will form the supports). You'd only need to do 2 sides for the most part since you would be backing it against retaining walls on the other two sides. Give it all a quick spray with some primer and then coat with a concrete-ish colour paint. Scorpion Green from Games Workshop isn't a bad base, you can then streak with dirt and stuff for weathering. That's pretty much it. You won't need to worry particularly about internal detailing because most of it will be really dark anyway so you could leave it completely empty inside or place a few internal supporting columns inside. Some round or square section "stuff" approx. 5mm in diameter should work. Where to get the card? You're a student right? That means you should have some A4 pads of paper around, the backing card to those is approx. 1mm thick and is great for making building shells out of, especially if you're just trying something out. For thinner card (if you want to create so raised areas on the outer walls) then the trusty ceral packets come in handy. So you'll likely have all the stuff you need to have a go laying around. I've been doing some practice stuff recently and it's amazing what ignorance and bravery can acheive Wow thanks for the very detailed reply the_jon, is your name Jon if you don't mind me asking, would makes things easier lol. How much is a decent airbrush? I am led to believe they can be quite expensive, especially once you get all the neccesary equipment to go with them. Will have to check out these 'weathering powders and paint' - never seen them before, will have a look around my local model shop one night after school (was planning on getting some bits tomorrow night but I have a last minute hockey training session ready for our tournament next week!) Liking the sound of that bouncing technique, sounds quite fun lol! As for scratch-building..... You'll never know until you give it a try. Yes, you are right, will never know until I try it - have heard that before lol (mainly to do with brussel sprouts!) I suppose it is like a box when you think about it. Going to sound like a right dumbo now but here it goes... how do you convert real life measurements (like 7' and 10') to N gauge (15mm to 25mm) as you gave me? Might end up making a practice Multi-storey and using it on my practice plank lol. Out of interest, what is Plastikard like? I've seen many people use it for scratch building things, found this website earlier, recognise the name Slaters... (https://slatersplastikard.com/) Thanks for the recommendation on the paints, will have to look them up on their website... And yes I am a student lol, although I don't have any A4 notepads lying around - but I do know what you mean. Will maybe ask if I can have some from school, there is loads there. Now then, cereal packets, I definitely have a lot of them around.... Thanks very much for all the help, will come in really handy, Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just checked my bits and bobs, Ive been using a fine and medium grey blend on my new layout if that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRModeller Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 ... how do you convert real life measurements (like 7' and 10') to N gauge (15mm to 25mm) as you gave me? ... Hi Oli. You've probably heard/read about the scales that we all work to e.g. 1/76 for OO and 1/148 for N right? All you've got to do is divide the real life measurement by whatever scale you are working to, in your case N gauge so, if something was 7.4m long, divide that by 148 and you get 50mm. Don't quote me incase i'm wrong but, I'm pretty sure the same applies to feet and inches. Other members on here will be able to verify this. Whatever measurement system you use, you are going to get some 'scaled down' measurements come up as decimal places. Whether you want to round up or down to the nearest whole number or build the structure as acurate as possible, that's up to you. I can probably speak for most modellers when I say I take the easy option and round up or down Hope this helps. Matt. EDIT: forgot to say that your layout and plank are looking good and am enjoying watching them progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hi, I know it sounds a bit lazy, but rather than using 1/148 its much easier to scratchbuild buildings to 2mm to a foot... so a 6'5 doorway would be 13mm high - its what I used on Gresby and it seems to look OK (but I'm not very good with metric for anything longer than a foot...) Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2012 Before you ballast you want to test the track. Faults are much easier to fix before ballasting than after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 you can get scale rulers which allow you to just measure a few feet as though you were measuring mm instead of having mm and inches up the ruler it has scale feet and meters, i've got one, quite useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jon Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hey Oli, Yeah, I'm a Jon. As MrSimon I tend to just use 2mm = 1' most of the time. Although if it's for something larger like buildings i'll tend to work it out properly(ish). I also tend towards feet and inches for sizes but prefer to use mm when measuring stuff out just because it's the finer scale on my rule. So typically it'd go something like this: Small terraced house width: nominally 14 foot = (14*12) 168 inches = (168 / 148) 1.135135(135)* to scale in inches = (1.135 * 25.041) 28.4249mm to scale = 29mm rounded up I usually round up as quite often things can be a little overscale when you purchase them so it looks more in keeping. Thankfully my keyboard has a button to bring up the calculator so it's a fairly simple process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ahhh I see, thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated! Thanks for looking Porkie, will order a few bags tomorrow night after I test my track - thanks Kris for pointing that out. And thank you very much for the help and the kind comment QRModeller, how's your layout coming along...? Thanks for the tip blacksheep, where can I find these sort of rulers? And finally, thank you Jon, very helpful indeed - will probably end up making 2 or 3 of these things - maybe a practice go to trial everything. Then a more serious attempt to go on my practice plank and finally, what will hopefully be my best attempt on the final layout. Would you recommend me using the card and cereal packets for the final or just a practice? Because, I was thinking about using Plastikard, although not used it before so need some tips on what it is like to work with... Thanks again everybody! Don't know what I would do without you all - and RMweb for that matter.... Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 mine came from Antics in coventry via mail order - 02476 551155 you'll need a card to pay over the phone and they'll send it out to you (they normally take the order then call you for payment when it's arrived in store as they have to order these in), think it was about £5 plus a couple of quid postage which isn't bad for a 30 cm steel ruler (which is what it is but with scale measurements on) Tell them its one of the Expo ones code 741-02 the ones I saw on E-bay were much shorter, with mine I can measure out the full width of the hotel front I'm working on (usual disclaimer of just a happy customer etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRModeller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hi Oli, no problem. I'm in the same boat as you layout wise, my main layout is on hold while I build a shunting plank for a bit of practise. Regarding scale rulers, steel ones like what Black Sheep has suggested are ideal, but if you're unable to get one or you want to start building while waiting for an ordered one to arrive, Scalescenes (usual disclaimer) have scale rulers available as a free pdf here. You can mount these onto card and cut them out or just hold the edge of whatever you are measuring onto the page. Matt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Thanks Matt, will have to check out your shunting plank. Have downloaded and printed one off, stuck it to some coco-pops packaging lol! Actually quite fun measuring things and seeing what size they would be in N gauge, apparently my iPod is 17m and my computer screen is around 80m! Thanks, Oli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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