Grantham - the Streamliner years

[Fenrir]

Oh, dear.  I hope I wasn't rude?  Sunday somehow never quite got going the way Saturday had.

 

Rude? Not at all mate. Preoccupied! You were obviously busy and I tried to catch you at what seemed a less frantic moment - your frown had lifted slightly! - but I gather those moments were few and fleeting.

[LNER4479]

Hey Robert,

 

A big thanks to you and the team for your efforts at Barrow Hill; magnificent layout all the more imposing in the flesh and some stellar work from the team in keeping it all going.

 

Highlights? Strangely I got a real kick out of watching the engine changes live side, watching the somersaults tumble and seeing anything on the up line rounding the curve out of Peascliffe is a particularly pleasing spectacle. The placards detailing the movements was a nice touch too, added a sense of narration to the scene, albeit succinct! Now there's an idea... model railway commentary; could add a touch of theatre, history and drama... and probably a rash of complaints too!       Perhaps not. But I digress.

 

I hope the experience was not to hard on the operators or the layout and look forward to further developments.

 

Oh and if you're ever exhibiting south of the Watford Gap and need an extra pair of hands then I'll gladly come and assist. Thanks again all.

 

Tom

Tom,

 

Many thanks for your kind words and feedback - I'm glad your visit sounds to have been worth it. Just a shame we didn't get to say 'hello'.

 

Your comments about the operations 'out front' and the sequence cards are especially helpful. There's been quite a lot of internal naval gazing since the event, as you might imagine, and we're conscious that there's a lot we can do to make the presentation slicker (notwithstanding the current incomplete state of the layout) but hopefully it wasn't too bad overall for a first time out.

 

Keep 'tuned' to the thread; I'll announce any future confirmed dates as I hear of them and I'm sure some of them will be closer to you than Chesterfield was

 

In fact, talking of which, that nice Mr Oliver of this parish was round yesterday so I can now confirm that, following its appearance at Nottingham in three weeks time, I shall also be taking 'mini-Grantham' along to this year's Warley show, where it will be in the demonstration section. So, as usual, if you're coming along to the big show, then a further opportunity to say 'hi'. And, given the nature of the exhibit, we might be a little less deep in concentration than at Barrow Hill!

[LNER4479]

Well, after a few days away to recover from the excesses of a first full public appearance...

 

(...during which we went up a mountain on a scary 'where eagles dare' cable car

...to put on a pair of skis here:

)

 

...time to prepare for the next appearance at the Nottingham show in less than three weeks time.

 

What has been dubbed 'mini-Grantham' should look something like this at the show

 

I'm using the opportunity to do a bit of that least favourite of jobs - ballasting (and the last bit was done 12 months ago as part of the preparation for appearance at the same event!)

 

I'm trying the 'apply glue first' approach. Following comments elsewhere on this site, I'm using a nearly neat mix of PVA, applied carefully, trying to avoid sleeper tops and any part of the rail.

 

This supply of ballast gives about the right effect I'm after.

 

The north end 'scissors' arrangement has thus been treated over the last few days.

 

The idea is to provide a contrast with the ballasting on the principal running lines (ie the double track East Coast mainline, where the foam ballast has been used, suitably coloured/weathered, to give an ultra-neat appearance); the auxiliary passenger running lines are thus not as neatly ballasted. The goods lines, sidings and depot will be even more rough and ready.

 

Here I've deliberately posed Tracery on and alongside the newly ballasted track. Needs a careful tidy up and touch up with the Matt 29 but hopefully gives some feel for the effect. Certainly the track in the near foreground now sticks out as needing some treatment!

Edited February 25, 2014 by LNER4479

[Dominion]

What a fabulous layout Robert.  I wanted to share my gratitude for posting.

It has taken me until your post #410 on track realignment to be able to offer something back.

 

You mentioned you had a derailment problem at the front of long rakes going up the grade in the fiddle yard.

I had that problem with 7 or more Hornby Pullman cars or 8 or more Gresley's. The weight of the carriages prevents the Hornby close coupling mechanism from re-centering. So any opposite curve, even after a straight section, may still cause a derailment if most of the back half of the train is still on the grade, even with straight track between the curves.

 

There is thankfully an easy solution.

I replaced the couplings with the fixed link Hornby or Roco type. (Everything else was already Kadee so I am accustomed to changing couplings !)  This forces the adjacent bogies to maintain good alignment with each other and has fixed the issue in 2 different areas of my current layout.

 

Incidentally, I use 2 original Roco couplers on my Pullman's and one roco and one Hornby on my Gresleys to get close coupling but still sufficient clearance.

The motion of the fixed link couplings through your excellent point work would be fabulous.

Apologies if you have already covered in posts subsequent to number 410, I am still 25 pages behind !

 

I am now inspired to replace my current LNER layout with something more prototypical.

[LNER4479]

Thanks very much Tom - enjoy the rest of the read

 

I had to return to #410 to refresh my memory of what that exact issue was. Ah yes! Happy to report that there have been no more persistent derailments round the main circuit since re-aligning that particular spot. The Pullman rake and the Hornby Gresleys still take the occasional 'walk on the wild side' round some of the assault course pointwork in the fiddle yard but so long as they're OK round the front that's the main thing. In two days of running at Barrow Hill, we didn't have one major derailment/pile-up despite the speed of some of the trains involved so I was quite pleased with that (no doubt the owners of the lovely stock were as well   ).

 

I have experimented with some of the fixed couplings provided in the red boxes like you say and it does improve things but I find the bogies still have a tendency to float/glide over the pointwork (due to the effect of the self-centring mechanism) rather than follow it properly like they should. Certain aspects of the fiddle yard layout are not yet optimal however and can be changed relatively easily so this is the more likely course of action as part of the post-Barrow Hill improvements/developments to come.

 

Thanks once again for kind comments

Edited February 25, 2014 by LNER4479

[Dominion]

On the Roco style couplings I use them for the main part of the rake that will be leading up the troublesome grade, but use kd's for any part at the rear of the rake I want to be easily detachable.

Separately I have been looking through my books for pictures of Grantham. Have you have see the ones in Rex Conway's Eastern Steam Journey Volume 2. One of them is of train boards on a bike shed wall, 5 in residence, 7 out on trains I assume. Page 18

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dominion

[LNER4479]

Have you have see the ones in Rex Conway's easterm Steam Journey Volume 2. One of them is of train boards on a shed wall, 5 in residence, 7 out on trains I assume.

Thanks again Tom. No, haven't come across that picture - I'll keep a look out next time I'm browsing in the railway section of a suitable book shop...

[LNER4479]

Well the last fortnight has all been rather uninteresting, plodding away at further ballasting and other non-photogenic preparations for Nottingham (where, I understand, Grantham is due to share the same room as John White's Leeds Central layout, so a nice ECML 'focus' to look out for). However, last night, I had a tidy up and got out some of the platforms, buildings and signals for a photo session so that you can see how this area of the layout will look this weekend.

 

This shows the three grades of ballast I'm aiming for. To the left (where 'Tracery' is sat), the well-manicured ECML, represented by the Peco foam ballast; in the centre, the newly ballasted scissors arrangement (more loosely ballasted but maintained to some degree, ie wherever passenger trains might run); to the right, the up/down goods relief line which has just had a light sprinkling of ash ballast to represent minimum maintenance (the adjacent MPD arrival road has yet to be treated but will look similar).

(You can also see the temporary barriers in place to stop anything falling off while we're at Nottingham - I do plan to be moving a few trains around to demonstrate that stock can run over the modified Peco pointwork perfectly satisfactorily)

 

This latter photo is a slightly different viewpoint to normal, owing to the fact that the first of the MPD baseboards is not in position hence the camera can get 'in'. If I am allowed to say so, I quite like this shot. Eagle-eyed viewers might be able to spot further ballasting work having taken place in the mid-distance - the gap between the foam ballast has been filled in where the Nottingham lines branch off from the ECML (in between the signal box and the tall signal). The 'brickies' have also been out and attended to the inner parapet of the road bridge. I've also begun the process of snipping off the lugs of the Peco points wherever they have been ballasted (look carefully at the two double slips so treated). I didn't want to do this until everything was wired up, motored up and thoroughly tested.

 

I also had a play with Mrs 4479's compact digi camera while I was at it. Unable to manipulate it to get any sort of depth of field thing going but of course it's great virtue is that it can get in closer and lower down to the subject than the big SLR. So, for what it's worth, here are some results from that exercise:

 

 

 

If you're coming to Nottingham then do look out for us and say 'hi' . Should (hopefully!) be a little less frenetic so far as the layout is concerned.

 

'Robert'

Edited March 11, 2014 by LNER4479

[gr.king]

Looks like you'd have to massively increase the amount of light to get any depth of field with an automatic camera in those shots. 

[Dominion]

How great to read through your collective exploits with Grantham so far.  Lot's of fun to read and I have learned a lot too.

I have 2 question's about your baseboard joins and track alignment.

 

You mentioned using 6mm machine bolts, t-nuts and repair washers. I know the t-nuts. Are repair washers something special with a  sleeve or just plain washers? And if just plain washers, is there a trick you have to getting good board alignment ?  A post I read from North America uses 2 t-nuts for each screw, one with the threads drilled out so it becomes a sleeve, and then both t nuts epoxied into the wood. This sounds like a good plan to me.  Comments welcome.

 

With the track joins, it seems you may have not bothered with soldering to copper clad at the ends of each board and I think I even see peco fishplates across the basboard joins. Is that right and if so do you just slip them from one rail across the join once set up ? Do you think the same technique would work for peco code 75 as well or would you try something different if you were using code 75?

[stewartingram]

Looks like you'd have to massively increase the amount of light to get any depth of field with an automatic camera in those shots. 

Not wishing to hijack, but Photoshop is your friend

 

Stewart

Edited March 11, 2014 by stewartingram

[gr.king]

Indeed, but real light would cause an automatically controlled camera iris to stop-down and increase the depth of field (often mis-described as depth of focus) captured in the picture.

[JCL]

 

it's great virtue is that it can get in closer and lower down to the subject than the big SLR.

 

 

I agree, if I need a photo of a small item I tend to use the phone as I can get in really close. The downside is that the quality is pretty poor compared to the DSLR.

 

I can't give you depth of field in Photoshop, and it''s not up there with the artists on this blog, but I needed some time away from the glue pot this afternoon...

 

 

edited to credit "the-night-bird", cloud photographer http://the-night-bird.deviantart.com/art/Cloudy-Filed-02-217299252

Edited March 11, 2014 by JCL

[westerner]

Obviously at the time the photo would have been B&W

 

[LNER4479]

Not wishing to hijack, but Photoshop is your friend

 

I can't give you depth of field in Photoshop, and it''s not up there with the artists on this blog, but I needed some time away from the glue pot this afternoon...

 

 

Obviously at the time the photo would have been B&W

Many thanks to each for time expended in improving my crummy photos - much appreciated!

[LNER4479]

How great to read through your collective exploits with Grantham so far.  Lot's of fun to read and I have learned a lot too.

I have 2 question's about your baseboard joins and track alignment.

 

You mentioned using 6mm machine bolts, t-nuts and repair washers. I know the t-nuts. Are repair washers something special with a  sleeve or just plain washers? And if just plain washers, is there a trick you have to getting good board alignment ?  A post I read from North America uses 2 t-nuts for each screw, one with the threads drilled out so it becomes a sleeve, and then both t nuts epoxied into the wood. This sounds like a good plan to me.  Comments welcome.

 

With the track joins, it seems you may have not bothered with soldering to copper clad at the ends of each board and I think I even see peco fishplates across the basboard joins. Is that right and if so do you just slip them from one rail across the join once set up ? Do you think the same technique would work for peco code 75 as well or would you try something different if you were using code 75?

Aaarrrggghhhh! Finally, after 20 months on the forum and 1110 posts, someone has finally 'rumbled' me!

 

To answer the 'easy' one first. The repair washers are just simple plain washers. They have a large outer diameter compared to the central hole thus spreading the clamping force across a corresponding area to minimise damage to the baseboard end pieces. On the scenic boards 'out the front' I also use brass dowels to assist with board alignment.

 

And now the contentious one! Yes, I do slide the Code 100 fishplates across the baseboard joints. This has two virtues i) it ensures correct track alignment every time ii) it greatly reduces the amount of electrical connections required between each board. I have used Peco Code 100 in this way for over 30 years and never suffered any major problems. The first point (regarding track alignment) is the key one so far as Grantham is concerned (the second point is a handy bonus!) as I have a requirement to run long trains at speed. In two days of running at Barrow Hill (including many trains run at express speeds - and a certain 'test train' running at an extremely high speed!), I don't believe we had a single derailment attributed to a track alignment problem. Visitors to the layout in its normal home will (I hope!) attest to the generally trouble-free running of trains.

 

I have less extensive experience with Code 75 and would say the technique would not be as successful for the finer rail gauge. Code 100 is a relatively massive rail cross-section (compared to the scale size) and the fishplates are similarly 'massive' and robust hence they hold the rail well and there is a significant electrical contact area at a joint. This principle breaks down as the rail size becomes progressively smaller hence why the copper clad sleeper ends is the recommended approach. Horses for courses and what works for you, I guess

 

Many thanks for kind comments and interest shown in the project.

[Dominion]

Very practical !  I found a picture and more important a caption you may like if you have not seen it, from LNER Pacifics in colour, by Derrek Penney. Pg 33 shows one of your favourites, Tracery, in BR days on an up express by the Nottingham junction in 1962. But the caption says there used to be a short lived Pullman service to Nottingham and Sheffield that used the Nottingham junction. Would give you an excuse to run the Pullman set from the station across to your Nottingham lines.

[LNER4479]

That would be the Sheffield Pullman. Only ran from June 1924 to September 1925 (having been latterly extended to Manchester) [banks/Carter]. So a bit before my target era but agree it would be nice to have an excuse to run a through express on/off the Nottingham lines. Race special perhaps?

[LNER4479]

MINI-GRANTHAM AT NOTTINGHAM

 

A few brief views from this weekend's visit to the good folks of Nottingham.

 

This us what we looked like, all set out with info sheets etc... but just a cotton pickin' minute - what's that at the head of those coal wagons?

 

I was invited to give a freshly delivered Garratt a run so duly obliged. Could have done with about 90 more wagons to put behind it though!

 

I also came away with a prize! I entered in the signalling category and came away with the MSE Signalling prize. Naturally chuffed about that.

 

We shared the room with John White's impressive Leeds Central layout, ably assisted by Mr Graeme King (3279).

 

Great to see some other RMWebbers - Jason (Sandside), Roy (@34F), Chris (Kenokie), Paul (Flying Fox 34F) and Great Northern - and nice to be able to talk as things were, as predicted, a little less frenetic than last month at Barrow Hill.

 

All in all, a very pleasant weekend.

Edited March 17, 2014 by LNER4479

[Dominion]

You deserve the signal prize for sure. Many congrats. They are very impressive.

[freebs]

A very impressive thread indeed. I've skim read most of it to get here, pausing to consume the important how to bits. It's a most inspirational project indeed and has given me several ideas. 

 

I don't suppose there's a chance of it heading to York at Easter?

 

Lee

[LNER4479]

Thanks Lee

 

I shall be at York this Easter - Mrs4479 and myself have been roped in to take your money off you if you're coming on the Sunday

 

So not with layout therefore, but would love to be there one year as it's quite handy for us.....

[freebs]

We came to the Sunday last year and I'm hoping to be able to get the little one over again this year (I think he is too)

[Les1952]

Nice to actually see the layout at Nottingham even though our little bunch arrived at a time on Saturday when it was just too busy to interrupt and say hello.... Well done on the award.

 

All the very best

Les

[Kenokie]

Robert

 

It was good to meet you on Sunday, and thanks for your time with answers to my questions. I have come away with some useful photos and info for consideration for our OO Live Steam Layout plans. If you get time off from your money collecting duties at York come and say hallo as I will be there with the OO Live Steam club roadshow layout, happily playing trains with A3's and A4's 

 

Chris