Theory of General Minories

[TonyMay]

On 16/12/2022 at 03:05, calcifer said:

Isn't the S-curve avoiding geometry in Minories dependent on the turnout's handedness? 

 

The basic design of minories is a trailing crossover followed by facing crossover.  To keep that in place involves something like this.  Not the worst design, but it could be better:

 

replacing one turnout with a slip gives you something a bit better:

 

but it's still not Minories.

[RobinofLoxley]

 

1 hour ago, TonyMay said:

 

The basic design of minories is a trailing crossover followed by facing crossover.  To keep that in place involves something like this.  Not the worst design, but it could be better:

 

replacing one turnout with a slip gives you something a bit better:

 

but it's still not Minories.

We do go round in circles a bit with this thread. Freezers original was based on making the most compact design possible using what was available in trackage at the time. However, it was a specific that reverse curves were avoided - only arrivals to platform 3 has one in (A). Its possible to include a slip, but not as shown above. When you do, you get more reverse curves, and with a slip they are tighter than turnouts (based on Streamline).

A is the original, B is its mirror, the first turnout is now facing so it would be OK for arrivals on the 'upper' track. C is A with each turnout the opposite hand - makes no difference to operations, which I think (?) was the question. My only tweak is to separate slightly the crossover turnouts to reduce and eventually eliminate the reverse curve there - the distance required is stock dependent but may or may not compromise the compactness. Its those 2 turnouts that can be replace by a slip, but that introduces the reverse curves.

The other thing is that curving the platform lines back is also an essential property because it allows the width to be minimised, which would cause the loco refuge to be relocated to the arrivals side for C.

[Flying Pig]

47 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

We do go round in circles a bit with this thread.

 

🤣

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

We do go round in circles a bit with this thread.

But...

 

Surely Minories was an end-to-end (and don't call me... etc, etc.)?

 

Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week. Try the mince pies.

[SZ]

12 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

We do go round in circles a bit with this thread. Freezers original was based on making the most compact design possible using what was available in trackage at the time.

 

I've come to believe the absolute essence of Minories is the joining of turnout to straight, so elegant, so simple.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

31 minutes ago, SZ said:

 

I've come to believe the absolute essence of Minories is the joining of turnout to straight, so elegant, so simple.

Good point - and one I actually don’t recall being made quite as clearly before in this thread.  It’s an interesting way of presenting the basic building block of the Minories design.  Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, but certainly worth one of @St Enodoc‘s mince pies in my view.
 

Of course, many an elegant two-turnout Micro layout has also been designed / built using just this arrangement, Keith.

[RobinofLoxley]

1 hour ago, SZ said:

 

I've come to believe the absolute essence of Minories is the joining of turnout to straight, so elegant, so simple.

For me that doesn't define anything, sorry

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

For me that doesn't define anything, sorry

 

It's another way of saying what has been said many times, that the essence of Minories is the avoidance of reverse curves, leading to a more realistic appearance as trains of bogie carriages, with their exaggerated end overthrow on model railway radius curves, pass through the station throat. 

[Izzy]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

But...

 

Surely Minories was an end-to-end (and don't call me... etc, etc.)?

 

Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week. Try the mince pies.

I can hear Eric Morecambe  now…

 

Actually I think the MRC have turned their EM Minories into a through station, either end to end or roundy, not sure which. Having seen a video somewhere of it I wasn’t that taken. Somehow in general terms CJF just managed to hit all the right buttons with the original and forms the basis for much adaption where desired within the basic concept, which as this thread illustrates has stood the test of time.

[KeithMacdonald]

23 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I can hear Eric Morecambe now…

 

Morecambe Minories?

I've got all the right pieces of track - but not necessarily in the right order.

[JohnR]

7 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Morecambe Minories?

I've got all the right pieces of track - but not necessarily in the right order.

 

Can't see the (baseboard) join

[RJS1977]

I could imagine Eric going up to the Modelu stand:

 

"If you want me to be a goner.

Make me a model of Des O'Connor!"

[Nearholmer]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

Actually I think the MRC have turned their EM Minories into a through station, either end to end or roundy, not sure which. Having seen a video somewhere of it I wasn’t that taken

I’ve seen it n the flesh, and it’s one on which I’ll take my mother’s advice: if you can find nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Nearholmer

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

Actually I think the MRC have turned their EM Minories into a through station, either end to end or roundy, not sure which.

 

This one?

https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/layouts/minories/

[JohnR]

I think it was better when it was a terminus...

[Nearholmer]

Very definitely.

 

It began as a well executed classic Minories.

[t-b-g]

At exhibitions, there is no doubt that a "roundy roundy" is much easier to operate than a terminus. Run one round, switch loops, send another one round and so on.

 

For holding the interest of an operator, there is no doubt in my mind that a good terminus to fiddle yard system takes some beating. They are also much easier to transport and take up less floor space at a show and the ratio of fiddle yard to scenic layout is usually much better.

 

The rebuilt through station version is about 75% fiddle yard and 25% scenic by board surface area, which just seems a wrong balance to me.

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

This one?

https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/layouts/minories/

 

I notice from this link that the layout is still a terminus for passenger workings, but through goods workings can also take place.

The layout is also still available for exhibitions in its original form.

 

Personally I agree with TBG that I'm not a big fan of roundy layouts where most of the circuit is offstage as the trains spend longer moving off-stage than on!

[Nearholmer]

57 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The rebuilt through station version is about 75% fiddle yard and 25% scenic by board surface area, which just seems a wrong balance to me.

Ah, you’ve said what I was shy of saying, although my impression was that, in floor space terms, it was only about 10% scenic. There was something about the way they displayed it when I saw it that made that wrong balance especially apparent. Also, the scenic part looked very unloved, like a theatre where millions had been lavished on the back of house, while the sets had been allowed to decay, and the actors were simply going through their lines without feeling. 

[JohnR]

I would have thought the non scenic curves would have lent themselves to being put into a cutting with retaining walls, buildings, roadside scenes etc above....

[Izzy]

I’ve come to the conclusion that many roundy’s are too much back-of-house for my liking. There have been a few, such as the marvellous 3mm Ballyconnell Road and the late David Jenkinson’s Dent that get the balance right, but for me, like t-g-b, a terminus wins hands down, especially if you are a lone modeller as I am. Another reason I think why Minories has such wide appeal. 

[john new]

19 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that many roundy’s are too much back-of-house for my liking. There have been a few, such as the marvellous 3mm Ballyconnell Road and the late David Jenkinson’s Dent that get the balance right, but for me, like t-g-b, a terminus wins hands down, especially if you are a lone modeller as I am. Another reason I think why Minories has such wide appeal. 

And some where if you can see it the stock in the storage lops/fiddle yard is more interesting than the scenic bit out front. 

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, john new said:

And some where if you can see it the stock in the storage lops/fiddle yard is more interesting than the scenic bit out front. 

 

Many layouts - not just roundy-roundy.

[Nearholmer]

I especially don’t “get” the many home, never to be exhibited, layouts shown in magazines that follow the exhibition trend of a huge FY gobbling-up 50% of the footprint.  At home, it is possible without too much difficulty to hide the FY and have a much larger scenic area, especially given that most people seem to use the FY as a magazine for fixed rakes.

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I especially don’t “get” the many home, never to be exhibited, layouts shown in magazines that follow the exhibition trend of a huge FY gobbling-up 50% of the footprint.  At home, it is possible without too much difficulty to hide the FY and have a much larger scenic area, especially given that most people seem to use the FY as a magazine for fixed rakes.

I guess home layout owners purchase too much and then need ever larger fiddleyards to store their trains.

 

I know I’ve been guilty of this and only recently started thinning out my stock.  Still have too much, even after selling Gresley and Collett coaches,  some of my Mark 1s are sat in boxes as no space on my cassettes for them.  Not helped by my penchant for parcels vehicles.

 

I think people also like variety in train movements without having to spend time marshalling stock so easier to have lots of trains in the fiddleyard.

 

Of course you could scenic through fiddleyard and separate passenger vehicles into coach sidings and freight stock into a yard. My dad did that and it worked out well - like a mini Willesden.