RMweb Premium Colin Posted August 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2012 I thought only women were reading fifty shades. I read the Kindle sample and it really is bad apalllingly bad writing. Ideal I suppose for a masochist lover of the English language ;-) I think the answer to Boris's second question is that you'd be abnormal if you didn't experience this from time to time. Don't you mean a sado-masochist lover? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dymstocklr Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Boris I suspect it's not just 'anyone' who feels like you. I bet it's just about everyone who's ever tried to cobble a few kits together! I suspect it's usually a mistake to leave a job on a 'problem'. But easier said than done - as the pile of part built kits in my workshop bear testament! Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 *hollow laughter* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruciethefish Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I've had to 'polish' many a 'richard' in my time;- I think MTK were probably the worst, particularly when very good, regular customers wanted one of their prototype diesel kits made up. The sides each consisted of 3 cast panels, none of which were the same size, shape or thickness, so I'd take a big file, give each one a straight top edge, square off the butt joins, then lay them face down against a ruler for soldering, cutting down whichever half ended up longest to match the other. The final result was never satisfactory to my eye, & I used to feel intense embarrassment when asking the poor customer for a fee which reflected about half the hours put into the job.. So, to answer the question, you're by no means alone;- As for normal, only you can say..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr roarke Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Hi Many years ago, when the Wigan exhibition was at the college, i bought an O gauge MTK kit for a Q1 and an Oakville chassis to fit. When i opended the box and decided to build the tender first (as you do) i found the sides were both the same hand. Good start. The "instructions" were a disaster. Photocopied sheets that were so black they were indiscernable. Also all the brake parts looked as though a handful of assorted types had just been thrown in the box. In the end it took me 5 years to finish the kit, as when i came to a major problem it would go back in the drawer for 6 months or so. I am glad i did not let the problems defeat me, and if you put the loco next to a more modern offering you would certainly see the difference. But that loco is still my favourite as i know all the trials and tribulations i had building it. It will be running on UPSAN DOWNS at Peterborough and York so come and see it there. The Oakville chassis went together with no problems at all. The box for the body kit had a notice on it stateing that you needed a screwdriver and a hammer to build it. I think the hammer was to bang youreselve over the head with. So carry on. it is worth it in the end George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted August 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2012 I have a Kirk LNER suburban coach kit half built, paint spattered by a cr@ppy Hycote spraycan. It has been waiting it's turn in the paint stripper for about 5 years ...... The plan was to build this and a matching driving end coach for my BR Standard class 2 tank to potter about with. Don't ask when I'm going to finish it ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Hmm. Maybe its time to have a clear out myself. Part built pair of 2-Bils, Several Southern Pride kits, and a Branchlines O Terrier that I just never managed to get on with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJones Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 My Festiniog Railway layout has stalled after a grand total of one part finished carriage. The Cambrian project is at least on going with part finished boards,part finished track and some part finished rolling stock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 You're not alone Boris. The question is, is it the kit and a natural reaction which we'd all share to a sub par kit, or is it something deeper? I think personally that there's fair too many kits in the model railway world which are designed as if the person making it was an astute and experienced engineer, or someone who was particularly learned in the art of making things out of nothing. Then you have to contend with the fact that many kits don't come with gearboxes or wheels and the total cost of the project against the time spent to buy the whole project, plus the many and assorted specialist tools you need, and the whole scenario when played against the backdrop of job/family/etc looks ridiculous. The one thing I am taking solace in, is that there are now people waking up to the fact that time/money/space/effort isn't in big reserves for the vast majority of their potential consumers, and there's one person in particular on this forum who is designing a kit which will make a lot of money in my view (most of it coming from me!). The two things which sum up the kit: accuracy of prototype, and simplicity of design. I can't begin to profess my frustration with modelling obscure prototypes or ones for which RTR is not of an acceptable standard, for which the only option in most cases are kits, and they are simply too costly to have the number you need, and then you don't have the time to build them or have the money to be a cheque book modeller either (not that there's anything wrong with that either, give me a lottery win and I'll be the biggest cheque book modeller on RMweb!) I think model railways as a whole need to change their thinking about how they get people to continue in the hobby, and one of those things is the ridiculous style of kit for which you don't get wheels or gearboxes, and an assortment of whitemetal parts, mostly distorted or missing details due to an overused mould. Accuracy, simplicity, cost and time taken to build should be the four most adhered to concepts in the design of a kit and from what I've seen, they rarely are. For all the slating they may get in the press at times, I think Airfix get it right more often than not with their injection moulded kits, and it does make me wonder why we haven't seen anything similar, bar the frankly awful kits Dapol inherited many years ago and continue to sell. But then on the flip side, in the above rant I do a disservice to those kit manufacturers out there who DO provide some absolutely breathtaking kits which, when built up by a pro, look real, not just realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Having said which, some modellers don't like wheels or gearboxes with their kits, they like to choose their own. But personally I agree, also about kits with badly fitting or missing parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I don't want to be paying for wheels and motors with the kit. It is bad enough that I have to pay for them to get a ready to run body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have an LNWR van kit which I have paint stripped three times because for some mysterious reason none of my paint jobs have satisfied. On top of that I have not been able to get the right type of buffers, and the brake gear was a complete mystery until I managed to buy a copy of LNWR Wagons Volume 2. I must have been started and stopped on that job for about 5 years, and it's only a 'bog simple' O Gauge wagon kit!!! I think it must be amazing to be the kind of modeller who can build anything, up to and including an articulated steam engine in etched brass, in about a fortnight without hitting any snags. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think it must be amazing to be the kind of modeller who can build anything, up to and including an articulated steam engine in etched brass, in about a fortnight without hitting any snags. Who is the modeller that can do that? Own up time! Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted September 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2012 I agree with SAC Martin about the ridiculous difficulties faced by the kit building modeller but providing wheels in kits guarantees another way for the kit to be wrong. Imagine MTK had provided wheelsets in their loco kits, one would have been lucky to get a set of wheels that matched each other let alone be the right diameter or shape! I have rather too many kits in my drawer and I suspect that no more than 20% of all kits sold actually gets built by the original purchaser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have rather too many kits in my drawer and I suspect that no more than 20% of all kits sold actually gets built by the original purchaser. In conversation with a well known kit manufacturer, I did once suggest that he should not sell his brass etchings in boxes to hide in the drawer but polished, mounted and framed to hang on the wall. The upside is that you could admire them before they were built. The downside is that you would be reminded regularly of the size of your contribution to the European Unmade Kit Mountain (and, more worryingly, so would your other half). Best wishes Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yes you are not alone. I saw the light and moved into 7mm back in the eraly 90's. For various reasons the first kit that i bought was an Andy Beaton 9F. Not the best starter kit for a beginner in 7mm. I struggled with it and eventually got a running chassis with coupling rods but no valve gear or connecting rods. The only way that the coupling rods would clear the wheelnuts on the front two pairs of drivers was by putting joggles in them. I actually saw a sample on the manufactureres stand at a show with this as the solution. The cylinders were too close together. There wer other problems and the kit is still at the back of my cupboard along with others. I had worse problems with kits from other well known makers but ahve learned how to solve them over the years. One kit seemed to be 5mm out in several key dimensions, including the height of the tender and the diameter of the boiler, not to mention the chasis being inclined at 1 in 20. I put that back in the cupboard for a year then with an exhibition looming and needing the loco for a show I attacked it and solderd all sorts of extra bits of brass in some places and attacked the frames with a grinding wheel. I was rather annoyed about this and wrote a letter to the O Gauge Guild gazette suggesting that all kits should have the minimum radius curve that they are designed for on the box but got no support. All I would say is keep thinking about the problem and a solution will eventually emerge. I no know how to solve the 9F problem, by putting shims behind the cylinders and motion brackets, but am too busy building other things but one day 92208 will run. Don't get despondent. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Building Beaminster Road is a similar problem, before any further progress, every little bit takes ages to make or the glue needs four days to dry. This means that the visible achievement is negligible and it appears that the layout will become one vast 'kit at the back of the cupboard' however this was in April: and this was today: Now don't be a bunch of smart arses and say that there isn't much difference but all the major scenic blocks are in place although some need grass. The point is that that progress is slow but by remembering where you were just three months ago can be very encouraging. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 That looks really good to me Tim. Nice open spaces just like the real thing. I don't like cluttered layouts. Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2012 Building Beaminster Road is a similar problem, before any further progress, every little bit takes ages to make or the glue needs four days to dry. This means that the visible achievement is negligible and it appears that the layout will become one vast 'kit at the back of the cupboard' however this was in June: and this was today: Now don't be a bunch of smart arses and say that there isn't much difference but all the major scenic blocks are in place although some need grass. The point is that that progress is slow but by remembering where you were just three months ago can be very encoraging. Tim That's an excellent way of looking at it. I find that having to do updates for the club newsletter is a good discipline because it makes you think about what has been done since the last update and it usually surprises me. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 .....I think it must be amazing to be the kind of modeller who can build anything, up to and including an articulated steam engine in etched brass, in about a fortnight without hitting any snags. Who is the modeller that can do that? Own up time! His name is "Metropolitan". I think 24 hours to build a loco kit is his current record. In conversation with a well known kit manufacturer, I did once suggest that he should not sell his brass etchings in boxes to hide in the drawer but polished, mounted and framed to hang on the wall. ..... I already do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 His name is "Metropolitan". I think 24 hours to build a loco kit is his current record. Wow!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I was very lucky. The first 7mm etched brass kit I built was one of Jim McGowan's Connoisseur range (an LNER J50/3). Went together well, all the parts fitted and the only challenges (I was new to etched brass) were forming the curved tank front corners and the GNR style cab. The second kit I built was a J52 saddle tank. This was an epic struggle and if it had been my first one I doubt that I could have finished it. Later on I built another J50 (a J50/1 - the shorter GNR-built one with the coal cage bunker). This kit was a nightmare. I ended up throwing quite a bit of it away and replacing it with parts I made that would fit. I built a LSWR 700 Black Motor for a friend. Such a badly designed kit, etched from the softest brass I have ever encountered, quite a lot of that went into the scrap brass bin as well. If it had been mine I would have chucked the whole thing. On the other hand I built a brass D & S GNR horsebox - this was such a good kit, with every part fitting exactly, that it didn't matter that the "instructions" were skimpy to say the least. The first brass kit that I have ever started on Saturday morning and finished assembly just before Sunday lunch. So, it depends so much on the kit design and the quality of the artwork. It's easy to lose heart when the kit presents one problem after another. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 This is a very valid point. Kits vary enormously in their quality, and if you are new to the 'game' you don't know which ones to avoid. Pick the wrong one, and a beginner may end up so daunted that they give up the game or return to RTR. I have come across not a few 7mm wagon kits that are for all practical purposes unbuildable. It's a matter of either give up or throw away many parts and replace from scratch - which defeats the whole object. On the other hand, a well-designed kit is a joy to construct, and that is how it should be, given that this is supposed to be a hobby, not a punishment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
49395 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I also get a bit like that from time to time, having a load of stuff to build doesn't help. Its easy to get distracted and start something else. Having seen the offending loco, I think you've had the patience of a saint with it. I'm sure you'll sort something Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2012 You're not alone Boris... My A1 Models 'Class 05' is in that catagory, designed by 'professional kit designer' Rod Neep. I reckon he drew the artwork for the etches blindfolded for a bet then didn't bother to do a test build. For example, how else could you explain that the etched holes for the buffers to locate in are at different heights? Its had a coat of paint now, every so often I do a bit more to it, mainly because I paid good money for it and I hate waste. Runs nicely though... And there are missing parts - only stubbornness is keeping me going, but it is a stupid loco for me to like - I have no ex LT underground trains and about one suitable wagon. I will thank IOWR though for sending me some usefull closeups of the bonnet. Messed up the grill mesh and no spares available. Coupling rods are horrid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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