steve1 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It seems that Amtrak have to suffer their share of stupid road users: http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/Amtrak-Crossing-gate-down-in-Bakersfield-bound-train-crash-172485911.html steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Probably had a very important phone call to make. Unfortunately in this kind of stupidity he is not alone!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Indge Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Notice how quickly the wreckage was cleared, the signalling replaced and the line relaid and re-opened! In this country H & S would still be working out how much "Do not cross" tape to put around the scene. It would take our Railway Companies at least a week to sort this out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Idiots sans Frontierre. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The speed with which the line was repaired and reopened is commendable; why can't we do the same, or more to the point, why can't we do that anymore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Notice how quickly the wreckage was cleared, the signalling replaced and the line relaid and re-opened! In this country H & S would still be working out how much "Do not cross" tape to put around the scene. It would take our Railway Companies at least a week to sort this out. Brian, please provide evidence to support your allegation, namely the last time it took a week to re-open the line after a level crossing accident in Britain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Perhaps you could find an incident of comparable severity in the UK, i.e. in this case, after a level crossing incident which involved a passenger train derailment and associated damage to some 200 metres of track and signalling equipment, could Network Rail/Railtrack have managed to have the whole show back up and running in about 18 hours. (This incident occurred Monday afternoon, with the line back in service Tuesday morning) I think we'd be hard pushed to do it in these enlightened times, so all credit to the US company concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2012 There was another accident that day, less than 10 miles away but on another line, involving a freight train. I think that spot (OP) has had 3 similar accidents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Perhaps you could find an incident of comparable severity in the UK, i.e. in this case, after a level crossing incident which involved a passenger train derailment and associated damage to some 200 metres of track and signalling equipment, could Network Rail/Railtrack have managed to have the whole show back up and running in about 18 hours. (This incident occurred Monday afternoon, with the line back in service Tuesday morning) I think we'd be hard pushed to do it in these enlightened times, so all credit to the US company concerned. I agree that the line here was re-opened very quickly and those involved deserve praise. We can sometimes do reasonably well in Britain also; After the Class 90 derailment at Bletchley in February this year, 2 of the 4 lines were re-opened the same day (within 13 hours), this on a route with OHLE involved as well as track and signalling equipment. On the other hand, after the Ufton Nervet level crossing crash in 2004, it took 10 days to re-open the railway, however in this tragic case 7 people lost their lives. I would imagine that some of the delay would have been caused by the Police/RAIB/legal aspects, rather than inactivity by the rail industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2012 Although not a level crossing collision it is worthwhile mentioning the Harrow & Wealdstone double collision of 1952 - we are almost at its 60th anniversary as it occurred on 08 October. Now the interesting bit - the Harrow collision involved 3 trains and a large number of casualties resulted from the considerable destruction wrought to 2 of them together with 3 locos reduced to a pile of badly damaged parts. It occurred at 08.19 on the 8th, the Slow Lines were reopened 'early' on the 9th and the Fast Lines, on which the collisions occurred, were reopened on the 12th with full normal freight train working restored on the 13th; but it did take a while longer to put the station back together. The time in which the railway could be reopened back then, and more or less up to the end of BR's existence is a totally different ball game from the long drawn out machinations which tend to follow such incidents nowadays, Ladbroke Grove being one of the worst examples and Ufton Crossing another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would imagine that some of the delay would have been caused by the Police/RAIB/legal aspects, rather than inactivity by the rail industry. Spot on, if it's a crime scene then nothing can be done until the police release it. There's also having to abide by NR and the TOC/FOC operating practices for screening and evidence. We had a derailment a couple of months back and were running trains past within 3 hours and back to linespeed the following morning. It's better to get things moving than sort it all out immediately and clear it overnight in the quiet period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think they were lucky with this one - they don't always end so well... http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2011/miriam_nv.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 More worrying is the attitude of the typical car-minded American who commented underneath the Bakersfield News item drawing High Speed rail into the danger argument "The motorist won't see the 200mph train approaching" Presumably he won't see the warning lights and barriers, either. It just a shame the Americans don't seem to have heard of bridges.... but then I guess the motorists will drive off them and fall on the track and that'll be the railway's fault, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It just a shame the Americans don't seem to have heard of bridges.... but then I guess the motorists will drive off them and fall on the track and that'll be the railway's fault, too. Once again, its a matter of scale. We probably have more crossings and overpasses in the state of Texas than there are crossings and overpasses in all of the UK. US railroads do actively seek to close crossings and build overpasses, but the overpass construction is the responsibility of the state or federal government, not the RR. And they often don't want to shell out the several million dollars per overpass cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2012 Once again, its a matter of scale. We probably have more crossings and overpasses in the state of Texas than there are crossings and overpasses in all of the UK. So you have more than c.6,500 public level crossings (that includes footpath crossings) and more than c.8,000 overbridges (latest NR figures in both instances on its network of 10,072 route miles). According to State of Texas info the rail network in the state was 14,982 route miles at the end of 2008 so on average there will be an overbridge approximately somewhat less than every 2 miles (if they were evenly distributed) in order to equate to the Network Rail total. N.B. these figures are solely for Network Rail - I can't find data for Northern Ireland although there are 1188 overbridges in Eire on 1277 route miles (almost one per mile) so on the 180 route miles in Northern Ireland there are likely to be another c.150 overbridges. And of course those figures exclude the heritage sector and the odd instances of branch lines which are not owned by NR (e.g Boulby Potash branch). So probably at least 8,200 overbridges in total crossing running lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 How quickly or otherwise a line is repaired is surely secondary to the fact of the incident? Note I say incident because it is hardly an accident when some bonehead ignores a crossing. Unfortunately this seems to be happening more often over here . Only today I was behind a women driving a car full of kids who stopped in the middle of a two rail crossing in Shrewsbury because the traffic had stopped on the other side. There were no flashing lights and the barriers were up, but stop in the middle of the crossing! Even without laws and rules what about self preservation? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It seems that Amtrak have to suffer their share of stupid road users: There is a theory that Amtrak suffer alot more than their "fair share" of incidents. No one has yet to come up with a viable conclusion as to why, but one theory is alot of chancers are caught out by their higher speed when compared to the average freight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So you have more than c.6,500 public level crossings (that includes footpath crossings) and more than c.8,000 overbridges (latest NR figures in both instances on its network of 10,072 route miles). The figures I found said there were over 11,500 grade crossings in Texas. I would be willing to bet you could easily find a couple thousand over or under passes just in the cities of Houston, Dallas and Ft Worth. So yes, I think the state of Texas has as many crossings and overpasses as the UK. Easily. According to State of Texas info the rail network in the state was 14,982 route miles at the end of 2008 so on average there will be an overbridge approximately somewhat less than every 2 miles (if they were evenly distributed) in order to equate to the Network Rail total. OK. Welcome to Texas. I worked at Lloyd Yard, Spring, Texas and within two mile radius of the yard there were 7 overpasses/underpasses and 7 grade crossings. I also worked on the Baytown Branch outside of Houston, In the first 18 miles there are 31 grade crossings on the main track and "4" bridges, counting roads (those 4 bridges are actually 18 structures when you count all the bridges associated with the interstate highways, their frontage roads and ramps). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Perhaps you could find an incident of comparable severity in the UK, i.e. in this case, after a level crossing incident which involved a passenger train derailment and associated damage to some 200 metres of track and signalling equipment, could Network Rail/Railtrack have managed to have the whole show back up and running in about 18 hours. (This incident occurred Monday afternoon, with the line back in service Tuesday morning) I think we'd be hard pushed to do it in these enlightened times, so all credit to the US company concerned. Not sure about Lockington but Hixon was a pretty nasty one in 1968. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2012 [/i] The figures I found said there were over 11,500 grade crossings in Texas. I would be willing to bet you could easily find a couple thousand over or under passes just in the cities of Houston, Dallas and Ft Worth. So yes, I think the state of Texas has as many crossings and overpasses as the UK. Easily. OK. Welcome to Texas. I worked at Lloyd Yard, Spring, Texas and within two mile radius of the yard there were 7 overpasses/underpasses and 7 grade crossings. I also worked on the Baytown Branch outside of Houston, In the first 18 miles there are 31 grade crossings on the main track and "4" bridges, counting roads (those 4 bridges are actually 18 structures when you count all the bridges associated with the interstate highways, their frontage roads and ramps). Doing a bit of further delving I have now found some NR figures - they have a total of 11,146 overbridges on their asset register and while this includes aqueducts and railway over railway bridges it suggests the total number of road overbridges is somewhat more than 8,000. NR has a total of 23, 981 underbridges but a significant number of these will be river crossings - the road total is probably similar to that for overbridges. Incidentally I didn't include London Underground network as I couldn't find any figures but it also has significant numbers of underbridges and overbridges on its above surface lines although some of them will be included in the Network Rail totals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Once again, its a matter of scale. We probably have more crossings and overpasses in the state of Texas than there are crossings and overpasses in all of the UK. US railroads do actively seek to close crossings and build overpasses, but the overpass construction is the responsibility of the state or federal government, not the RR. And they often don't want to shell out the several million dollars per overpass cost. Sorry - I was being facetious. Didn't intend to start a 'who's got more' argument. I was trying to make the point that NEW HIGH SPEED LINES are normally built with bridges, not grade crossings. Obviously didn't come across the way it was intended. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 This is why I hate level crossings - you can't trust either motorists or even pedestrians to do the sensible, safe thing. About a week ago I nearly had two teenage girls under my train on a protected crossing at Unanderra. The gates were down, the lights and bells were working, my train was lit up like a Christmas tree, but when I gave them a serve about their stupidity they still claimed they "didn't seeyaz cummin". Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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