Hayfields turnout workbench

[hayfield]

M2510.PDF

 

M2512.PDF

 

 

Peter

 

Thank you very detailed and helpful and am I correct in thinking its for flatbottom track?

 

 

This may be a bit clearer as it shows the rails without any other bits in the way. There is a definite bend from the set point, you can then see the plaining or the switch blades up to the stock gauge which is where the plaining ends.

 

The main point is to keep the switch blade in gauge (16.5 in 00) then ensure the stock rail (which is bent) is in gauge with the other switch blade when setting the other switch blade

 

Its a gauge 3 B switch just for clarity, hopes the previous and this diagram helps, thanks again Pete much appreciated  

[trisonic]

I agree with you, John.  Martin must have a much better hammer technique than mine - which is very hit and miss...............sic

 

Best, Pete.

[martin_wynne]

I agree with you, John.  Martin must have a much better hammer technique than mine - which is very hit and miss...............sic

 

 

Use a small pin hammer. Allow it to fall under its own weight for consistent results.

 

If the resulting bends are too severe, move the underlying support rails closer together. With only a small gap between them, say one rail width, it requires a sharp tap to make a bend. The drawing perhaps shows the gap too wide:

 

 

Thanks to Rod Cameron for this photo, showing the prototype set in the stock rail:

 

 

 

And to Mick Nicholson for this one:

 

 

 

More information about sets and joggles here: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_postx.php?post_id=8209

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Guest bri.s]

Thankyou guys for the great explanation and diagrams I'll be trying these techniques in my next builds

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[trisonic]

That’s the photo from Rod Cameron that really illustrates the “set”. I think Martin has published that before on RMWeb. Thanks, Martin.

 

John, have you reviewed an 00-SF turnout recently? It may be fun to re-visit with the current interest.....

 

Best, Pete.

[hayfield]

That’s the photo from Rod Cameron that really illustrates the “set”. I think Martin has published that before on RMWeb. Thanks, Martin.

 

John, have you reviewed an 00-SF turnout recently? It may be fun to re-visit with the current interest.....

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

Pete

 

Don't tell Ravenser but I have just finished some 00 universal turnouts and the slip (a few replies back ) they do work well. now on to a couple of EM gauge turnouts or 00-sf +2  as its now known  .

 

I will be building/teaching some 00sf turnouts for the clubs new layout Belmont (LNWR/LMS) very soon. Its a small exhibition layout based on the Harrow to Stanmore branch in the 30's. As the trackwork needs to be bullet proof I have advised the use of Exactoscale parts including the fastrack bases and plastic timbers. Trying to get some members to build the turnouts under supervision, but only one reluctant taker (everyone's got their own jobs, baseboards, buildings etc) Even going for the housing contractors own narrow gauge line. 

 

 

 

 

This was one of the early sketches, much the same now but thrashing out a few ideas at both ends. The bridge and walkway was a very prominent part of the station with a facing crossover under the walkway/bridge. The other end is a problem as its open land. Any recommendations on point roding/signal runs please as the Wills ones are a bit thick to my mind.

 

Will post the build and if anyone is interested our club night is Thursday and we meet in North Watford/Garston, anyone interested in joining in or just visiting please PM me.  I think that's what you are asking in a rather roundabout reply  

[trisonic]

I’d be there but for the Atlantic being in the way.......

 

Best, Pete.

[hayfield]

As thought there were a few tweaks to the track work tonight, slight adjustments at both ends and a catch point to be added. A half size mock up has been started and I have a pupil who is eager to start, By Thursday I will have revised plans for both ends and a full size plan on a building board for placing the timbers to commence that evening.

 

Another member is looking into point rodding and signal wire equipment from the Scalefour Society, I am at a bit of a loss with this stuff so any advice will be welcome

 

I have a friend (yes I do have one) who was a local signalman and as you would expect an expert in signalling, also he did some relief duties at Belmont station signal cabin. Firstly he can correctly signal the layout and give us valuable information on the signal cabin and station. I will be taking him with me next week

[hayfield]

Not much to report as the latest offering is on the Watford and Districts Belmont thread.

 

I have today bought a set of common crossing and switch blade filing jigs, the common crossing jig is easy to understand, but do you file the head off first then the rear or start with the rear then the head. Will have to get one of the lads to down load the instructions

 

Also have been looking at what's available in the point roding and wire runs for signals. Picked up some wire and 2 different etched frets, also was given some printed stools from Modelu, they are excellent

[MikeH_83]

I will be interested to see which point rodding frets you have and which is better, I am at the point of trying to decide if I should use c&l or copperclad way or if I should do things properly

[hayfield]

I doubt if we will use either whitemetal or etched stools after seeing the 3D printed stools from Modelu. All I can say is they are stunning

 

If you are thinking of building turnouts then use either Exactoscale or C&L components. Ply timbers are more tactile, plastic(the thicker ones) are more robust, as most use plastic plain track I would opt for the latter. With the price of copperclad soaring the cost differential is quite close. If you prefer copperclad construction then you could mix and match both methods in a composite construction.

[hayfield]

Just about to start on a couple of copperclad turnouts for a layout based at the end of the 19th century, with Fox Henderson switches on some of the turnouts and hopefully no check rails.

 

Changing the subject I have been looking at point rodding and signal runs

 

 

These 3D printed 2 rod stools come from a company called Modelu

 

 

Only 1 run has 2 rods and have been kept in pairs so I don't loose them, you order the units with the number of stools required

 

The company address is modelu3d.co.uk

[trisonic]

John your proposed turnouts sound interesting - look forward to hearing more...

Thanks for the point rod info!

 

Best, Pete.

[hayfield]

A busy and frustrating week at work and having to paint the outside of the house is restricting modelling a bit, still a little bit of work on the bench has begun

 

 

As I said I have been asked to make some turnouts for a very early SECR layout based on a goods yard, this right handed turnout being based on a Fox Henderson switch, to start with it has a V4 crossing so a very sharp radius. The other item of note is the extended timber where a point lever will be attached

 

 

You will see the straight switch blade is 2 sleepers short of the curved one, this means there has to be 2 sets (bend at the point where the switch blade starts), also no check rails. A 16' wheelbase van goes through albeit slightly stiffly. But having a slight problem with a 3F chassis, it is a bit stiff and I will remove the wheels then clean the axles and bearings hopefully this should free things up a bit.

 

Working well, in the morning I will put some EM gauge wheels in to a standard wagon and test it. I think it will be short wheel base loco's, wagons and vans that will be used on the layout

 

 

[hayfield]

A quick up date, no taking the wheels off (they probable need a thorough clean though) I decided to replace the stock rail and having both switch rails in place I could gauge off both set points. The 3F chassis works fine. Next up is a Y turnout, again a V4 crossing but equal length switch rails

[hayfield]

The second update is that whilst the 3F worked, somehow I had gauge widened the turnout and the van would work very well, with part of the curved stock rail un-soldered I used a different 3 point gauge and it was soon working fine with the van and still no check rails. Next I remembered that I have a Hornby M7 with EM wheels, this worked very well as does a re-wheeled coal wagon. The 3F just will not work as the wheelbase is too long and rigid.

 

A few more chores then I will start the Y 

[hayfield]

 

The build is in the style of a Fox Henderson turnout rather than an exact replica. I only have a plan of the switch and the plain track will be C&L EM gauge I decided to keep the timber spacing the same, the sleepers will be mostly covered in ballast anyway

 

 

Next is the Y turnout, the point lever will be on the right hand side again. My usual preference is to pre cut the isolation gaps prior to fitting the rails. Takes a bit longer, but is so much neater than using a slitting disc. Also the depth of the cut can be regulated much easier using a junior hacksaw rather than abrasive disc. The additional benefit is that I can test the turnout whilst building it. The Vee is built waiting to be fitted

[mightbe]

Quick question: Why is one blade shorter than the other?

 

Quentin

[Dominion]

Now down the final leg of the build

 

100.JPG

 

Tiebars fitted and the remaining slide chairs

 

 

99.JPG

 

 

Next is to cut through the tracing paper exposing the first of the 3 sets of copper clad strips which need trimming

 

102.JPG

 

Cut off the excess and file flush. Put a drop of superglue on each piece of copperclad and replace the sleeper and let set

 

 

101.JPG

 

Now do exactly the same with the other outside set of strips, leaving the centre ones intact

 

103.JPG

 

Now add the chairs to all but the centre 3 timbers, this will give strength to the crossing to keep all in gauge

 

104.JPG

 

Expose the centre strip and cut back to the rail sides and superglue the copperclad to the central timber

 

105.JPG

 

Remaining chairs now added and slip can be tested.

 

To be quite honest thinking about it, building a common crossing like this would be quite difficult. Not impossible but in my view a lot harder than the method I use.

 

Hope this helps clear up any query's about how to build a crossing.

John, what method do you use to cut back the copper clad in the central ties of the crossing to the rail sides, without putting much force on the assembly ? For the common crossing I just nip back close to the rail with old rail cutters, and then file, but I think that would add too much force for the middle of the crossing.

I have a single slip built and working, and do not want to mess up this last step. Thanks, Tom

[hayfield]

Quick question: Why is one blade shorter than the other?

 

Quentin

 

Quentin

 

This is an early turnout design, which was about the time of interlaced turnouts (where 2 single length sleepers were used instead of one longer and wider timber). engines and stock were smaller and lighter, the permanent way was of lighter construction(wider sleeper spacing) and this would save a bit of material. Just an early design which was superseded 

Edited September 28, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

John, what method do you use to cut back the copper clad in the central ties of the crossing to the rail sides, without putting much force on the assembly ? For the common crossing I just nip back close to the rail with old rail cutters, and then file, but I think that would add too much force for the middle of the crossing.

I have a single slip built and working, and do not want to mess up this last step. Thanks, Tom

 

 

Tom

 

The copperclad strip I use is the C&L 0,6 mm thick strip. The common crossings are built as separate units and as you have stated they are easy to cut back (wire cutters or slitting disc) and file flush.

 

When building the obtuse/K crossings a bit of care is needed. I keep the central strip full length to keep the crossing in gauge whilst being built. The two timbers where the crossing rails end each have 2 strips of copperclad, both hold their respective crossing rail to the stock rail in gauge.

 

 

For example if the centre timber is numbered 25, the other 2 timbers will be numbered 23 and 27. I build the slips on a piece of paper on a building board and the timbers are stuck to the plan with 2 thin strips of double sided tape. The copperclad strips are not stuck to the timbers. In the photo timber 23 is no1, 27 is no2 and 23 no3, these numbers are the order you cut and file the copperclad strips back

 

 

Once the slip is built (with the exception of the chairs on timbers 23, 24, 25,26 & 27) I take the plan off the building board, I cut through the plan next to timber 23. The sleeper can be folded back exposing the rails so I can cut the copperclad strips back, then file flush. A spot of superglue on the back of the copperclad strips and the sleepers are folded back and stuck to the copperclad pads

 

 

Repeat the same process with timber 27. Once finished the crossing should be locked in place, though the chairs already stuck in place should be doing this already.

 

 

Now do the same with the central timber 25, the central part of the thin copperclad strip has done its job and can be cut back, filed flush and stuck in place

 

 

The final job is to fit the remaining chairs/half chairs

 

If I have still confused you let me know which part of the process is troubling you. 

[Dominion]

Yes thanks John.  I really meant what tool do you use to cut back the K crossing copper clad.

You cant approach from the side as you would with a a common crossing.

My slip is a 5.5 frog angle so the closure rails end on the timbers right next to the central timber. So there is not much room to get a slitting disc in, and I suspect if I tried to use rail cutters from above or below it would distort things.  So just wondering HOW you actually cut the copper clad.  Tom.

[hayfield]

Sorry

 

its a very worn down slitting disc, about 1/2" round and I am very careful with it. With a larger disc just cut through as much as far as can, then snap it off, you may have to peal back an extra sleeper or two

Edited September 28, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Sorry

 

its a very worn down slitting disc, about 1/2" round and I am very careful with it. With a larger disc just cut through as much as far as can, then snap it off, you may have to peal back an extra sleeper or two

 

What might help strengthen the joints is to tin the rail and copperclad first, providing you use plenty of flux sometimes the solder that is left on the tip of your iron is enough. If not then use as little as possible. Again use plenty of flux and a small amount of solder and the solder will flow both sides of the joint, this will be stronger than not pre-tinning the parts

[hayfield]

 

An EM gauge Y, as said earlier I precut the isolation gaps. Fitted the Vee then both stock rails at the same time

 

 

Wing/closure rails in place

 

 

I am using my new switch rail filing jig, head on the inside filed first

 

 

The rail is turned over and the rear is then filed. These jigs do make life a bit easier and I am getting used to using it. It is not necessary to have one of these, it just makes life a little easier. Now repeat for the second switch rail

 

 

Completed turnout all done just waiting for final testing, the check rails have been omitted on purpose for the era being modelled, even the Jinty goes through this one.

 

I also bought a Vee filing jig, these are easier to use first time and are very impressive

Edited September 29, 2015 by hayfield