Great Central Railway Class 9P (LNER B3) Valour

[t-b-g]

Well, encouraged by one or two of the good folk on RMWeb, I have been pursuaded that it is time I put something on here.

 

"Valour" has been a project that has been in the back of my mind for quite a few years now. My main inspiration is a wonderful photo of a B3 storming out of Kings Cross in George Dow's "Great Central Album". The photo is not of Valour herself but is of one of the three members of the class with the side window cabs.

 

I don't build many locos and have scratchbuilt only a few, mostly little tank engines. This will be my first big loco scratchbuild, although I don't expect it will be any different, just more of it.

 

What prompted me to start was the discovery in my junk box of a part built Ks "Sam Fay" (LNER B2). This came to me as part of a job lot from somebody converting to 7mm. I had never really gone through the box properly until a few weeks ago and finding the "Sam Fay" was a little bit exciting. Instead of the Ks wheels and motor, she had Sharman wheels and an early Portescap, from the days before they went a bit noisy.

 

The B2 and B3 shared a good number of common parts and I decided that if I dismantled the Ks model I could re-use the coupling rods, wheels and motor, along with the boiler, smokebox and firebox. These would be filed back to a basic shape and new detail applied.

 

The frames, footplate, cab and all other parts will be from scratch. The have been discussions on here about what constitutes scratchbuilding and what is a kit conversion and I don't want to open that can of worms again, so I will say that I am using a grand total of 7 parts from the Ks kit and will be making the rest. As there is no kit available for the B3 I am happy that it is a scratchbuild incorporating some Ks components.

 

For drawings, I have the John Edgeson (Isinglass) drawing in 4mm scale, plus one from Nick Campling, which appeared in the Railway Modeller, as well as a GA, hich is reproduced in the Johnson book on Great Central Locomotives. That is shrunk down to fit a page but is printed well and dimensions can be read with a good eyeglass.

 

Some initial steps have been made, starting with the frames (it is NOT a chassis!!!) and the bogie.

 

A copy of the Isinglass drawing was cut up and stuck to a double thickness of metal using Pritt stick. The basic shapes were then cut out with a piercing saw. Further copies were cut for the beam and spring on the bogie and these parts were also cut out.

 

The GCR bogie has beams and springs on the outside, along with axleboxes, so I put 2mm top hat bearings in from the inside and then added blocks of brass to represent the real boxes.

 

I hope nobody expects rapid progress or a showcase model. I tend to leave off detail that is not too visible, like the individual leaves of the bogie springs. This is 4mm scale and such things are virtually invisble on the finished model. This will be very much a working loco and will need to be able to haul 8 carriages when it is finished.

 

A couple of photos of the bogie and main frames, still with the paper drawing attached. The axle holes were drilled using the Ks coupling rods as a guide. The centres do not match the drawing exactly but the rods are close enough for me not to worry about it!

 

Anyway, the project is up and running and I will hopefully keep the thread updated as things develop.......

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Tony,

I shall be very intrigued to watch this for I too, simply love this loco! It is the frontispiece (first picture!) in one of my GCR books and just looks wonderful.

Anyway, you've made a good start there, keep going!

Cheers,

John E.

[t-b-g]

Thanks John,

 

There is certainly something about the loco that makes my pulse quicken!

 

I should have added that she will be in full GCR livery, in "as built" condition. That will be a challenge in itself.....

[Worsdell forever]

Looking good already Tony, GCR 4-6-0s really do have a massive presence, only the L&Y ones came close to them.

 

So you're not going to build it at the same speed as you build layouts then?

[Earlswood Nob]

Hiya everyone,

WOW I am goping to follow this with interest. The B3's were a interesting loco with the massive front end and the unusual slide bar arrangement.

Well done

Earlswood Nob

[N15class]

The bogie looks very impressive. Using drawings is a good way of marking out the parts. You just need to watch the loco does not grow by leaving to much line on each part. It is also worth checking your photo copies are all the same, some copiers have a habit of not doing them consistantly.

 

Keep up the good work. I do not know the prototype so am watching with interest.

[Pebbles]

I hope this helps; John drew his drawings to 4mm indeed his 7mm drawing were merely enlargements. I enlarge the sections of the 4mm drawings I need to twice size, copy onto tracing paper using a hard shape pencil and then print copies reduced to 4mm this gives a much sharper line to follow. Need I say check sizes before cutting.

[Poggy1165]

A proper engine!

 

I used to have a Valour in 4mm scale - I often wonder who has her now.

[t-b-g]

I hope this helps; John drew his drawings to 4mm indeed his 7mm drawing were merely enlargements. I enlarge the sections of the 4mm drawings I need to twice size, copy onto tracing paper using a hard shape pencil and then print copies reduced to 4mm this gives a much sharper line to follow. Need I say check sizes before cutting.

 

Thanks for the tips.

 

I did check the sizes of the copies before I cut metal. There are enough dimensions on the drawings to allow that in both directions.

 

A good friend, who was trained in Doncaster Plant Works drawing office, was always most impressed that John produced his drawings "actual size" in 4mm scale. I only use the technique for complex parts with lots of curves and odd shapes. It saves an age in marking out. For Valour, the only other parts I can think of that might be done that way are the cab sides and the casting around the front of the slidebars and possibly the valances. The slidebar casting is an interesting are on the loco and I haven't really got my head around how I will be doing that bit yet although I have one or two ideas.

 

I do have a lathe and a milling machine (got them several years ago and used them about once each) but I am not experienced at machining. I do have a couple of good friends who are though.......

 

Except that would be cheating!

 

I did see a rather complex arrangement which was done for the very similar B7 but that had a lot of bits in it and was rather over complex for my simple brain!

 

I managed to use the milling machine as a pillar drill to do the axle holes in the bogie and the main frames, so I know the wheelbase is correct to the coupling rods. I put a 1mm hole in one axle centre, put a brass pin in it, then laid the coupling rod over the pin and used that to space the other two holes. These were then opened out using the dials on the milling machine to ensure the spacing was maintained as the holes were enlarged.

 

Hopefully I will get a few hours on her tomorrow, when I may do some more to the frames.

 

It is strange but all I see when I look at the enlarged photo of the bogie is the slight misalignmet of the rivets and the out of square bottom edge of the box under the spring. Then I look at the real bogie and such errors are not visible to the naked eye, so they will remain as they are! Somebody once said that I was too much of a perfectionist but they just didn't realise how much I get away with!!

 

A proper engine!

 

I used to have a Valour in 4mm scale - I often wonder who has her now.

 

A rare beast! Do you have any photos of her?

[Horsetan]

....I hope nobody expects rapid progress or a showcase model........

 

But for those who do, look at what might be on the way.....

[t-b-g]

But for those who do, look at what might be on the way.....

 

I knew about that, although I hadn't been aware of the timescale until today. It was one of the reasons I started now as the release of a good quality kit would have rendered my project dead in the water. I may have to have a second loco when the kit comes out as I actually prefer the alternative cab with the cut out side. I did toy with doing that version and calling it Valour but I reckoned that somebody might notice.

 

I also see the D9 on the upcoming kits list. That is a must, especially if it can be constructed as built, before the boiler was raised.

 

The D9, as built, is probably my favourite loco in terms of sheer poetry of design. Absolutely everything about it is in exactly the right place! And there are people around who think that a Thompson Pacific looks good, pah!

 

Sadly my session on Valour today didn't happen. I ended up helping a friend get some carriages ready for an exhibition and spent the day weathering 9 bogie carriages instead. I did say progress wouldn't be rapid!

[mikemeg]

But for those who do, look at what might be on the way.....

 

And if it is anywhere near as good as his B4, which I've just begun, then it will be well worth waiting for.

 

To t-b-g a slight cautionary (though not intentionally disparaging) note; good as the Isinglass drawings are, the drawings and their associated dimensions can differ by small amounts. Each, perhaps, not significant in and of itself but they can compound. So may be more advisable to use the prototype dimensions, scale down for 4 mm and then measure very accurately, to mark out major components as an alternative to using the drawing, or parts of it, as a template.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[billbedford]

And if it is anywhere near as good as his B4, which I've just begun, then it will be well worth waiting for.

 

I look forward to seeing a blow by blow account of building this one…………..

[mikemeg]

I look forward to seeing a blow by blow account of building this one…………..

 

All in good time, Bill. I can say that the instructions are extremely comprehensive.

 

Mike

[t-b-g]

And if it is anywhere near as good as his B4, which I've just begun, then it will be well worth waiting for.

 

To t-b-g a slight cautionary (though not intentionally disparaging) note; good as the Isinglass drawings are, the drawings and their associated dimensions can differ by small amounts. Each, perhaps, not significant in and of itself but they can compound. So may be more advisable to use the prototype dimensions, scale down for 4 mm and then measure very accurately, to mark out major components as an alternative to using the drawing, or parts of it, as a template.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Again, thanks for the tip off.

 

I am using a combination of three drawings, sources as in my OP. This allows me to check dimensions properly.

 

I am not relying on cutting out parts in that way, or on any one drawing, for anything too critical!

 

For parts with compound radius curves, where the size and shape is more difficult to mark out (such as the frames), I am happy using the drawings in this way. If anybody wants to tell me that my frames are 0.5mm out, then I won't lose any sleep over it as they are all but invisible on the finished loco.

 

For things like the cab side sheets, I will mark out the main dimensions on the GA. I will then use one of he 4mm drawings (probably the Campling one as the lines are a bit clearer) to give me window and curve positions. The Campling drawing looks about right to me and if my loco looks like that drawing I will be well pleased. The Isinglass drawing has, as has been pointed out, some rather thick and "wooly" lines in that area.

 

So taking dimensions off drawings and transferring them to metal will, to my mind, only introduce an extra stage in the marking out and a possibility of errors creeping in.

 

Any rectangular or square parts will be scribed directly onto metal, previously coloured with a marker pen.

 

As I said, my intention is to go for a pragmatic approach. Where bits really matter to how the loco looks or works, I will take my time and do my best to do a good job. Where things are less critical, or less visible, I will happily take a short cut or two!

[Horsetan]

...I look forward to seeing a blow by blow account of building this one…………..

 

Mmm, and doubtless quite a few people will be looking forward to seeing your written apology to John Bateson thereafter. People don't forget, you know.