FraserL Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hi fellow modellers, I am new to the forum having recently come back to the hobby for the first time since my childhood. I am working on a n gauge terminus to fidle yard project and will try and publish some pictures soon of my progress for all that are interested. I have been experiencing a rather frustrating (and expensive) problem in the development of my layout. I am using N Gauge Peco Settrack points (Code 80), which I bought brand new and have been experiencing a problem where the area of plastic where the spring is connected to breaks up. This is the plastic at the opening of the point (not the tie bar itself). This has happened to all of these points after about 1-2 months of use. The problem starts to appear with the spring becoming weaker and not snapping into place the same. Eventually either the tabs which house the spring pop up and break or the plastic in the centre breaks away from the plastic on the outside of the rails, rendering the spring and point useless. This has happened to points which are controlled by hand and also some controlled by Seep Motors. I am unsure what is causing the issue, the only thing I can think of is that the spring is too strong and is pushing away from the tie bar against the plastic housing and causing it to break. If that is the case though then that would point towards a design flaw in these points and surely others would have experienced this same problem? To date I have had to replace 10 sets of points which is both expensive and inconvenient since I'm having to lift track. I have contacted Peco regarding the problem but have received no response. I would like to understand what is causing this so that I can avoid it happening again. I would be very grateful for any advice or ideas on the problem that anyone can give me. Hopefully my description of the problem is clear enough. If need be I can post a picture of one of the broken points. Thanks, Fraser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 How long ago did you contact Peco? I ahve found them to be quite reasonable, try SENDING them a broken point, with covering letter, signed for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 What are you using to keep the track in place? Have you ballasted the track, and if so, what did you use? Probably nothing in this but it might be something specific that you've used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 I contacted Peco about a month ago. I will try sending them a broken point for their comments. At the moment the track hasn't been ballasted. It is held in place using Peco track fixing pins. I have used Track Magic solution to clean the track, but it says on the bottle that it's safe to use around plastic parts. Other than that can't think of anything specific or different that I've used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 How did you contact them? I'd try telephone at first, then go to mail, recorded/signed for. E-mail is not my favourite......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 By email Jeff. Will try calling them too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Given the length of time those things have been in production the number of them produced, the number of modellers who must have used them, and that this is the first report I've ever seen of multiple failures in this way, I think we can safely say it's not a design flaw. If there had been a fundamental issue with the design we would have had many more reports from other users by now... That leaves two possibilities: A production or materials fault affecting just one batch (if this was the case Peco would be likely to have recieved other reports about them) User error or misuse. - You say they weren't glued down so that eliminates solvents in the glue, but where did you put the track pins - did you use only the marked pinholes? hammering pins through elsewhere could have strained things in the wrong place. Any cleaning solvents used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Could you post some pictures of the breakage here? HAve you tried going back via the shop you bought them from too? The shop is normally the first contact anyway if they are only a couple of months old and may also have a Peco rep they could check with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 By email Jeff. Will try calling them too I've recently been using e-mail a LOT to contact possible suppliers for my project. What I've found is that some don't respond at ALL and others can take as much as four weeks to respond. I DO think that those that haven't responded have probably had my e-mail delivered straight to their spam/junk folder, since my e-mail is a hotmail adress, or the other is a jumble of letters and numbers that DO mean something to me, but maybe not to a spam filter? Best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks everyone for your help so far. I have attached a picture which shows one of the points which has broken for apparently no reason (although I know there will be a reason!) I can confirm that the pins were only placed through the standard holes on the track. The points which are breaking have come from more than one shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 You are using the lfine PECO track pins, aren't you? The ones that are done by Hornby are short and fat and don't go through the holes properly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yes Peco Track Pins - the n gauge ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks everyone for your help so far. I have attached a picture which shows one of the points which has broken for apparently no reason (although I know there will be a reason!) I can confirm that the pins were only placed through the standard holes on the track. The points which are breaking have come from more than one shop. I have to say, I've only seen one broken like that before. That was due to being worked by an H&M point motor which weren't known for being gentle! It does look to me like the plastic has fractured and most likely cause of that is undue force applied... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Can't think of anything that would have put any undue force on the points. The points that have broke were operated by seep pm-1 motors and some of the others by hand only. Could the fractures be caused by locomotive wheels or derailings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Is it possible that pushing the rail joiner on a bit too far might have started this crack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 That did occur to me, but I'm mainly using Peco settrack which comes with the fishplates already in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2012 Are the points that are breaking in the same locations? It might be that you are applying excessive force when putting the points into existing plain line. It might be that you put the diverging connections on first, then lift the track vertically as far as you can in order to connect the plain line leading to the point. Could it be that the angle at which the plain line connects to the heel end of the point is causing damage as you push the point downwards in order to push the rail joiners on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Can't think of anything that would have put any undue force on the points. The points that have broke were operated by seep pm-1 motors and some of the others by hand only. Could the fractures be caused by locomotive wheels or derailings? Unfortunately, by the sounds of things you've got hold of a duff batch of points (a Friday afternoon production run) with a weakness in the sleeper base. Further, Seep motors in my experience are rather aggressive in action and their continued use on a small unit like this (with intrinsic weakness) could be detrimental, especially if the motor and activating pin are not correctly aligned below the point tiebar; you mentioned that the switch blades were not snapping back properly onto the stock rails; as the plastic base is coming loose then the spring it is attached to is effectively useless. The forceful action of the switch rails hammering the ends of the stock rail could cause the plastic sleeper base to crack, even if activated manually without the seep motors. Peco points are made with quite a brittle plastic anyway so they always need handling with great care. I had some OO gauge ones that had the same problem as yours. Cheers Simon PS - one other thought, but probably irrelevant; has any form of loco lubricant come into contact with the sleepers? Mineral based oils will attack this type of plastic. Specially formulated model railway oil must be used to avoid damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserL Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hi, Yes it's pretty much the same location on the point where each one has broken. For lube I've only used the Peco Lube (PL-64) which may have come into contact with the sleepers. Should that be safe enough or could it cause any problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Personally I blame the track pinning - even if you use the holes provided it is very easy to use a hammer to bash them in - they were designed to be used on the old fashioned , and frankly useless, Sundeala fibre board. That material is so soft you can push the pins in with just your fingers. If you are using a baseboard material more accepted as the norm you will be hammering these pins in. This no only them going in at an angle and upsetting the track geometry but also a hit on the sleeper, or the track or even pushing the sleeper through as you attempt to disguise the ugly pin head. The next thing to check is that the track is perfectly level if there is any undulation in the baseboard put that right first. These are precision engineered and I have never heard of a failure like this though in years gone by I have wrecked quite a number trying to recover them from old layouts. I would also caution attaching point motors direct to these points and would drive them through the pin only with very careful alignment. As mentioned above solenoids can be a bit viscous and if misaligned will twist the tie bar. But you say this is happening on manual operated points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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