Jon Fitness Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Plate 82 in "Southern Signals" by (signalman) George Pryer shows a slightly elevated disc ground signal at Andover. The disc even has a white diamond on the red arm. The caption points out that in SR days, this one signal operated for 5 routes. I can find no example of either stacked or adjacent ground signals in this useful book. One of those "DOH" moments on my part...I have that book, maybe I should read more of it instead of looking at the pictures . Thanks JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 On page 29 of the same book, George describes the siting of discs on a 'standard' Southern arrangement, with a single disc reading to multiple routes. That said, there was the odd location where multple discs were fitted, for example Boscarne Junction. They were a separate side-by-side installation. This may have been a LSWR period installation and I cannot find any clear photos showing their design. Here they were outside the signal box, at the toe of the first point for the running and siding lines. If anybody has a copy of the locking table, they may be able to confirm their use. I'm stuck at work at the moment I will certainly be digging that book out of my collection! Many thanks JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Bit quiet on here at the moment! Anyway, random signalling question alert! Did the Southern Railway stack their standard shunt disc signals for multiple routes like the GW and LMS or were they laid out seperately like the LNE? Can't seem to find a photo to show me one way or 't'other. JF The LNER did stack their discs. I'm at the 'suitable part acquisition' stage for a 12 inch to the foot model right now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2014 The LNER did stack their discs. I'm at the 'suitable part acquisition' stage for a 12 inch to the foot model right now.. Oh, that could be interesting - the only arrangement I have ever seen for 'stacked' discs on the Eastern was two on separate mounting of different heights one behind the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Oh, that could be interesting - the only arrangement I have ever seen for 'stacked' discs on the Eastern was two on separate mounting of different heights one behind the other. Similar to these two at Staddlethorpe Jct, now Gylberdyke Jct, and still in use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm awaiting word from the owner of the photo before i post. There appear to be two types of stacked discs other than mounting them on extended legs. One type appears a few times in pictures taken around Nottingham Victoria where the upright is taller and is stood alongside or behind a standard LNER upper quadrant disc. The other type is literally one disc stacked on top of the other. I intend to 'model' both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm awaiting word from the owner of the photo before i post. There appear to be two types of stacked discs other than mounting them on extended legs. One type appears a few times in pictures taken around Nottingham Victoria where the upright is taller and is stood alongside or behind a standard LNER upper quadrant disc. The other type is literally one disc stacked on top of the other. I intend to 'model' both. Then you'd better keep the hedge well trimmed for when I pass by on one of my occasional jaunts down the ECML Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm afraid any vegetation is firmly the NR side of the fence and seeing as nothing is trying to brake or accelerate in the area i doubt it'll get trimmed until it gets near the wires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Here's a link to one of the Nottingham Victoria shunts.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/8585994593/sizes/l Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Here we have Sandy 12/15 signals. These were for setting back over the wire worked points, down main to down sidings.. Many thanks to Peter Adds for permission to use his photo.. I have found a Henry Williams and RSCo discs but the latter is seized solid. I have all the parts but not the elbow grease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Here we have Sandy 12/15 signals. These were for setting back over the wire worked points, down main to down sidings.. Many thanks to Peter Adds for permission to use his photo.. Sandy 12.15 discs..jpg I have found a Henry Williams and RSCo discs but the latter is seized solid. I have all the parts but not the elbow grease. Ooh I like that! I may have to build a model of that...just because! Thanks all for your input. I have dug the SR signalling book out and it seems to confirm that the SR were quite easy-going with where the discs indicated you were shunting your train! Just one will do, you'll find where you're going when you get there! Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ooh I like that! I may have to build a model of that...just because! JF Exactly how i felt when i saw the picture. I'll race you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ooh I like that! I may have to build a model of that...just because! Thanks all for your input. I have dug the SR signalling book out and it seems to confirm that the SR were quite easy-going with where the discs indicated you were shunting your train! Just one will do, you'll find where you're going when you get there! Cheers JF It was allegedly a safety feature - it was considered that Drivers would exercise greater care to ensure that points were properly set etc if the route was not indicated (it also saved money of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It was allegedly a safety feature - it was considered that Drivers would exercise greater care to ensure that points were properly set etc if the route was not indicated (it also saved money of course).Hmm. A bit worrying for the driver if he's propelling a big raft of wagons!JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hmm. A bit worrying for the driver if he's propelling a big raft of wagons! JF That's what Guards and Shunters were for (sometimes ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Exactly how i felt when i saw the picture. I'll race you. Ooh I like that! I may have to build a model of that...just because! Exactly how i felt when i saw the picture. I'll race you.JF Some progress tonight. This is the Railway Signal Co disc that will form the upper part. It is marked correctly for what i want but has some detail differences from the Sandy double stack. It came apart surprisingly easy. I bet the next one will put up a struggle. The base will need to be cut off. I'm not looking forward to that. Even less appealing is the thought of trying to make a square cut. The operating arm is easy. One cut with the hacksaw then over to Mr Sticky and his welding gear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The first cut is the deepest... A dull damp morning here. Perfect day for angle grinder use, less chance of setting light to something etc. Armed with a couple of angle grinders and a goodly supply of cutting discs i set to work. To my surprise the base was cut off with barely touching one disc let alone the pile i'd prepared. In fact it took longer to find all the tools than to actually make the cut.. After a bit of trimming up and filing i offered to stem to an LNER RSCo disc (not the one it will sit on as these are a bit rare).. Held purely by gravity here is the result.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The first cut is the deepest... A dull damp morning here. Perfect day for angle grinder use, less chance of setting light to something etc. Armed with a couple of angle grinders and a goodly supply of cutting discs i set to work. To my surprise the base was cut off with barely touching one disc let alone the pile i'd prepared. In fact it took longer to find all the tools than to actually make the cut.. DSC07034.jpg After a bit of trimming up and filing i offered to stem to an LNER RSCo disc (not the one it will sit on as these are a bit rare).. Held purely by gravity here is the result.. DSC07035.jpg You're well ahead of me! I haven't started mine yet. Still looking for my etched LNER discs I thought I had.... JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 You're well ahead of me! I haven't started mine yet. Still looking for my etched LNER discs I thought I had.... JF I'm still trying to find the right sort of Henry Williams disc signal for the bottom. The scouts are out. Several railways are looking. Place yer bets as to where i end up going to get one.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I gave up looking for an HWD disc as i was offered a pile of bits that would do the job without wrecking a whole signal. A quick trip out to get the parts and a start could be made. After a quick clean up the two major parts were offered up to each other.. A bit of point soleplate was cut down to act as the fishplate between the two stems. This had to be marked up, drilled and tapped. The lower signal had to have it's lamp modified.. A 55/4 lamp just fits it still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Cracking job, and no welding required . JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Cracking job, and no welding required . JF The welding is yet to be done. I have made some compromises from the original at Sandy. On my one the lower disc is to remain operated as originally intended. The upper disc will have a vertical wheel on the bed timber the signal is mounted on and a chain/wire up to a modified return weight bar. There are two modifications to this bar. Firstly the offset at the weight end needs to be removed. This is to remove a clash as the weights on the bottom bar will hit the top bar/weights if left unmodified. The top bar when it is extended will need an offset so the wire is not in front of the lower disc. I've made these changes as the original was meant to be seen over a platform. Mine will be ground mounted and will be fairly close to the point they read over via mechanical detection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The welding is yet to be done. I have made some compromises from the original at Sandy. On my one the lower disc is to remain operated as originally intended. The upper disc will have a vertical wheel on the bed timber the signal is mounted on and a chain/wire up to a modified return weight bar. There are two modifications to this bar. Firstly the offset at the weight end needs to be removed. This is to remove a clash as the weights on the bottom bar will hit the top bar/weights if left unmodified. The top bar when it is extended will need an offset so the wire is not in front of the lower disc. I've made these changes as the original was meant to be seen over a platform. Mine will be ground mounted and will be fairly close to the point they read over via mechanical detection. Ah yes, I see what you mean after comparing it with the Sandy version. Both bars are different config. Is that where the welding is necessary or can you source different bars? JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have arranged a session with some oxy-propane and a fly press to get rid of the bends. The weight bar needs to be altered so it can be pulled down instead of from behind. Because it also needs to have a set in it to miss the bottom disc i have another weight bar that will get cut up and added so it sticks out forward from the pivot. This will slow things down a bit and the dreaded work thing looms too. It's probably going to be another week before i can make any more progress. At least the work involves steam engines, groundframes and a token machine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siphon208 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 HI Dave, Do any pics exist of the North box at Hooton? was it smaller than the now gone South box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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