RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am finally looking to get my Mitchell 43xx running and have started looking for a motor and gearbox The instructions aren't much help (recommending a porterscap) All my other stock is having mashima and high level box, I have a 1430 and a roadrunner box, but as the motor needs to be mounted perpendicular to the axel in the firebox this wont fit The gearbox included in the collet goods chassis looks ideal, but I couldn't see it listed seperatly As such I was interested to hear other options With the mashima motor is it possible to cut off the second end of the drive shaft to get more space (there's definitely no space for a flywheel) Now to get some wheels ordered (hoping the gibsons have the crankpin holes drilled...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 I think Comet do a chassis for the 43xx and their instructions would recommend a Mashima and a Comet gearbox suitable.Obviously being a Mitchell kit makes a difference. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/modules/viewcategory.php/Locomotive%20Chassis%20Packs%20and%20Components Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Whisper it not, but Greedy Gostude has a Mitchell 43xx on eBay, priced at about £180 at the moment. Pity it's been built in "OO" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Branchlines is worth a look. I mounted one of their 40:1 gearboxes perpendicularly into the firebox of my 45XX tank in 3mm (Mashima 9/16)- they do an overlay with the combinations on clear plastic to place over the drawing to see if it will fit- Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 20, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 I took a bit of a gamble on mine (which was from ebay), still not at all sure the chassis will work..... Just found another mashima 14:26 and what I think is a 12:25 that I think came out of a black beetle, struggling to remove the worms from it, but if successful the latter will go nicely in my 58xx I think (and save a few quid...) edit: to correct spelling, and that the first worm has now been successfully removed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 Would the roadrunner with the 12/24 fit on the rear axle with the motor vertical in the firebox? how is the kit configured, will there be room? Print out the High Level gearbox planner, draw on the motor on the gearbox you're trying cut it out and have a try. (Please note, I'm not trying to encourage the modelling of the GWR, just helping a fellow modeller... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2012 Would the roadrunner with the 12/24 fit on the rear axle with the motor vertical in the firebox? how is the kit configured, will there be room? Print out the High Level gearbox planner, draw on the motor on the gearbox you're trying cut it out and have a try. Rather than the basic RoadRunner, can you use the RoadrunnerPlus? Its the same box with the final drive on a swinging link so it can fold back under the motor. Have you checked the SlimLiner? Its the same as the Roadrunner, but quite a bit narrower. Useful if it has to go through a slot in bottom of the boiler, far less visible. All the best, Dave. PS Mitchel kits date from the period when the Portescap RG4 was THE motor of choice. They still turn up, but go for very silly prices on ebay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 20, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 I hadnt noticed the difference between the two types of road runner, and looking again I think I can see the swing link on the one I have (which as soon as I can get a new drive axle for it will be going in a 45xx chassis along with the 14:26) Thankfully the kit came with the full instructions (including the all important drawings) so once I've made up the current gearbox I will overlay it on the drawing and see how it fits. As an aside, Having now removed the worm from one end of the 12:24, Ive laid that up against the 58xx body. Given that I have added the lower boiler (and the missing middle section of the tank ends), along with the boiler back head, there is not much space in there for the motor (and the second shaft of the 12:24 will not fit. I am assuming that clamping one end into a vice and quickly chopping the other off with the dremmel would be the best course of action. Is there a preference as to which end should be chopped? I'd have thought (based on experience of black beetle powered multiple units) that it would be a bit gutless, certainly too much so for the 43xx, but should be ideally suited to a loco like my 58xx (and the 14xx that will follow it) in that its only every going to need to haul a very small load. Thanks for the help so far, just hope Revision doesnt get in the way too much and prevent me from making progress! (Still, thankfully after these 3 exams CIMA will be nearly done!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Clamping the shaft in vice jaws is good for heat sinking. Put a little water on the shaft and vice jaws. Thin cutting disc at maximum rotational rate should go through very fast. I have always lopped off the shaft the other end from the brush tags, never had the slightest trouble with the motors thereafter. The reason for not cutting the shaft at the brush end is that it makes the job easier when you open the motor up to fit new brush carbons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have always lopped off the shaft the other end from the brush tags, never had the slightest trouble with the motors thereafter. The reason for not cutting the shaft at the brush end is that it makes the job easier when you open the motor up to fit new brush carbons. But there aren't any fixing holes for mounting the gearbox at the brush end. edit - you don't need to take Mashima motors to bits to change the brushes, just undo the brass screws. Never needed to change any anyway. second edit - if it's a High Level gearbox you won't get the worm off anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted October 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2012 Clamping the shaft in vice jaws is good for heat sinking. Put a little water on the shaft and vice jaws. Thin cutting disc at maximum rotational rate should go through very fast. I have always lopped off the shaft the other end from the brush tags, never had the slightest trouble with the motors thereafter. The reason for not cutting the shaft at the brush end is that it makes the job easier when you open the motor up to fit new brush carbons. On most Mashimas the gearbox fits on the opposite end to the brush tags, so you need to cut off the shaft at the brush end. However you cut it, dont let heat build up in the shaft, as you can melt the plastic bearing mountings. (Don't ask how I know this......) Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I also lop the unwanted shaft off the brush end of Mashimas, but prefer more gentle methods than cutting discs. Even if they were fully sealed, I'd be wary of getting all that abrasive dust anywhere near a motor, not to mention the rapid heat generation. I normally put a bit of grease or tacky wax around where the shaft emerges from the bearing, and cover this with masking tape. That way, any swarf is caught and can be cleaned off with no fear of it getting into the bearings. The shafts are quite hard, but can be cut with a fine saw blade, e.g. piercing saw. As others have mentioned, take your time as even a saw can generate a lot of heat. As to mounting the motor vertically, here's an example using a High Level Road Road Runner 54:1 and a Mashima 1220. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have two Mitchell 43XX in my wall of death, and looked a little while back at motor and gears. Using the High level gearbox outlines, a Road runner 54:1 with a Mashima 1420 seemed to fit. I brought this and subsequent overlaying on the frames suggests it might be ok. Horsetan, you mentioned a 43XX for sale on Ebay - have you seen the enormous stash of southern locos listed? They are listed as EM or P4... but not sure which! Craig W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 Its always best to leave a couple of mm on for two reasons, first to avoid damage to the bearings and second if you need to turn the motor manually you can fit a pin Chuck on it. I usually cut them off with some massive side cutters, cupping the motor in one hand and pointing the shaft into something soft (not the dog though...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ...I usually cut them off with some massive side cutters... Your side cutters must have unusually hard blades, Paul. I tried that once with some largish ones (blades about an inch long) of reasonable quality and just put a dent in the blades Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 Nick, don't know what make but they came from an Army surplus sale, there's no dents in them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ...Horsetan, you mentioned a 43XX for sale on Ebay - have you seen the enormous stash of southern locos listed? They are listed as EM or P4... but not sure which! Seen 'em. Luck of the draw as to which gauge they actually are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 21, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks again for the advice, built the HL box I already had today and it fits, will get it on the drawing later to work out motor sizes Only problem is the bearings on the chassis are too wide meaning the gear box won't fit between them So looks like I will have to either file 1mm off each side or unsolder and replace Think I will try the former first to avoid having to strip the paint... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 You'll be ok filing them off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 21, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 You'll be ok filing them off. Glad to hear it, will get the files out tonight and get it sorted. Along with a test run against the 1:1 scale drawing to see if the 14:26 will fit. I presume the overriding principle is to get a big a motor fitted as possible (for now it is only going to have to haul a max of 4 coaches, or a similar length of wagons, but I want it capable of any future requirements) Just need to get some wheels ordered now, though need to know if the Gibsons are the horrid drill your own type or come with pre drilled crank pins, if the former then its going to be a long wait for some Ultrascales! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 I've never had any un-drilled Gibsons, perhaps best to ask Colin first. Hope this is going to turn into a build thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 21, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 The set I got for a 45xx last year needed drilling, but that was the first experience of it Emailed Gibson earlier so should hear more soon Also after checking the drawing I think a 20mm motor will be needed, however once I get the clearances sorted I am going to try and fit the 14:24 just in case I can get something bigger in. Photos etc will be included once the bits arrive (whenever that is) My fiancée is getting me a HL 14xx chassis as a late birthday present, so will get a motor ordered then if necessary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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