Southern Rail Built signals and LBSC box

[beast66606]

I think this was Bosham.

 

I thought I'd share it as I rediscovered whilst looking for something else.

 

 

These two are Bosham

 

 

and the cabin

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Nice to see these signals...it must be 20 years since the resignalling along the coast route saw these replaced and the box abolished; not to mention those gates.

 

Those signal posts are distinctive, and examples are still in existence at Pulborough and other locations along the Arun Valley route. Are they to a Southern design, or does the design originate from LBSCR days?

[beast66606]

Nice to see these signals...it must be 20 years since the resignalling along the coast route saw these replaced and the box abolished; not to mention those gates.

 

Those signal posts are distinctive, and examples are still in existence at Pulborough and other locations along the Arun Valley route. Are they to a Southern design, or does the design originate from LBSCR days?

 

I believe they are a Southern design.

 

I photographed most of the boxes down there, it was because of the impending abolitions we went, went inside most of them too.

 

One day I might scan them, time is not in large amounts at the moment I'm afraid.

[roundhouse]

I believe they are a Southern design.

 

I photographed most of the boxes down there, it was because of the impending abolitions we went, went inside most of them too.

 

One day I might scan them, time is not in large amounts at the moment I'm afraid.

 

I know what you mean - slides I can do at 100 a time (when the scanner doesnt jam) but in the 80's most of my shots were prints so doing a strip of 4 negatives at a time is painful - still got 1986 to 1990 to scan which I htink includes my trips to the Coastaway to phot the boxes!!

[Oldddudders]

Nice to see these signals...it must be 20 years since the resignalling along the coast route saw these replaced and the box abolished; not to mention those gates.

 

Those signal posts are distinctive, and examples are still in existence at Pulborough and other locations along the Arun Valley route. Are they to a Southern design, or does the design originate from LBSCR days?

The Southern - very good at saving money - made great use of rail-built signal posts, although the design of the less-than-ornate metal finial really goes back to the South Eastern Railway, which used them to cap wooden posts. The Brighton used wooden posts in most cases, although it did have some tapering concrete posts as well, and the occasional lattice-post.

 

I admit to chasing through the authority for this resignalling, although it might have happened even earlier if the DTp hadn't started tightening the screws on BRB's Investment Procedures at about this time - mid-80s. The preceding scheme, Portslade - Angmering, was authorised on not much more than two sides of A4 plus appendices, all written by my predecessor, but Chichester - Havant needed a full independent appraisal of options etc, so took much longer to get right. What with this and other major sins, like closing Tunbridge Wells - Eridge, it's amazing people ever talk to me on here!

[David Todd]

http://www.modelsignals.com/4mm_scale_page.htm

 

 

The model (photo by Steve Flint)

 

[The Bigbee Line]

The Southern - very good at saving money - made great use of rail-built signal posts, although the design of the less-than-ornate metal finial really goes back to the South Eastern Railway, which used them to cap wooden posts. The Brighton used wooden posts in most cases, although it did have some tapering concrete posts as well, and the occasional lattice-post.

 

I admit to chasing through the authority for this resignalling, although it might have happened even earlier if the DTp hadn't started tightening the screws on BRB's Investment Procedures at about this time - mid-80s. The preceding scheme, Portslade - Angmering, was authorised on not much more than two sides of A4 plus appendices, all written by my predecessor, but Chichester - Havant needed a full independent appraisal of options etc, so took much longer to get right. What with this and other major sins, like closing Tunbridge Wells - Eridge, it's amazing people ever talk to me on here!

That's progress, I won't hold it against you.  The removal of those warm havens on dark nights (signal boxes) removed a lot of the personality of the railway.  There's no doubt about the better visibility of MAS colour light signals.  That's not to say that there weren't colour light signals before, a number of distant signals were replaced by two aspect green/yellow signals.  It was also sounds and smells (the noise of the signal wire tightening a the Bobby prepared to clear a signal.  The smell of lamps in ground signals was also distinctive.  That's not to say that that colour light signals were silent.  When some 4 aspect signals cleared you could hear the relays clicking as the signal interlocking decided what aspect to display (by checking what aspects were on the next signals).

[Oldddudders]

That's progress, I won't hold it against you.  The removal of those warm havens on dark nights (signal boxes) removed a lot of the personality of the railway.  There's no doubt about the better visibility of MAS colour light signals.  That's not to say that there weren't colour light signals before, a number of distant signals were replaced by two aspect green/yellow signals.  It was also sounds and smells (the noise of the signal wire tightening a the Bobby prepared to clear a signal.  The smell of lamps in ground signals was also distinctive.  That's not to say that that colour light signals were silent.  When some 4 aspect signals cleared you could hear the relays clicking as the signal interlocking decided what aspect to display (by checking what aspects were on the next signals).

You are spot-on. The local signalbox was always the "intelligence centre" of the station, as far as knowing what was going on was concerned. I didn't have any reason to enter the boxes down that line of route, sadly, but know what you mean about warm havens. Crystal Palace A - right by the tunnel mouth - was a good place to spend a morning in 1969, and Signalman Dave Cox only booted me out so he could comprehensively clean the coke stove for his mate on late turn! My local station - and the one where I started in the industry by selling tickets in 1966 - Dorking North, had been resignalled in 1938 for the Mid-Sussex Electrification scheme, so multiple aspect signals were the norm for me, but it still had absolute block working and bells rang out. A little later, going into Minster (Thanet) box and having the duster thrown at me so the signalman could make us a cuppa. The "End of the Line" at Epsom Downs, where Les Hall made me welcome in the box one evening, back in the early '70s when there were 7 (?) platforms. Now there's just one. The personality of the railway has indeed changed.

[The Bigbee Line]

A couple of pictures from a Betteshanger to Cricklewood Freight.

 

This is the Canterbury West Down Home; From left to right the small arm is for the Down Loop that runs behind the platform, the next is for the platform.  The defunct large doll was for the through roads.

 

We're over the Thames now and just turned right at Kew.  Not rail built but an interesting arrangement of repeaters

 

 

[Platypus]

The Southern - very good at saving money - made great use of rail-built signal posts, although the design of the less-than-ornate metal finial really goes back to the South Eastern Railway, which used them to cap wooden posts. The Brighton used wooden posts in most cases, although it did have some tapering concrete posts as well, and the occasional lattice-post.

 

I admit to chasing through the authority for this resignalling, although it might have happened even earlier if the DTp hadn't started tightening the screws on BRB's Investment Procedures at about this time - mid-80s. The preceding scheme, Portslade - Angmering, was authorised on not much more than two sides of A4 plus appendices, all written by my predecessor, but Chichester - Havant needed a full independent appraisal of options etc, so took much longer to get right. What with this and other major sins, like closing Tunbridge Wells - Eridge, it's amazing people ever talk to me on here!

Dear Olddudders,

 

1 / There has been some comments recently on the British Railway Modellers of Australia / BRMA e-group re the SR's use of redundant BH rail for signal posts. The received wisdom via George Pryor's Southern Signals is that second hand rail was used, a practice that some preserved railways have continued. Yet a retired PW Engineer is adamant that only new BH was used for signal posts as second hand rail was deformed and not suitable for re-use. Would you care to comment please ?

 

2 /. On a related manner the Victorian Railways / VR of Australia used to use old rail off cuts for fence posts and motor car barriers and in the country for replacement telegraph and telephone lines. The practice was stopped after some fence posts rotted at ground level and fell over,

 

Regards, Platypus

[Oldddudders]

Dear Olddudders,

1 / There has been some comments recently on the British Railway Modellers of Australia / BRMA e-group re the SR's use of redundant BH rail for signal posts. The received wisdom via George Pryor's Southern Signals is that second hand rail was used, a practice that some preserved railways have continued. Yet a retired PW Engineer is adamant that only new BH was used for signal posts as second hand rail was deformed and not suitable for re-use. Would you care to comment please ?

2 /. On a related manner the Victorian Railways / VR of Australia used to use old rail off cuts for fence posts and motor car barriers and in the country for replacement telegraph and telephone lines. The practice was stopped after some fence posts rotted at ground level and fell over,

Regards, Platypus

Regrettably I am unable to offer any factual info on the use of bullhead, old or new. But logic suggests that rail past its sell-by date for its original purpose would still make a perfectly rigid structure in this form. The head might be worn, but the web would still be plenty strong enough for so undemanding a task. I am not an engineer, merely a lapsed operator, so this is not my field! OTOH, George Pryer was extremely knowledgeable on matters of signalling history, and I am disinclined to ignore his version.

[Mallard60022]

I have fond memories of the Arun Valley line from when I worked from Chi a lot of the time and lived in Horsham; all through the 90s.  I needed a car as my 'area' for work was West Sussex, however when I knew I was going to be 'in the office at Chi' the train was a great way to relax going to and returning from. I did try doing some around the east of the County trips by rail, but the time it took was silly. Happy slam door days and fun at Barnham when the big box was still there. Seems just like last week.

Phil

[bike2steam]

Regrettably I am unable to offer any factual info on the use of bullhead, old or new. But logic suggests that rail past its sell-by date for its original purpose would still make a perfectly rigid structure in this form. The head might be worn, but the web would still be plenty strong enough for so undemanding a task. I am not an engineer, merely a lapsed operator, so this is not my field! OTOH, George Pryer was extremely knowledgeable on matters of signalling history, and I am disinclined to ignore his version.

Indeed, I built a few signal posts at Swanage, under the 'guidance' of George over 25 years ago. Using old rail, some lengths with the head so worn that lethal burrs had to be angle-ground off before machining, and fabrication could commence.