RMweb Premium Coryton Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 Today, working at height means any point at which you leave the ground, there is no defined minimum height, or at least there shouldn't be in any SMS that reflects modern regulations and best practice. In short, unless you have a suitable strongpoint+harness+standby man+other appropriate PPE+rescue plan then no working at height is permitted. This sounds a bit extreme. The corporate health and safety course I went on a few years ago made it clear that there were strict rules about using stepladders for short jobs (e.g. changing a light bulb) but did not say that they could not be used. If no working at any height above the ground is permitted without a safety harness, what about a theatre stage with an orchestra pit in front? Or staff (or passengers) on a railway platform? Climbing into the cab of a 66 from track level? How about people on pavements? If there is no minimum height... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 This sounds a bit extreme. The corporate health and safety course I went on a few years ago made it clear that there were strict rules about using stepladders for short jobs (e.g. changing a light bulb) but did not say that they could not be used. If no working at any height above the ground is permitted without a safety harness, what about a theatre stage with an orchestra pit in front? Or staff (or passengers) on a railway platform? Climbing into the cab of a 66 from track level? How about people on pavements? If there is no minimum height... The Regulations at quite clear - working at any height above (even that 12 inches already mentioned) or below ground level is covered by the Working At Height Regulations. But effectively anything below 2 metres above ground level can be assessed by a proper risk assessment and measures which are considered appropriate (to the level of risk) should then be put in place. If the risk assessment considers that a step ladder is a safe method of working (and I don't like the things one bit in any case) is a safe method for the job in hand then that is the answer. The key is for the risk to be assessed by an experienced and trained person who knows how to both recognise any risks and make them ALARP (As Low As Reasonably Practicable). The tree surgeons I occasionally use to trim the trees in my back garden (and who do a lot of work for NR as it happens) use the normal British approach to the job (by climbing the trees) and they always cary out a risk assessment before starting work - with me drawing attention to any particular hazards, it only takes a few minutes because they know how to work on trees and I know my back garden. . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 The Regulations at quite clear - working at any height above (even that 12 inches already mentioned) or below ground level is covered by the Working At Height Regulations. But effectively anything below 2 metres above ground level can be assessed by a proper risk assessment and measures which are considered appropriate (to the level of risk) should then be put in place. If the risk assessment considers that a step ladder is a safe method of working (and I don't like the things one bit in any case) is a safe method for the job in hand then that is the answer. The key is for the risk to be assessed by an experienced and trained person who knows how to both recognise any risks and make them ALARP (As Low As Reasonably Practicable). The tree surgeons I occasionally use to trim the trees in my back garden (and who do a lot of work for NR as it happens) use the normal British approach to the job (by climbing the trees) and they always cary out a risk assessment before starting work - with me drawing attention to any particular hazards, it only takes a few minutes because they know how to work on trees and I know my back garden. . Well that sounds reasonable by today's standards. Bon Accord's post which I may have misinterpreted seemed to be saying that "strongpoint+harness+standby man+other appropriate PPE+rescue plan" was required for all working at height without any minimum height whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The chap in the cess (without a helmet) should read Told you the weed killer aint working see whats growing now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Well that sounds reasonable by today's standards. Bon Accord's post which I may have misinterpreted seemed to be saying that "strongpoint+harness+standby man+other appropriate PPE+rescue plan" was required for all working at height without any minimum height whatsoever. Something at low level - that being where the consequences of falling are minimal - can be dealt with as Mike says, but something as high as the signal gantry pictured earlier warrants the precautions mentioned previously. In most industries that is. The most recent WAH rescue course I attended was earlier this year (the previous was some years back) and every year the regulations get stricter. Quite simply it's because people are still being seriously injured, disabled and killed on a regular basis. Most of these incidents oddly do not occur in situations of extreme height/difficulty as they are invariably strictly controlled and well planned tasks, but at lower/moderate heights when undertaking mundane and routine tasks. Climbing 15 feet or so to a signal bracket to attend to a lamp, wire etc is a textbook example of the kind of low level/routine/mundane task which is statistically far more likely to cause injury or worse. With my present employer it is mandatory that all individuals who may have cause to work at height must attend a WAH awareness and rescue course which is then refreshed every 5 years. Working at height is not permitted to take place unless a minimum of three WAH rescue trained individuals are available (not necessarily on scene, but available at a few minutes notice) to act as a rescue team. For that, all locations have dedicated WAH rescue equipment which would be used in such an instance. We never have any problems making the numbers up as it is a mandatory course for everyone in the respective departments. This is far from being a unique situation within our company, but is particularly widespread. On my most recent course were quite a range of backgrounds, e.g. blokes from oil rigs, specialist window cleaners, council electricians (street lamps etc). Edited June 23, 2016 by Bon Accord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Wow, you really do have a problem with simple rules. If you don't want to abide by them, don't work for Network Rail? Agreed - Get a bit fed-up with this guy thinks he can run the Network better than anybody else and obviously has a HUGE chip on his shoulder, thinks he can always bad-mouth everyone else's opinions, nobody on this forum has as much experience as him, etc. I've reported his posts on several occasions ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Can we get this thread back to what it was, old photos of railwaymen doing what they did best. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 Something at low level - that being where the consequences of falling are minimal - can be dealt with as Mike says, but something as high as the signal gantry pictured earlier warrants the precautions mentioned previously. In most industries that is. The most recent WAH rescue course I attended was earlier this year (the previous was some years back) and every year the regulations get stricter. Quite simply it's because people are still being seriously injured, disabled and killed on a regular basis. Most of these incidents oddly do not occur in situations of extreme height/difficulty as they are invariably strictly controlled and well planned tasks, but at lower/moderate heights when undertaking mundane and routine tasks. Climbing 15 feet or so to a signal bracket to attend to a lamp, wire etc is a textbook example of the kind of low level/routine/mundane task which is statistically far more likely to cause injury or worse. With my present employer it is mandatory that all individuals who may have cause to work at height must attend a WAH awareness and rescue course which is then refreshed every 5 years. Working at height is not permitted to take place unless a minimum of three WAH rescue trained individuals are available (not necessarily on scene, but available at a few minutes notice) to act as a rescue team. For that, all locations have dedicated WAH rescue equipment which would be used in such an instance. We never have any problems making the numbers up as it is a mandatory course for everyone in the respective departments. This is far from being a unique situation within our company, but is particularly widespread. On my most recent course were quite a range of backgrounds, e.g. blokes from oil rigs, specialist window cleaners, council electricians (street lamps etc). In more than a few years of working in areas with Lampmen, and on occasion doing lamps myself) I never heard of one falling off a signal and I never heard any old tales of lampies falling or being injured. It would be very interesting to see the statistics on incidents in respect of Lampmen falling off signals - mind you I did know of one who tripped over his own feet while walking, and he wasn't even carrying any lamps. anyway good to see we're back to a proper picture - hope they weren't on duty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 hope they weren't on duty! Well, lets just say many of my now retired collogues had some very interesting stories to tell on that score....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 Many many years ago when I was a secondman I was with a lovely old boy sadly no longer with us. This night I was 23.19 Boulby, this driver put me in the seat and said make a point Russ I want to be on the three o'clock van. Knowing that this chap loved his Morris marina I said "on the van #####, what's wrong with the car?" He replies "F*****G hell I've had far too much to drink to drive that b****d!" The bloke never had an incident and had a huge route card. The rail had a lot of real characters then. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I couldn't find a photo that depicted train drivers moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 I couldn't find a photo that depicted train drivers moaning. I know we do moan a bit but I think especially in BR days we were a happy bunch! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I know we do moan a bit but I think especially in BR days we were a happy bunch! A moaning driver is a happy driver. If there isnt anything to moan about then we are not happy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I think the need for full hv clothing came about after a couple of near misses caused by track staff working bent over and not been fully visible to passing trains. Indeed it did - the worker concerned was bending over to look at something in the 4ft while wearing only a high vis top and blue jeans (on the Cambrian line through mid Wales). As he bent over the orange top disappeared from view so an approaching train driver almost failed to spot the person until it was too late. Before I saw the briefing materials I was of the opinion that "all orange" was more about cooperate identity (NR having recently taken infrastructure maintenance and staff like me back in house not long before the time the incident in Wales occurred) than anything else. After said briefing however, and a particularly effective video presentation my mindset had changed completely - and that change had everything to do with the fact that the activity featured (bending down to look at stuff in the 4ft) is one we undertake very frequently while on the line and how an 'all orange' PPE policy could be shown to make a very real difference in terms of drivers being able to spot us. I have yet to receive a similarly effective explanation that justifies the policy of mandatory hard hat wearing, or to a lesser extent safety glasses at all times. However to go back on topic, we recently were shown a video montage of how work (and indeed fashions) have changed through the ages. Its interesting to consider how things have evolved and if I can find it I will add a suitable link as it could bring back a few memories for some ex BR staff. Edited June 23, 2016 by phil-b259 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted June 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2016 A Pullman Steward makes use of the loading time at Bath Spa to open a bottle for his passengers aboard the 17:00 Bath - Eastbourne VSOE on 25th June 2016, drawing much comment from passengers waiting for the following 17:06 Sprinter to Weymouth, which doesn't even carry a trolley service. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The three at P. Risbro i am certain they are Banbury men on the 4.15 ex paddington but I cannot remember their names. Will ask one of my old drivers next time I see him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Bescot was very lively when I was there in the late 60's early 70's. Even watched the M6 being built. How the locals lived with the noise of those retarders on the down hump I shall never know. bescotbeasts posts are enlightening for me ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted July 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2016 After my previous photo from Bath Spa showing the Steward on the VSOE, two much more mundane images from yesterday. The driver of 158959 looks back along the platform to confirm that the crowds have all boarded the 08:31 to Cardiff (1F06 0600 ex Portsmouth Harbour). This train was especially busy with many standing passengers throughout the length of the train. A few minutes later the driver of 150122 passes the time of day with a member of platform staff as they wait for departure time (2V90 0643 Weymouth Town - Bristol Temple Meads). The train arrived a minute early and with the crowds all on the train ahead a few minutes chat are most welcome before the serious business of safely despatching the train. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 More info. http://returntograntham.co.uk/tag/east-coast-main-line/ 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Self indulgent shot on this occasion. Yours truly captured in charge of 47204 on the Hereford-Albion leg of the Waterston-Albion tanks, between Madeley Jcn and Cosford on Saturday 20th April 1985. A14-(JC6-073) by Paul James, on Flickr And in the oil terminal at Albion, with my guard waiting to start back with the return empties. A24-(JC6-081) by Paul James, on Flickr Paul J. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Its so good to see a photo of two happy smiling chaps thanks more of same I think will be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pobrien Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Train spotters of the 1960's ! https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28158094106/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28192171905/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28114220621/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28114190761/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28114190741/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/28114190691/in/dateposted-public/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Volunteers at Llanfair Caereinion waiting for the demonstration goods to depart 5th September 2015. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scott Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 A Pullman Steward makes use of the loading time at Bath Spa to open a bottle for his passengers aboard the 17:00 Bath - Eastbourne VSOE on 25th June 2016, drawing much comment from passengers waiting for the following 17:06 Sprinter to Weymouth, which doesn't even carry a trolley service. 20160625_0039b.jpg A few years back I spent 4years commuting between Moreton in Marsh and reading. In that time there was a floating group of about 12 of us who actually talked to each other and regularly occupied coach D in the HST.For christmas birthdays etc we would organise a bucks fiz breakfast. The reaction of some of our fellow travelers to popping a bottle of bubly needed to be seen. No fun please we are commuters hardly covers it 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer_London Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Some late- and early-hours pictures from past months: An Engineers' train Baker Street platform 1: Conferring about work in the possession at the end of platforms 3/4 Baker Street: On another day, a member of station staff does the pre-service check of platforms 3/4 at Baker Street. Traction Current is still off on the tracks leading North, shown by the 'three cherries' indicators: Work party with an Engineers' train in Finchley Road southbound platform, waiting to progress southwards to the work site. Another day, and the Engineers' train party again waiting to head south into the possession from Finchley Road. A picture that didn't work as planned but instead caught a station staff member 'lamping' the departure of the last Northbound Chesham train: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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