chaz Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 ......The wires were not evenly spaced being closer together towards the ground..... Don I've been told that the railway inspectorate specifies that the bottom three strands should be closer spaced, so that's the way my fence is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) I think you will find it is a matter of company practice, the Southern did it this way but the G W used the staples, what others did I do not know! Wally Neither do I, Wally. Specifically I don't know what the LNER did, or indeed BR(E)*. I stand by my earlier position though, in terms of the overall look of the model the difference is tiny, but the amount of extra (extremely tricky) work would be considerable. * Like so many other aspects BR might well have been bedevilled by regional differences. Chaz Edited March 16, 2013 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Boarded crossing added - looks logical enough? Probably most of the staff at Dock Green ignore it and walk across and along the tracks wherever they choose. It's really there to hide the baseboard join, which coincides with the left hand edge. Fine sand added to all the granite ballast and it now awaits dark grey paint (you might expect a camel or two but I hope the Sahara look disappears with paint). The hut in the background needs glazing (typical of a long list of small jobs that I am now working my way through). I have removed the brass steps from the platform end to allow the ground, weeds etc to be added, later these can be glued in place. There are a lot of bare sections like the one between the tracks in the foreground that need "doing". Colour and texture can be added when I paint the ballast.Chaz Edited March 19, 2013 by chaz 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) I often think about the approach I take to modelling and the nature of compromises made. It seems to me that there is more than one way of compromising. ......The question I usually ask myself.... does the bit I'm working on add to the picture or detract from it? If the latter then what do I change? I will be satisfied if Dock Green is a convincing picture, if it's coherent and looks like a bit of reality. Spot on Chaz, The thing about modelling anything, is that there will always be compromises of some sort.... Our trains don't (usually) run on steam or diesel... ... there aren't little tiny scale people to uncouple our wagons.. etc etc ad nauseum But I think Dock Green looks like no such compromises have been made, because everything looks coherent, consistent and plausible.... The occupational crossing looks great, and is in a logical place (to me) ... and is a neat way of disguising that baseboard join.... I had forgotten about the track being Peco too... .it does look so much better Cheers again Edited March 19, 2013 by marc smith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Spot on Chaz, ....there will always be compromises of some sort.... But I think Dock Green looks like no such compromises have been made, because everything looks coherent, consistent and plausible.... The occupational crossing looks great, and is in a logical place (to me) ... and is a neat way of disguising that baseboard join.... I had forgotten about the track being Peco too... .it does look so much better Thanks for the comments, Marc. "Coherent, consistent and plausible" - Hmmm, that about sums up my intention for the look of Dock Green. As for the track, well Peco plain track is fine, the pointwork has a number of shortcomings, not the least being the ultra-generous flangeways, but I think I addressed the worst feature when I removed the coffins. Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks for the comments, Marc. "Coherent, consistent and plausible" - Hmmm, that about sums up my intention for the look of Dock Green. As for the track, well Peco plain track is fine, the pointwork has a number of shortcomings, not the least being the ultra-generous flangeways, but I think I addressed the worst feature when I removed the coffins. Chaz Yes, I think you've vastly improved their appearance.... To be honest, I still think Peco's O gauge points look much better than their OO counterparts and I've been fairly happy with them However, you have demonstrated just how much better they can look, and any further O gauge offerings on my part, will employ similar methods... Re my comments, I can see that your approach has been consistent throughout.... To my eye, this is as important as any "dead scale" approach... You get get some subjects absolutely spot-on - scale wise, but it's the overall approach that helps create a believeable, atmospheric model... Dock Green is certainly that, and I hope to be able to see it in the flesh someday Cheers again sir.... PS. I don't know how you manage to get so much modelling done! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I think you will find it is a matter of company practice, the Southern did it this way but the G W used the staples, what others did I do not know! The official G W reason was that if the wires were on the outside of the fence the accountants could claim a larger land area in their official statistics, it may only be about three inches extra width on each side but over many miles that will add up. I assume the Southern accountants just did not want to spend the extra on the staples. Wally The Southern used staples with the fence posts the other way around (holes facing towards the rail and outwards). I have just had a reply from JDS. His view is that this is probably short run of fencing, certainly not to practice, and wonders what would be left of the galvanising on the wire after it had been pulled through a dozen concrete posts. Chaz, I like the foot crossing. It is an excellent way of hiding the board joint. I'm enjoying seeing this develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Yes, I think you've vastly improved their appearance.... To be honest, I still think Peco's O gauge points look much better than their OO counterparts and I've been fairly happy with them However, you have demonstrated just how much better they can look, and any further O gauge offerings on my part, will employ similar methods... Re my comments, I can see that your approach has been consistent throughout.... To my eye, this is as important as any "dead scale" approach... You get get some subjects absolutely spot-on - scale wise, but it's the overall approach that helps create a believeable, atmospheric model... Dock Green is certainly that, and I hope to be able to see it in the flesh someday Cheers again sir.... PS. I don't know how you manage to get so much modelling done! Your comments are much appreciated, Marc. As to how I "manage to get so much modelling done", retirement is a wonderful arrangement! Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 The Southern used staples with the fence posts the other way around (holes facing towards the rail and outwards). I have just had a reply from JDS. His view is that this is probably short run of fencing, certainly not to practice, and wonders what would be left of the galvanising on the wire after it had been pulled through a dozen concrete posts. Ahhh, I hadn't thought of the damage to the galvanised coating which the holes in the concrete would cause, and once damaged the wire would corrode quite rapidly.....I couldn't see a good reason for staples but that explains it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 The Southern used staples with the fence posts the other way around (holes facing towards the rail and outwards). I have just had a reply from JDS. His view is that this is probably short run of fencing, certainly not to practice, and wonders what would be left of the galvanising on the wire after it had been pulled through a dozen concrete posts. Now, I haven't actually fixed the posts, they are just a push fit in their holes and the wires are just slipped through and not yet glued. Would it be worth switching the posts round and using some fine wire for staples and superglue to make them more accurate? I ask in all sincerity 'cos I can't make up my mind. On the one hand it would be more accurate but on the other it would be more work - and in terms of the overall picture would it make much difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr2 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I've recently read your thread from start to finish, & think it's a beautiful layout, & I love the detail work you're doing on it. However, I think that unless you're a SR fencing expert or deliberately looking for it to nit pick, I'd say the difference in how you wire the posts up would be next to impossible to spot in the overall scheme of things, especially as the overall picture it presents is so good! But if you're like me, once something starts niggling I usually can't leave it alone & have to change it (not that my modelling is anywhere near your standard mind...!!) keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ..... if you're like me, once something starts niggling I usually can't leave it alone & have to change it (not that my modelling is anywhere near your standard mind...!!) keith Keith, I know what you mean! The trick is, not to let too many things niggle..... The fence wouldn't bother me I'm sure there must have been a prototype where that was the arrangement.... ... I mean, how else would they have discovered what worked and what didn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Ah Haaaaa! Have a look at.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/880/entry-11315-8fs-%E2%80%93-heavy-goods-engines-starting-with-the-Bachmann-wd-2-8-0/ ....the second picture on this blog - gives me carte-blanche I think! Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr2 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think that would certainly persuade me to leave well alone...!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I've recently read your thread from start to finish, & think it's a beautiful layout, & I love the detail work you're doing on it. However, I think that unless you're a SR fencing expert or deliberately looking for it to nit pick, I'd say the difference in how you wire the posts up would be next to impossible to spot in the overall scheme of things, especially as the overall picture it presents is so good! But if you're like me, once something starts niggling I usually can't leave it alone & have to change it (not that my modelling is anywhere near your standard mind...!!) keith Glad you like the layout Keith. You can see it in November as we are taking it to the Warley Exhibition - its first "big" show. By then I am confident it will be finished. I know what you mean by niggling, sometimes I put things right, sometimes I don't. It often depends just how finished a model is. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I would not worry about, the fence, you have photographic evidence to back up your modelling if anyone complains, as I stated practice differed between various locations. As a (retired) P W man on a preserved railway I realise that once fitted the wire will stay there untill it rusts out but will probably have been replaced by vegetation growing around it long before then. Just look on the other side of the line in the picture! Anyone worrying about the galvanising scratching off the wire due to the wire being pulled through the posts must be buying very low grade, and cheap, wire surely a classic case of under specifying. Donning my other official, also now retired, hat that of a health and safety advisor I would point out fitting the wire or staple to the outside of your posts is definitely a No - No due to the vertical drop on the non railway side of the fence. Keep up the good work and stop worrying about superfluous detail. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I would not worry about, the fence, you have photographic evidence to back up your modelling if anyone complains........ Donning my other official, also now retired, hat that of a health and safety advisor I would point out fitting the wire or staple to the outside of your posts is definitely a No - No due to the vertical drop on the non railway side of the fence. Wally Well now, Wally I think Dock Green will have enough authority to be convincing in spite of any of these possible slight errors. In any case we might welcome the odd talking point - it might be a way of engaging viewers at a show in conversation... And you noticed the vertical drop eh? Every model railway I have ever seen had one.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hmmm an interesting picture. I would leave them as is. My thinking is that it is short length of fence probably done by the contractor who did the post in the picture. Plenty of oppurtunity for rusty wire. Which is easier to paint/ weather than a galvanised finish. And I would keep a copy of the picture handy. The only problem with that drop, is the first step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hmmm an interesting picture. I would leave them as is. My thinking is that it is short length of fence probably done by the contractor who did the post in the picture. Plenty of oppurtunity for rusty wire. Which is easier to paint/ weather than a galvanised finish. There I must differ, there's nothing easy about painting such thin wire - 0.31mm - it would be like trying to paint hair. Which is why I went for chemical blackening to avoid the bright brass look. And I must say it is so fine you can hardly see it let alone what color it is..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I have just spent a pleasant evening with Chaz admiring a couple of the boards for Dock Green and looking at his fixed Ridley Wharf layout, which is one of the nation's best kept model railway secrets. Everything about Chaz's work oozes with quality from the construction of the baseboards to the very fine signalling and I consider it my good fortune to live just ten minutes away. I have come away inspired to finish some of my many half-built projects. His charming wife Sue also taught Art to some of my children when were they were at Thornden School in Chandler's Ford. Meanwhile, design work on the Ixion Fowler progresses well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Steady on Chris. My ego can only take so much massaging! I think Ridley Wharf will need a lot more work before it gets to the point where I could happily photograph it for the forum. And whilst all my time and efforts are spent on finishing Dock Green.... Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Pictures please....NOW! You can't taunt us with this and not let us have a peek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sorry mate, the answer is not yet, and maybe never. For the moment I am not going to publish anything on my fixed layout. All my efforts are focussed on completing Dock Green. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2013 Your call Chaz but you cannot expect us not to be interested. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Your call Chaz but you cannot expect us not to be interested. Don Fair comment Don, although it wasn't me who posted the mention of my fixed layout. However as Chris Kleine mentioned my signals, here are a couple of snaps of signals (and I hope this is not seen as a tease!). I took both photos outside - the sky makes a much nicer backdrop than a ceiling! (also the lighting is much better...) I may have mentioned before that one regret that I have about Dock Green is that as it depicts a yard where all the points would be thrown by hand levers so I can only justify one signal, protecting the exit from the yard. Chaz Edited March 23, 2013 by chaz 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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