Hayfields turnout workbench

[hayfield]

The main effort today is the two P4 turnouts but whilst I am waiting for the solvent to dry I can work on the composite build turnout

 

 

The straight stock rail is now fitted in preparation for fitting the wing/stock rail, very straight forward as two solder joints the rest being chairs to be stuck down

 

 

Common crossing is cut to length and stuck down, you can see the stock rail has its chairs fitted including the check rail chairs and rail. Unlike using the chairs for EM and 00sf gauges they are not cut in half as these are the correct ones for P4 gauge and hold the stock rail away from the check rail at the correct distance

 

 

The bottom right stock rail is fitted first ensuring that the check rails are set at the correct distance from the common crossing, once thats set its simply following the plan, using gauges where necessary

 

 

The upper stock rail is prepared for fitting, keeping it in one piece and will be working from the right hand common crossing going out both ways

 

 

[hayfield]

Had to work today and a 6 am start at that.Home by 3 to catch up on some sleep

 

 

starting top build the common crossing

 

 

Rails in place

 

 

After grinding back the surplus brass I was able to glue some half chairs up to the rails

 

Verdict: whilst building the common crossing is much easier, its a lot more work grinding back the excess brass strip level with both the sleeper and rail. I will keep making the common crossings as separate units, but its a good method for those who find the other method very difficult. Using thin copperclad strip may be easier than brass to grind it back flush to the sleeper

[hayfield]

 

The chairs now in place and other than putting in a pair of crossing nose chairs and 2 bridge chairs I have just used 3 bolt chairs trimmed where necessary

 

 

I used some old used sleeper strip (so its a bit tatty looking in places) and some copperclad strip to prove that a composite build is possible and still use chairs. a bit of paint is next followed by some ballasting. Then I have an idea for hiding the tiebar, but more later

 

This photo highlights the difference between a Peco point and a 4 mm scale turnout, OK its code 100 verses code 75. But the sleeper size and spacing is all the same. The Peco point as far as build quality and performance is first class, but as you can see its not 4 mm scale being an H0 (3,5 mm) scale product. In addition fine for modern image as it has flatbottom rail with clips instead of bullhead rail with chairs. 

 

Now there is no reason for those who build in the copperclad method in having chairs, for those who struggle with building common crossings as separate units an alternative method and perhaps those who have not tried owing to their impression that the skills required to build a turnout is beyond them.

 

Will be doing a turnout building demonstration at the South West Herts MRS show on the 9th of May in Bushey 5 mins from Junction 5 of the M1  http://www.southwesthertsmrs.org.uk/page4.html and will have some of the turnouts in this thread on show. 

 

 

[hayfield]

As I was working in the garden this afternoon I took the opportunity to prime the turnout, I cut very thin strips of masking tape to cover the rail heads

 

 

Next up will be to paint the sleepers, chairs and rails prior to  fixing on a board and ballasting, now you cannot see the isolation cuts on the copperclad sleepers.

Edited April 8, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

A few views from the shard

 

 

Cannon street station and circle

 

 

 

Waterloo top left

 

 

Blackfriers top right

 

 

Tracks away from London

 

 

[hayfield]

With the garden walls and a bit of socialising not much progress to report

 

 

A P4 B6 in copperclad waiting for its tiebar

 

 

A bit of hand painting of the sleepers of the composite turnout, would have been far quicker to have got the air brush out. And to cap it all no rust paint, every other colour but rust.I have left the backing paper under the switch rail sleepers just to protect them

Edited April 11, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Dominions been asking how strong the chairs are to be able to stick the common crossing in place

 

 

The whole chairs that will do most of the work keeping the common crossing from moving, you may see there is a mixture of standard 3 bolt chairs and the smaller bridge chairs

 

 

The underside showing the bottom of the chairs which do all the work

 

 

The common crossing now stuck in place, the common crossing (half) chairs will do the final piece of clamping all in place

 

 

[hayfield]

Work continues on a P4 turnout

 

 

With the common crossing well and truly set the straight stock rail is next, this has had the rail join cut into the head and etched fishplates soldered in place

 

 

The check rail chairs are functional in P4, so they are threaded on to check rail first then on to the stock rail. Then I start to thread the chairs on the stock rail 

 

 

The check rails are set using a Check Rail Gauge and the end with a standard roller gauge, I also glue the first chair in place at the other end. Now leave all to set

 

 

Once set the straight stock rail has the rest of the chairs stuck in place using a straight edge, at the same time the curved rail is stuck in place using a similar process of gauges where necessary.  

 

 

I now start to make the switch rails, firstly by filing the rear which contacts the stock rail. I use a 8" no 3 (fine) cut file

 

 

My little jig that allows me to file the head off whilst keeping the foot. The clamp allows me to hold the file in both hands

[hayfield]

No pictures but hopefully a few words of wisdom for those who are thinking about building or are just starting to build their turnouts.

 

TIME, Do not build in a rush, plan to take 3 or 4 hours at least for your first build

 

PLAN a Build Sequence, set the build process into several segments. Then do not move on to the next sequence until you are 100% happy with what you have done. Eg    cut and set out the sleepers, then look at them from all angles and be critical. Don't be afraid to replace parts you are not happy with, as its much easier to change something at this stage. I start by cutting the largest sleeper first, if I make a mistake I can cut it into a smaller one

 

TEMPLATE (plan)  Use this as a guide, but where you can always use a gauge to set the distance from one rail to another (the plan may have shrunk/enlarged through the printing process) 

 

Vee  Make sure the Vee is in the centre of the turnout, I would start with the Vee first but if you start with the stock rail then tack it in place, then double check that the Vee is still in the centre when gauged from the stock rail

 

THE SET on the curved stock rail (both on a Y) make sure you make the set (bend in the rail) just before the switch rail.

 

DOUBLE CHECK before you continue and further once the Vee and both stock rails have been fitted, check where the rails run parallel to each other that they are all exactly to gauge, then double check again. If the Vee and stock rails are in the correct positions the rest is plain sailing

 

THROW AWAY when making the Vee or switch rails (or anything), do not cut to length until you are 100% happy with the result. If the angle is wrong cut the end off and start again, better to reject now than later. Use simple jigs to check angles and hold work in place when filing or soldering.

 

TEST Just double check everything and start testing (with a wagon) as soon as you can, (Bluetack a crossing rail to the plan, or use rail joiners) the sooner you find a fault the easier it is to rectify a problem. 

 

I could make a copperclad turnout in well under an hour if I rushed, would I be happy with it I doubt it. Is there a chance I would make a mistake, quite probably. This is where so many fall down and think they cannot make points, simply because they want to see something running as quickly as possible. 

 

Just set realistic targets, if you are in a rush go and buy some ready to lay items

[hayfield]

THe P4 turnout is now finished and tested

 

 

I do prefer using the Exactoscale components, especially after recently using some C&L chairs (on the turnout below). They just seem crisper and easier to thread

 

 

This is the composite turnout and as said a test for painting as well. Firstly I used standard Halfords primer, would etched primer have been better? The colour under florescent lights is quite different and looks so much better, I plan to weather everything once ballasted. The tracing paper holding the slide chairs in place also detracts.

 

Next as posted I hand painted the sleepers, in future I will airbrush them as I missed a few corners hand painting and it would have been far quicker.

 

Next I bought some Humbrol rust and track colour paint, as the rust on its own is far too pink. Ended up 3 parts rust and 2 parts track a nice subtle colour, but an extra part of rust then weathered down may be better

 

I cut very thin strips of masking tape for the rail heads, which saved cleaning the rail heads except for the odd bit. Again I think I will airbrush the rails (masking the sleepers, then hand paint the chairs.

 

Next to ballast and try out a tiebar idea I have, plus have some Exactoscale 00 gauge sleeper base to add

[hayfield]

This evenings been spent repairing some old Peco points from the storage siding of the clubs old layout which is being dismantled

 

Earlier I bought a new (Draper) 8" straight file no3 (smooth cut), these I now find easier to rough out both Vee rails and one side of the switch rails. Firstly I have found that the smooth cut file is better than the number 2 file and that the 8" file is a bit easier to use than a 10". Most of all like knife blades they work better when sharp

 

 

in just over 2 weeks I will be doing a track building demo at the South West Herts show in Bushey on the 9th of May. Whilst there is interest in hand built track, there was also a lot of questions about turnout operation and decided if asked back I will have a small demonstration piece showing differing methods of switch operation.

 

At work I rescued an old clear plastic fitting which is ideal after cutting to size to mount the 2 units, at the rear I have cut the sleepers foe an A5 turnout, which will have a H&M solenoid motor fitted under it, and wired up. Being clear you can see both sides from either the top or bottom.

 

Along side it there will be 3 switches (now finished), as you can see these are not been built. the left hand one will be worked by a piece of wire through a double throw double switch to a tiebar, the centre switch will be worked by a GEM point lever with an omega loop fitted to a sleeper acting as a tiebar (it will be soldered to the switch rails only and not stuck down), the right hand one will be worked by a simple wire in a tube, but with a micro switch changing the polarity. I am not including servos as I don't understand them, but there is a SW Herts member who does

 

A bit of a mouthful but hopefully all will become clear once finished, I will also have some copperclad and chaired track in the construction stage being worked on, some parts ( C&L + Exactoscale chairs etc) for inspection as well as some 7 mm items. Please come and introduce yourselves as I might be a bit lonely at times and if there is something you want to see please pm me

Edited April 22, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

For those who I lost here is a photo to date

 

 

As I said a clear plastic board with room under for a H&M point motor which will work the yet un-built turnout on the far side

 

Near side are the 3 switch rail units, will fit a 2 pole switch to the left hand one, middle one will use a cast point lever moving the sleeper under the switch blades ends and on the right a simple wire and tubing

 

 

[hayfield]

Busy weekend mostly working and socialising

 

 

Both demo items built and now in for painting. The turnout will have a H&M point motor and will be not only connected to the tiebau from underneath but will be wired up for polarity just to explain what involved.

 

The front set of switches will be worked as follows:-

 

Left using a wire through a double pole switch so that  the direction and polarity is controlled by the switch

Middle A sleeper is used as the tiebar, direction altered by point lever and polarity by micro switch activated also by the point lever

 

 

The right switch will be worked by a wire in a tube, polarity altered  by using an SMP tiebar connected by wire to the common crossing from the central metal plate, this touches a wire in the direction its thrown which is live to the switch rail. Simplicity

[hayfield]

Most of the morning spent packing up and posting a few items which I sold on eBay (selling excess collection of 00 items to fund 0 gauge purchase)

 

 

I did manage to get the air brush out, firstly with a spray of Humbrol track (sleeper) colour, then With a mixture of Humbrol  rust and mostly sleeper grime misted on to (in the direction of) the rails

 

 

 Close up view, my spraying abilities are not too good which may in this case enhance the finish. Rail tops will be cleaned in a few days, but far better than the red oxide finish

 

Next jobs are the fit the units and the switching mechanisms.  

[hayfield]

I have seen this product Evo-Stik Serious Glue on the shelves and as I needed some impact glue decided to give it a go

 

Now its not really an impact glue and gives 3 minutes to reposition. It uses MS technology (what's that)? Says it makes a very strong bond on smooth or rough surfaces

 

 

Well firstly I used it sticking some Paxoline copperclad track to clear plastic, as you can see the test pieces are now firmly stuck waiting for the operating mechanisms to be fitted and rail tops cleaned up

 

 

Next to fit metal check rails to Peco points. In both cases it has made a very strong bond, well impressed.

[hayfield]

 

This was my first hand painted attempt which I was not very happy with

 

 

Out came the airbrush and a layer of paint was over sprayed as the previous post, starting with Humbrol sleeper/track colour, then over-spraying the rails and chairs with the track colour with some rust coloured paint added, The photo has changed the colour which is a bit darker

 

Now need to clean off the rail tops in a day or so, to my untrained eye much better and cleaning the rail tops will improve the looks even more

[hayfield]

Been a few days without posting, mostly been working. Modelling time has been spent in preparing some items for the demo at the South West Herts MRC show on Saturday (very close to junction 5 of the M1)

 

 

Still being completed but just a quick display of 4 mm track, starting with Peco code 100 and finishing with P4 hand built

 

 

I was asked last year how to make points (turnouts ) work (different switching methods). This display unit is now nearly finished and working. From a solenoid motor to a simple piece of wire, no doubt I will either find a few flaws or see how it can be improved upon for future use

 

 

Under the unit, its just something the novice modeller can pick up and handle and see from all angles

Edited May 5, 2015 by hayfield

[hayfield]

The next item is to show the difference between a hand built 00sf turnout and a Peco large point (this is the composite turnout I built)

 

 

They will be next to each other and ballasted, but I am trying to hide the tiebar on the hand built item

 

 

What I have done is get a longish piece of copperclad sleeper which is 1.6 mm thick. Then I made 2 pieces about 2 mm x 6 mm of 1.6 mm thick copperclad strip and another 2 from 1.06 mm thick strip. Soldered them  on the the long strip under where the stock and switch rails are, then soldered the switch rails to them.

 

Next is to cut some card as wide as the gap and ballast it. One piece will sit in between the switch rails, another two will sit on the outside. Then I can fit 2 pieces of plastic rod to act as dummy tiebars

 

Will have a go tomorrow at hiding the working parts

Edited May 5, 2015 by hayfield

[Mikkel]

Hi John, some very interesting updates. I really like your transparent display feature, simple yet ingenious.

 

What a difference between the Peco point and yours. The hidden bit of the tiebar should complete the picture. 

[hayfield]

I am on lates today and trying to tidy up a few items so here is a temporary fix for the show

 

 

Titled the turnouts and fitted temporary plates over the tiebar

 

 

A close up of the plates, you could of course work the tiebar from below and still cover up. I hope to fit a couple of plastic tie rods soon after making a new centre section as I am having problems sticking the ballast to the one in the photo, that will wait. I could get the paint brush out and paint it grey though

Edited May 6, 2015 by hayfield

[Ravenser]

I have seen this product Evo-Stik Serious Glue on the shelves and as I needed some impact glue decided to give it a go

 

aa23.jpeg

Now its not really an impact glue and gives 3 minutes to reposition. It uses MS technology (what's that)? Says it makes a very strong bond on smooth or rough surfaces

 

aa25.jpeg

 

Well firstly I used it sticking some Paxoline copperclad track to clear plastic, as you can see the test pieces are now firmly stuck waiting for the operating mechanisms to be fitted and rail tops cleaned up

 

aa24.jpeg

 

Next to fit metal check rails to Peco points. In both cases it has made a very strong bond, well impressed.

 

 

If this proves robust under use , it could offer an effective way of tightening up Peco pointwork for improved running reliability with modern models . That has pretty wide application.

 

What rail has been used - in the past I've found that replacement check rails ended up higher and therefore caught the track rubber

[hayfield]

If this proves robust under use , it could offer an effective way of tightening up Peco pointwork for improved running reliability with modern models . That has pretty wide application.

 

What rail has been used - in the past I've found that replacement check rails ended up higher and therefore caught the track rubber

 Code 100 for code 100 points and code 75 for the code 75 ones, You do need to shave off the plastic rail clips etc for a flat sleeper surface up to the rail sides

[hayfield]

|Just back from the South West Herts show and had a lovely day. A nice bunch of public.

 

 

These three demo pieces were well worth the effort.

 

Far too many modellers fail to realise the difference between 4 mm scale and H0 track systems, until they are next to each other.

 

Likewise the difference between a Peco point and a hand built one, hiding the tiebar was well worth the effort. Next up fitting plastic rod stretchers.

Even though it was code 100 v code 75, they were worlds apart

 

Finally the turnout control display unit lit a few thoughts for some, buy shares in point levers

 

Some nice layouts at the show

A nicely built curved 3 way turnout

edit: Not one of mine, though I would be very proud of it

Edited May 9, 2015 by hayfield

[trisonic]

It’s a great effort in education that you are making there, John. Good man.

 

Now if we could just convince everyone which sections of rail in “turnouts" should be shiny and which should be weathered...

 

Best, Pete.

[hayfield]

Pete

 

Thanks, sometimes track cleaning affects the painted rails, I have thought about using metal black on check rails prior to painting

 

Weathering is a black art that I am tampering with and am thinking of using one or more of the translucent colours from the Games Workshop to weather the rail,chairs, sleepers and ballast at the same time BUT I need a decent looking rust base colour !!

 

I must admit the hidden tiebar I have made went down a treat, pity photography accentuates the slight defects.

 

Also many forget that using one of the sleepers as a tiebar is also very effective, I have an idea

Edited May 10, 2015 by hayfield