mikemeg Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Mike, You did really well to get that tender flare looking so good. Is the flared section .015" throughout, right up to the top beading? This design is very different to Arthur's tenders where the tender side stops just above the bottom of the flared section. The flare is then half etched leaving only the beading as the full material thickness. Thus forming the flares is made very much easier, though care must be exercised when soldering the flared sections as the overlap is only around .015". The resulting flared sections are, of themselves, quite vulnerable but become much less vulnerable to damage as the three sides of the flare are joined at the tender rear. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted September 27, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yes, the sides and back are flat full thickness .015" with a half etch overlay to solder at the top. It has worked very well but it wasn't easy, even with proper bending bars whic the vast majority of modellers wouldn't have access to. The instructions just say "bend round a 1/4" bar" - which is at least twice the diameter which would be needed. As a kit designer myself I do worry about what the the customers can actually do and try to make things as easy as possible without using specialist tools. This isn't always possible but I do my best. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Michael, I wonder if I might ask you another question re this PDK tender? I know you've done the flares, now, but would it be possible to reduce the height of the tender sides and rear such that the actual tender sides and rear tops (.015" material) don't need to be formed to the flare i.e leaving around .020" to which the flare half etch could be soldered, after it has been formed to the curve. This presumes that the flared half etched overlay is sufficiently rigid, once formed, to support the coal rails. This would make the whole process of forming the flare very much easier, though would necessitate some care in actually reducing the height of the tender sides and rear and the attaching of the flared overlays to get them consistent, and level, across the tender sides and rear. This would remove the necessity for using bending bars and would allow the forming to be done around a suitable piece of 2.5 mm or 3.0 mm diameter rod on only half thickness material (.0075"). In effect, this process would then be almost the same as for Arthur's NER flared top tenders. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted September 27, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2012 Mark the parts and cut off with snips, very easy. There will be a bigger gap to fill to the coal plates of course, I usually do tender top flares this way when scratchbuilding but I solder the flares to the tender sides/end before bending as a rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 4, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2012 I've not had much time to post on this recently - or to finish building it yet but it's nearly done now. Front of almost completed tender, showing the upper fall plate, this one is hinged. I don't like cast white metal handbrake columns, especially open spindle types like these, the bracket casting wasn't bad though so I cut those off and drilled them through for brass wire. Steps and axleboxes have been fitted since this was taken. The back of the cab, bucket seats now fitted, cab floor extended back towards the tender, the lower fall plate is fixed to the loco footplate. Back to the loco frames now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 5, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2012 I made up the slidebars and crossheads before fitting the replacement slidebar bracket, I don't want to fit them until the frames are painted. The crosshead is a flat top piece with two half etched grooves, the two sides soldered in these with the little end of the con rod in between. A broach locates teh holes in line for soldering. Slidebars are laminated from 5 layers of .015" n/s, for the moment the front layer is left off. First mistake on the supplementary etch discovered - no drop links, these should have been a separate etch soldered to the front of the outer crosshead face but i forgot to transfer them from the original slidebar etch. Completed crosshead (minus drop link) test fitted in the slidebars, once it runs freely the front face can be added. The whole assembly will peg into the cylinder later. Connecting rods laminated now, plenty of solder on the top edge, then filed smooth like this. Finished by draw filing. One side finished, top of slidebars finished as for the con rod above. I now have what looks like the correct 3 bar arrangement with a wide flat top bar and two lower ones either side of the crosshead. This photo shows why this is essential for LNER locos, the con rod is able to move up into the gap between the two lower bars. The little end pin is a simple length of wire, no need for overscale nuts and bolts, I'll never need to dismantle it. Completed assembly test fitted in the cylinder with the con rod to check clearances, the slidebar bracket will fit in the slot in the frames. At this point I noticed that the cylinders should be slightly inclined, the kit left them horizontal, not too difficult to move them at this stage and make sure that the piston rod (not fitted yet) will line up with the driving crankpin. Next mistake discovered, I must have taken the height of the bracket from the centre portion of the running plate so I've had to cut the top off. Still it fits and locates the slidebars at the right height and angle, soldered in the frames now but not to the slidebars. The link bracket is fitted as supplied in the kit, it's a good attempt to do this in one piece with the lifting links but they shouldn't really be in the same plane as the outer bracket. There is no provision for the weighshaft itself - all it would have needed was a hole in the frame plate. Incidentally I always etch the position of weighshaft and link pivot in the frames, it makes accurate setting up much easier. Weighshaft fitted and lifting links cut off and moved inwards. This is all the tricky stuff done, cylinders can be finished now although I'll probably leave the front covers off until after painting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The crosshead itself seems quite involved. Would the cast brass equivalent from Comet have been quicker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 5, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yes of course it would be quicker but most cast crossheads are far too big (the ones in this kit are - and they are brass) and I hate filing lost wax castings to a good sliding fit. This way is fiddly but it works very smoothly and looks better in my opinion. More to follow on this on Monday, just about finished now but no time to post on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 8, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2012 Photos from Friday's work now. frames complete, brakes and steam sand gear, cylinder drains from brass wire. The kit includes etched ones which I don't use, curiously it didn't include the prominent rod connection which I would have... A representation built up from etched strip wasn't too difficult though. I put the cast valve chests on, then looked for the valve guides - but there aren't any and these are not easy to make. The gear looks a bit naked without them (as in the picture in the instructions) so they have to go on. The conjugating levers for the middle cylinder are behind these but are invisible from normal viewing angles so I've left them out, in the more usual position in front of the cylinders I normally fit them and make them work - even in mid gear they move noticeably. Cylinder wrappers were a bit long but easily cut down to fit. More important there are no guard irons in the kit, these came from a Finney A3, they are near enough. View from underneath shows pick up strips, added etched springs (from spares box as usual) and flat brake cross beams (my etch), ready for painting now. Frames sprayed with Halfords grey primer followed by satin black. Turning the wheels round by hand gets paint more or less everywhere. Paint scraped off where appropriate and motor/gearbox re-fitted, wheels cleaned as shown below. The top pulley on my milling machine has a rubber ring round it, frame is held against this to spin each wheelset in turn. A ground down needle file takes most of the paint off, finish with fine wet and dry. Coupling rods and slidebars/con rods re-fitted, all checked for free running at this stage - normally everything works perfectly and this one was no exception. I have soldered the slidebars to the bracket this time, they won't have to come off again. Valve gear and finished loco later today. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't think anyone could say these were the prettiest of locos, especially compared to the originals, but this is turning into a cracking model Mike! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't think anyone could say these were the prettiest of locos, especially compared to the originals, but this is turning into a cracking model Mike! I'll second that Paul! All being well, it won't be long before I see this beast in the flesh..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 8, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2012 LH side motion complete, most of this is from my supplementary etch. The return crank is a two part lamination and it is straight, not cranked like so many models, one lamination has a half etch on the back, the other on the front, this provides enough clearance. I etched two eccentric rods, one the same length as the PDK one, the other longer as it didn't look quite right. However the PDK length worked, the roller bearing cover is soldered on after the pin joint is made, it has a recess inside to cover the pin head. These should really be brass - I've put some on a test etch to get a supply of brass ones in future. The radius rod is laminated from two pieces in order to fork round the link/lifting link and the combining lever. the PDK weighshaft arms were too long, they clearly would not have gone into the boxes above the footplate. I copied the length of the combining lever from the kit - it turned out to be about 1.5mm too long. Normally the union link lies about horizontal when the pistons are at mid stroke. The combining lever was easily cut and shut behind the valve spindle guide. I think the con rod is too long, the pistons are almost touching the stuffing boxes at the end of the stroke. As usual it's obvious that the kit designer has not drawn the valve gear out properly, let alone moved the parts around on thedrawing to check movement - this is really easy with CAD design. View from below, shows the washer (slice of tube) to take up the difference between actual scale and 00 gauge, the con rod remains straight and parallel to the frames. Similarly the eccentric rod runs parallel, although this is not universal they usually do. Completed loco after testing, it will be washed and grit blasted before painting tomorrow. Some more additions to the kit include a representation of the injectors and a few extra rivets although I'm not sure these are visible. There is a noticeable rivetted joint in the firebox cladding just above the washout plugs on many LNER locos, the joint line is scribed on and the rivets are added with small dots of Plastic Padding Super Steel epoxy. This shrinks to a hemispherical shape as it cures so if you put the same amount on each time (with a cocktail stick) it produces neat consistent rivets. One more set of photos in a day or so then it can be handed over to Tim to add layers of dirt. I hope this has been interesting and instructive, I've enjoyed building this loco despite the occasional lunacy in the design and I'm very pleased with the result. Despite what I have said from time to time, this is a well designed kit which goes together extremely well and I would use it again. The complaints are mostly about things which could have just as easily been done right as wrong - common enough in kits but can be very frustrating. Next time I'll know what to alter before I start. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 She looks stunning Mike. Knocks spots off my previous B16 (part 3). Thank you for going the extra mile with her. I'll never forget your comments when I asked about more prototypical modifications to be made to it. You said 'I build a model of the locomotive, not the kit'. This certainly shows! Best 4mm B16 I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Best 4mm B16 I've seen. And me too. Lovely, just lovely. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hi Mike, A very nice and instructive build. Can you tell me what grit blasting equipment you are using please? Cheers....Morgan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Excellent build , thanks for posting. Are you selling add on bits for this kit as you mention etching rods etc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi Mike, A very nice and instructive build. Can you tell me what grit blasting equipment you are using please? Cheers....Morgan Cheap and cheerful Badger, now running off "budget compressor" from Eileens but I used to use it with a foot pump for many years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2012 Excellent build , thanks for posting. Are you selling add on bits for this kit as you mention etching rods etc ? Yes we have sold two sets of these at £7 (+£1 if posting), I think I have one more at the moment - first come first served. I wish I had had time to even part build the loco before I drew this as there are some errors in it (and it's on a production etch) but I used most of it in 61437 with the modifications detailed above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 .....As usual it's obvious that the kit designer has not drawn the valve gear out properly, let alone moved the parts around on thedrawing to check movement - this is really easy with CAD design..... That's something you could take up with Paul Hill, whose name appears on so many Crownline and PDK etches - I seem to recall he popped in to have a look at RMWeb a while back...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 13, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2012 First of all a close up of the cladding join and added rivets described earlier. Finished loco painted and varnished, I don't know what everyone else thinks but to me this looks just about right. Other side from the rear. I think I'll have to have one of these for my layout now, we do run a B16/3 built from a NuCast kit many years ago but that's nowhere near as good as this one. This thread will be continued by Tim now, once he gets the loco to add numbers/lettering and dirt. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Best 4mm B16 in my opinion Mike As a contrast here is my other rebuilt B16. This is when built from the kit with no modifications. I know which looks better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 A package arrived this morning with the postie (poor sod carrying that on his bike!). Since numbered and lettered up, here is how things stand before the dirt and grime goes on later this month. I still need to root out my class and shed transfers for the bufferbeam. And a broadside to finish..... As Tom has maybe mentioned before in this thread, this one was a rather unusual machine insofar as its branding was concerned. 61437 had a tender change in February 1950 and gained a tender still lettered LNER. Having said that, the condition the loco is in will hide most of the colour differences between cream and yellow lettering. Somewhere in the Yeadon volume covering the B16s is the photograph, though I forget the page number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Boy oh boy, what a stunner! As Tim says she is an odd locomotive regarding tender and loco numbering combination. Rather filthy too. Sadly I can't post a photo due to copyright, but I will check what page it is in the Yeadon Register. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Page 47 Superb Loco , it is in bit of a state in the photo !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Page 47 Superb Loco , it is in bit of a state in the photo !! It is rather! I'm hoping to reproduce its horrendous condition to a tee. I'd love to see that shot in colour, but there you go....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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