Hayfields turnout workbench

[mightbe]

The solder-less turnout, please.

[Derekstuart]

No problem. It is on the camera at work so I will load it up tomorrow.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Derekstuart

[hayfield]

The solder-less turnout, please.

 

 

Will not be totally solder-less, the Vee has (should in my opinion) soldered, tiebars will need attaching normally be soldering, I like soldering a wire between the stock and switch rails, dropper wires also need soldering.

 

The idea is behind the common crossing made from a pre-assembled Vee and fitting the wing/closer rails with plastic chairs

 

 

This is my first thought copying the C&L ready to lay build method using a mixture of standard and bridge chairs

 

 

This is the C&L 0.8 mm check rail chairs which we use to to fix the check rails at 1.mm gaps. Rather than use the incorrect chairs why not use these in conjunction with the C&L common crossing chairs. It will look much better and hopefully do the job

The chairs on the top row of the sprue are Check chair right, Check chair, Check chair, Check chair, Check chair left. To use these chairs which have a gap between the 2 rails of 0,8 mm, we thread one rail through a chair then cut through the other. As the rails are held under tension to 0.8 mm apart when cutting through and placing next to the rail the resulting gap is near enough to 1 mm (we do use gauges to set them

The CCL & CCR are the chairs for the flare on the check rails, which is much the same as we are using them

 

I used a B6 plan now the wing rail has a CCR check chair on the left (B position), next I added a centre part of a standard check chair either side of the Vee (A position) as I will be adding a slab and bracket chair. Another centre part of a heck chair was put into the knuckle (X position) as the correct chairs for this position will be added, then a bridge chair followed by a standard chair

 

 

Fit the wing rail first using a wing rail gauge, then leave to set thoroughly overnight otherwise the gauge may alter when the closer rail is stuck down

 

I hope this helps explain the method

Edited February 16, 2016 by hayfield

[hayfield]

I have been thinking about doing a similar thing with ) gauge turnouts, I guess a basic system could be done with a mixture of standard and bridge chairs from C&L and Exactoscale, however I have been meaning to buy some chairs from Off the Rails in Shapeways. There is a large selection of functionable check rail chairs of various standards

http://www.shapeways.com/product/XWPQ5YRKA/check-rail-chairs-1-75mm-twin-pack?li=shop-results&optionId=3523365

 

Also some others 1-6 common crossings and 2 different assorted packs, the common crossing is only to S7 standards

 

I keep saying to myself buy some and try them, but other things get in the way

[hayfield]

Had a nightmare of a past week or more days, parcel missing in the post and problems with a house move. The parcel arrived today, 1 week plus late, but yesterday asked if we could move in 2 weeks time. The bottom of the chain needs to complete by the 31st as its a buy to let, our buyers are going on holiday on the 17th, my wife needs to give 4 weeks notice but feels morally obliged to train her replacement who is not recruited yet. only 3 houses in the chain, but a self centred person in the middle and an agent who's staff seems not to be on the ball.

 

Still hopefully it will all be worth it, and moving in quickly would be better than hanging around

 

 

On the work bench is a small formation, I must admit that it is far better and tidier to cut the isolation slits before soldering any rails, which meant the units can be tested under power during construction, Vee's fitted first then the stock rails. Tonight will see the wing/closer rails fitted as well as most of the switch rails

Edited March 2, 2016 by hayfield

[hayfield]

 

I had made 4 of the 6 switch blades on Monday whilst waiting for the building surveyor, so I have been able to get most done, tiebars and a couple of solder joints are required prior to final testing.

 

Also been on eBay with buy it now purchases, a replacement 25 watt element for my old Antex iron will now give me a back up + alternative iron with a different size tip, along with another 3mm tip and a 4.3 mm tip for jobs requiring a bit more heat

 

I also bought a Dremel drill stand press workstation, wanted one for a while so took the plunge

[Dominion]

I am looking for advice on staining or painting C&L wooden sleepers. I am in Canada and cannot find Colron here. Does anyone know an alternative or what the ingredients are of Colron ? I have tried some things here, but I suspect they are water based and don't penetrate the sleepers at all. Thanks, Tom

[PjKing1]

I am looking for advice on staining or painting C&L wooden sleepers. I am in Canada and cannot find Colron here. Does anyone know an alternative or what the ingredients are of Colron ? I have tried some things here, but I suspect they are water based and don't penetrate the sleepers at all. Thanks, Tom

Hi Tom I've used Jacobean Dark Oak wood stain and it works pretty well on my wooden sleepers, it took about three coats.

 

Here's a link to where I bought mine, hope that helps.

 

http://www.wilko.com/wood-stain+varnish/wilko-traditional-wood-dye-interior-jacobean-dark-oak-250ml/invt/0315908

 

Cheers

Edited March 8, 2016 by PjKing1

[Derekstuart]

If John doesn't mind, I would like to offer an alternative.

 

Humbrol enamel 160 (brown). Paint on, leave to dry overnight. The next day use very dirty black thinners (not thinned paint as such) and wash it on with a big brush. Leave it to soak in- repeat if necessary depending on whether you want new looking sleepers or old, knackered sleepers where the creosote is leeching out.

 

The real solution is try as many combinations as you can and see how it comes out. You can use a similar method with Humbrol grey primer and a more gentle black wash for post-creosote era sleepers that are drying out.

 

Good luck.

 

 

EDIT: A point I forgot to add. If you do it this way you will find that you get a much more varied range of colours. Leaving them to soak in dyes and what not makes them very uniform in colour.

 

If using plastic chairs I would strongly recommend "gluing" first, painting second. The solvent doesn't seem to be affected by the dyes Paul writes about, but does seem to lose effect when it is over paint.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Derekstuart

[hayfield]

I am looking for advice on staining or painting C&L wooden sleepers. I am in Canada and cannot find Colron here. Does anyone know an alternative or what the ingredients are of Colron ? I have tried some things here, but I suspect they are water based and don't penetrate the sleepers at all. Thanks, Tom

 

 

Tom

 

With ply sleepers I find stain rather than paint works best. Colron is just a makers name, any good quality stain is fine. Mine is quite old and spirit based (just dries quicker) and I dilute it and brush it on. Just go to any DIY store and buy a very dark stain. I use stain rather than paint as it goes into the wood rather that sit on top of the wood

[hayfield]

A day off but was quite full, went to see the new house again today, several reasons.

 

First to measure up a cupboard which will be my temporary work bench, double opening doors 70" tall and 53" wide, 36 " deep for the first 38"

 

My currant bench is 49" wide but the new one will have the computer monitor on it. My work bench is 24" deep, so I may put an extra 6" depth, I have various racks which I can screw to the inside of the doors and add some shelves above the bench

 

My workshop will be 7' wide and 10' to 12' long, there is a shed company in the village and got a quote for a bespoke built shell which I can then insulate and fit out. Need to peg it out once we move in to see how long I can go

 

Back to the bench, a nice formation, similar to a junction, but a single slip rather than a diamond

 

 

Plan built in Templot and went together quite well, timbers cut and put in place, will gap the timbers first as it gives a neater finish, allows each timber to be checked for shorts and allows me to test under power as I go

 

 

[Adrian]

Tom

 

With ply sleepers I find stain rather than paint works best. Colron is just a makers name, any good quality stain is fine. Mine is quite old and spirit based (just dries quicker) and I dilute it and brush it on. Just go to any DIY store and buy a very dark stain. I use stain rather than paint as it goes into the wood rather that sit on top of the wood

 

 

I'd agree with this, I think with the stain you keep the texture of the wood better - but just to add buy a stain darker than you think necessary. I use Rustins Ebony wood stain.

[jim.snowdon]

It's very pretty, but the timbering where the two turnouts and the diamond abut each other needs a bit more thinking about. Apart from the length of some of the timbers, there are going to be a lot very close together, so much so that in the full size, they would become difficult if not impossible to pack correctly. The snag for modellers is that other than under crossings and switches, there are no strict rules for laying out the timbering; it becomes a case of applying experience in ensuring that the rails are adequately supported whilst at the same time building in sufficient maintainability.

 

Jim

[martin_wynne]

It's very pretty, but the timbering where the two turnouts and the diamond abut each other needs a bit more thinking about. Apart from the length of some of the timbers, there are going to be a lot very close together, so much so that in the full size, they would become difficult if not impossible to pack correctly. The snag for modellers is that other than under crossings and switches, there are no strict rules for laying out the timbering; it becomes a case of applying experience in ensuring that the rails are adequately supported whilst at the same time building in sufficient maintainability.

 

The timbering layout is infinitely adjustable in Templot for customising, but as you say that first requires some prototype knowledge. Unless modelling in P4, S7, etc., it is not possible to follow the prototype exactly, especially where an overscale 6ft-way track spacing is used.

 

The long timbers are not impossible if unavoidable -- timbers up to 30ft long could be specified if necessary. Or sometimes long timbers were created by halving and splicing two shorter ones together, the joint being strengthened by bolting an old fishplate across it.   

 

Generally where turnouts connect to a diamond-crossing or a slip it is better to use the equalized (skewed) style of timbering for them, rather than the square-on style which John is using.

 

More about all this here:

 

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92233-timbers-square-on-or-equalized/&do=findComment&comment=1650901

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[jim.snowdon]

It is also permissible, within limits, to split what would otherwise be a very long timber, so that the left and right rails were on the ends of abutting, but unconnected, timbers. When this was done, the requirement (from memory) was that there could be no more than one split timber between timbers that retained the gauge, but I have come across an example where the proportion was 1 gauging timber in 4.

 

There are several archive films of track renewal on youtube that are worth looking at - the two that come to mind first are "Junction Renewal", which covers the construction and installation of a complex piece of S&C at Chester, and another that covers the complete renewal and remodelling of the St Pancras throat in 1947.

 

Jim

[hayfield]

The timbering layout is infinitely adjustable in Templot for customising, but as you say that first requires some prototype knowledge. Unless modelling in P4, S7, etc., it is not possible to follow the prototype exactly, especially where an overscale 6ft-way track spacing is used.

 

The long timbers are not impossible if unavoidable -- timbers up to 30ft long could be specified if necessary. Or sometimes long timbers were created by halving and splicing two shorter ones together, the joint being strengthened by bolting an old fishplate across it.   

 

Generally where turnouts connect to a diamond-crossing or a slip it is better to use the equalized (skewed) style of timbering for them, rather than the square-on style which John is using.

 

More about all this here:

 

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92233-timbers-square-on-or-equalized/&do=findComment&comment=1650901

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Martin

 

Thanks for the info, have altered the timbering of both turnouts 

 

Thanks

[hayfield]

Bit of a wearing day, but once we cut out the estate agents and met up with the buyers most of the issues were resolved. Nothing like having a bit of daytime rubbish on the iPlayer and concentrating on some modelling.

 

As I said the first thing was to mark out and cut the isolation gaps then test, a bit longer than using a slitting disc, but much neater and shallow cuts

 

 

If you are building a few turnouts these Vee filing jigs save so much time and make accurate angles

 

 

A nice clean and accurate angle

 

 

The Vees are fitted in place and the first two stock rails tacked at the crossing areas, up in 6.5 hours so thats it for this evening

Edited March 9, 2016 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Things are getting a bit frantic on the house move front, simply because my buyers are away on holiday in a week and whilst completion happens. So quite a few phone calls and a visit from an electrician, still hopefully all is starting to get into place

 

I am not preparing a blow by blow account of the build, as there is plenty of build details within this thread. After fitting the Vee's next I fitted the stock rails of the two turnouts.

 

 

The next stock rail to fit is the slip bent stock rail. Cut then bend to shape, now using gauges solder up the first end (right) where its joins the turnout. Using roller gauges at the other end, use a ruler from a Vee to the end of the opposite stock rail, then tack the centre rail. Now do exactly the same from the other Vee to the opposite stock rail and the bend in the rail should be in line. when happy solder the rest of the joints.

 

I have placed 2 short rulers to show what I mean (I use longer ones though to set the centre)

 

 

Here you see I have tacked the second stock rail in place, will not be soldered up fully till I do the centre crossings.  Finished for the day as club night. I will finish off the turnouts next before doing the slip as it will be easier to test the slip as I go with the turnouts finished

[hayfield]

 

Glad of this build which is a pleasant relief to the problems of house buying and selling. As I said I like to test the work as I go so to enable this I have made and fitted the wing/closer rails of all crossings.

 

Next to make the testing of the crossing easier my preference is to fit the switch rails on the turnouts first, the 2 straight ones have been made and fitted, I find it best to stop when tiredness starts to set in, so the build will be continued later after work.

 

As I said no blow by blow account, as these areas have been covered in detail earlier in the thread, but if anyone has questions please ask

[hayfield]

Building has been a bit on/off mainly due to the frustrating time waiting to exchange contracts and a very busy time at work

 

 

Sunday I fitted the 4 crossing rails and one of the slip rails, I made most slightly too long so the crossing was a bit lumpy

 

 

Yesterday I just slept most of the evening, so tonight I started to work on each crossing rail and fitted most of the check rails. Pleased with the results as I was able to run 2 locos through under power (benefit of cutting the isolation gaps first) which is a much better test than a wagon. The other alternative is to have a free running chassis to act as a test piece

 

The crossing rails are just tacked in place, tomorrow I can solder each one fully, but test each one before doing the next. Still a bit to do but on the home straight with it now 

[hayfield]

Nearly a month since my last post and sadly the house move has got in the way of any modelling. Initially it was the chore of packing up my belongings, which due to work commitments went up to the wire. The move went very well and we are very happy with the new house. My weeks holiday went very quickly with not too much done other than to fit a light into the loft and start laying a floor and shelving (over the insulation) to store surplus items (mostly railway) Last week was very tiring having to commute back to work each day (2 hour round trip if lucky) and the same this week before I transfer to a branch 20 mins away.

 

I have now started to build my work bench in the cupboard, the bench is now in place, now I need storage shelves so I can unpack my tools and parts. This is this afternoons job along with a bit more work in the loft

 

We have decided not to build a wooden shed for the railway room, with a cost going past £2500 our thoughts is to build it as part of the extension on the side of the house at the same time as we extend the back, so the cupboard will be my modelling home for a bit

[hayfield]

Found most of my tools and have quite a few now out ready for use. Need a couple of more shelves and a few more bits put away in the loft as I need some room for the track parts and my modelling spares. Still will evolve overtime and just need to be a bit tidier

 

As for my modelling room the more we think about it it makes more sense to build it (if possible) as part of the house extension rather than a separate wooden structure. If only to save heating costs which ran away a bit in the garage as I decided to stay warm. But it will also be an investment which will increase the value of the property  

[hayfield]

I have started to build track again, My cupboard workbench is slightly awkward to use so on the dining room table for a few days. Buying the shed to work from is out of the window as I will build a side extension to the house instead. By doing this it will make the kitchen much better and a bit larger and I will end up with a work room between 10' and 12' long by 6'. Completely secure, dry and heated by our central heating (minimal additional cost. Ideal size for a bench or two and a small layout

 

The medium time solution will be to alter the cupboard, but I have a brick outbuilding where I can put a shelf to work on until building starts. Still now have time to model and take things a bit more leisurely.

 

Just finished a couple of 00 gauge projects and starting a P4 copperclad crossover.

 

I had a call yesterday from Phil who runs the C&L small stand, asking if I could help out at Railex as Pete's back is playing up. This happened 2 years ago where we used the small stand with additional stock being sent from Bristol, I may even be able to do a bit of modelling/demonstrating in the quiet periods to fill up the space. So come and say hello.

 

Will post some photos later if I get time

[hayfield]

 

Nothing out of the ordinary, other than I would always advise those building copperclad turnouts and crossings to cut the isolation gaps prior to soldering the rails. Yes using a slitting disc is quick and easy, but in my experience they cut deep gaps. My reasons are as follows

 

1 Using a junior hacksaw to just cut the foil rather than cut into the sleeper/timber aids strength and looks neat

2 Using a multi meter you can check for shorts

3 If using on the scenic boards you can easily fill and sand flat the gaps

4 Whilst building you can test with a loco under power

 

This is a P4 facing crossover to be used to test stock on a workbench, and you can see I am starting to fit the Vee's, the wing rails on these crossovers are not soldered to the sleepers using a wing rail gauge, but using a check rail gauge, as the wing rails are acting as check rails with regard to the wheel back to backs.

 

I will bring this to Railex to finish, but is already in a much advanced state of build

[hayfield]

What a pleasant weekend at Railex, bit of a rush to get a few demonstration items ready due to the late request of my presence, plus working into the early hours of Saturday morning. But as I spent a good time packing up on Friday afternoon, nothing was left behind. Unfortunately I damaged a 7 mm turnout in transit, which will be a blessing in disguise, as it was stuck to a large heavy piece of MDF. I will make a lighter and more protective mounting

 

 

Good to see so many old friends, from both my old locality and RMweb. A great show to demonstrate as there were lots of modellers asking about turnout construction, especially those who have had kits for some time and not plucked up the courage to either start or finish it off.

 

I took an EM gauge turnout to build, again only using a soldered up Vee. The wing rails are held in place with a mixture of standard and special chairs. This method is excellent with the Exactoscale plastic timbers, for most of the time I had it part built so anyone who wished could test the strength of the wing/closer rail without it being soldered to the Vee. I also made cut-away models of a C switch and a 1-10 crossing, these showed the special chairs up more clearly with half the chairs exposed

 

 

After the St Albans show I built an A6 to 00sf gauge using a Vee not a soldered up common crossing, for some time I wondered about how best to use a timber to move the switch blade. Well I found some cast slide chairs, cut the slide plate from the chair, soldered them to a copperclad timber, then soldered the blades to the slide plate. worked ever so well

 

 

Just before the close I stuck 2 plastic chair parts from a plastic slide chair, one side to the timber the other side to the rail. The latter looked best, but unfortunately I also stuck the chair to not only the rail, but also the timber. So in this photo its missing. But it proved its worth. When I get time I will solder the cast chair parts to the rail

 

As a thought, the cast chairs are quite expensive ( £8.50 for 8). A piece of 3 mm x 0.6 mm copperclad strip (or brass shim) cut to the correct length could be used and stick plastic slide chair parts to the outside of the rails

 

To finish off the turnouts I will add plastic microstrip rod as dummy tie-rods.

 

Spent today with the wife (as I had been away for 2 days) chilling out, a bank holiday market in Maldon, then elevenses at Haybridge basin (Tiptree jams run a nice tea room there). This afternoon seeing our daughter (Its now nice to be able to drop in now and then ) as its her birthday tomorrow. And cooked the evening meal to give her a night off, even let her watch the Sowing program

 

Back to railway matters, I have built both an EM gauge and 00-SF turnouts successfully without ready built common crossings (the mail reason folk give me for not building their own turnouts, the next step must be to build one in P4

 

Tomorrow I need to unpack properly from the show and rebuild my work bench. Still a very pleasant and rewarding weekend and Railex seemed even better this year. I forgot I offered to build one of those etched brass and copperclad turnouts just for the experience of building one, it it happens I will post the build

Edited May 30, 2016 by hayfield